How much -KB is enough?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2009-08-27 23:10 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Most mobs do knockdown, not knockback, so even a single point of KB resist will stop things like Earthquake. A single -KB IO is plenty for most explosions and melee attacks. The real nasties are force or energy attacks, like Nemesis' staff blast. I think one or two grenade type powers are pretty high magnitude too. But really, one -KB IO and you'll be knocked down so seldom that it comes as a real surprise when it does happen.
Also, I believe most of the few things that can knock you back through one IO can do so through two or maybe even three... I believe Force Bolt and the Nemesis Staff blast (the real one, not what players get) are up in the teens or even twenties on KB magnitude but I'm not 100% sure. I've only used a single IO or a single Kinetic Crash set (which I know they can overcome) or a Scrapper / Tank / Brute KB protection power (which can't be overcome by anything).
Checking Mids, I see that Force Bolt and Power Thrust are in the mid to high teens on magnitude. Hurricane is just over 8 for a Defender, but in my experience mob Hurricane isn't that high (and besides, it repels no matter how much -KB you have) and Gale is just over 10. I'd say 12 points will stop everything but Power Thrust, Force Bolt, and similar attacks (like Nemesis' blast), and dropping all the way down to 4 will only open you up to a few pretty rare attacks like Gale. Hand Clap might also knock you back with one, but really you have to ask yourself if being knocked down a couple times per hour at worst is worth freeing up two slots... because that's as bad as I can remember it being on my squishies or my Fire / Fire Tanker (who uses a single -KB IO and does fine).
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
My Spines/Fire only has 4 points of KB protection and he is fine most of the time. 8 points should be enough for most situations.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Rikti Pylons do mag12 KB.
-8 doesn't protect you from the AVs that have lots of KB (Nem, Mary MacComber and whatever custom nasties AE authors thought up) and Rikti Pylons.
Anything else, including non-AV Nem staff and, even, IIRC, Ballistas can't get through it, although I'm not that sure about the latter.
Some higher-level bosses can get through -4 protection, but not really that many.
Mag -4 is enough for 95% of the knock effects you will be exposed to in the game.
In those situations where mag -4 is not enough 95% of the time mag -8 is not enough either. (Nemesis Force bolt is mag 10)
Mag -12 will cover you in all most all but the most extreme situations. Hami does mag 12 KB (ie: with mag -12 you'll get knocked down) and wave 10 Mary Macomber will do mag 12 if you are standing in her hurricane and you get hit by gale and thunderstorm at the same time.
A few other things in the game will exceed mag 12 (Scirocco is one of them)
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I slotted a single -KB IO on my fire brute, and I never really noticed any since.
Occasionally you'll come across an AV that'll manage a knockdown on you, but its so seldom the slots are better served elsewhere.
Quote:
I believe BAB's KO Blow exceeds 12, as do the UXBs during Rikti raids (or the exploding grates on the mothership)
|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
A few other things in the game will exceed mag 12 (Scirocco is one of them)
|
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
I seem to recall from the dim and distant past, that Bombing runs during Rikti invasions (and a UXB that gets a little too healthy while you're stood next to it) are unresistable KB, and it doesn't matter how much -KB you've got, you'll get sent flying.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I believe BAB's KO Blow exceeds 12, as do the UXBs during Rikti raids (or the exploding grates on the mothership)
|
I'm playing an endurance monster of a Dark/Stone tanker atm, and while I bought 3 Steadfast -KB recipes, I've only used 2 so far, and frankly I've not been knocked up, down or sideways since. I'm keeping the 3rd one for later, since as other people have mentioned, later in the game, there's some higher grade KB to deal with.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
As said, one -KB IO is enough for the vast majority of KB. The way I've heard it put; get one, or get three KB IOs; two IOs don't protect you from much if anything that just one IO doesn't, and eats an extra slot.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I did have 1 Karma and one 3 stedfasts on my main /DA but droped it down to one of each at my last respec.
