Notes on new team difficulty settings
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:02 in The