As said above though there is very little stuff in the 4-12 mag KB so one will do most of the time and 4 was deffinately overkill.
I put 8 points of KB protection on both my fire and my dark armor tankers. This seems to be more than enough to serve in that role.
For a scrapper, one may be enough.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
UXBs and raid bombs also seem to be unresistable. I have no idea what mag it is - it will send someone with mag 13 proection flying.
|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I believe BAB's KO Blow exceeds 12, as do the UXBs during Rikti raids (or the exploding grates on the mothership)
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I hear Hamidon has unresistable KB attacks as well. Enough to send a rooted Granite tanker flying anyway.
Quote:
Knockback from Hamidon is resisted.
|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
I hear Hamidon has unresistable KB attacks as well. Enough to send a rooted Granite tanker flying anyway.
|
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
That's not correct. The problem there is that Granite has mag 10 protection with no resistance. You need more than mag 12 protection if you have no resistance.|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
I hear Hamidon has unresistable KB attacks as well. Enough to send a rooted Granite tanker flying anyway.
|
I have characters with mag 10, 10,000% resistance who are fine, and characters with mag 13 protection who are fine. The latter are very occasionally knocked back if they are double-tapped with a mito attack, but that's it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
You guys are awesome. I decided to just stick a Blessing -KB into SJ and call it good. I love this community. 
Quote:
Rikti bombs will do that during invasions. I distinctly remember one blowing up next to my stone tank and winding up on the roof of the neighboring building.
|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
I hear Hamidon has unresistable KB attacks as well. Enough to send a rooted Granite tanker flying anyway.
|
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Quote:
amazingly, i have -13 on my kin/energy defender. 3 kinetic crashes and a -KB protection. now if only I could do enough damage to solo the darn thing... im a sad kinetic defender |
Originally Posted by Ethric
Rikti Pylons do mag12 KB.
|
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Quote:
You can shut Mary down with sleeps. They're not always there, but there it is. Just an FYI to the unknowing |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Mag -4 is enough for 95% of the knock effects you will be exposed to in the game.
In those situations where mag -4 is not enough 95% of the time mag -8 is not enough either. (Nemesis Force bolt is mag 10) Mag -12 will cover you in all most all but the most extreme situations. Hami does mag 12 KB (ie: with mag -12 you'll get knocked down) and wave 10 Mary Macomber will do mag 12 if you are standing in her hurricane and you get hit by gale and thunderstorm at the same time. A few other things in the game will exceed mag 12 (Scirocco is one of them) |
@MARTy McFly
There is no such thing as "Enough Knockback"
EDIT: misread the thread title, and while there can be enough -KB, the main point of my post still stands.
Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"
I always go for 2. The 5th column grenades will blow through one and send you flying, often knockback locking you to death even with 1. So I like the extra security, but you can probably get by with 1 for most things.
If you think 12 -KB is overkill, how about acrobatics with 2 lvl 50 KB IOs...2 lvl 30 Karma -KB IOs, and 3 full sets of Kinetic Crash IO set for a grand total of 29 protection versus KB...rotflmao
On my Energy-Energy Blaster, I can stand in front of a Energy / FF Warden and laugh as his Repulsion Field tries it's hardest to knock me back or down. As he does so, I hit him with Power Thrust which is at 45 mag KB...then hit him with Power Push which is at 36 mag KB. Can anyone say "Punting for that extra point" lmao
Quote:
I think Rikti bombs do Repel (maybe repel AND kb.) Almost nobody has repel resistance.
|
Originally Posted by Barata
Rikti bombs will do that during invasions. I distinctly remember one blowing up next to my stone tank and winding up on the roof of the neighboring building.
|
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I'm shuffling slots and powers around on my spines/fire scrapper to add Blaze Mastery stuff, and I'm wondering: how much -KB is enough? I've currently got 3 -KB IOs (2 Steadfast Protection and one Blessing of the Zephyr) for 12 points. Is 8 enough? Can I save a slot that way? Can I save 2, even? How much KB do mobs do, anyway?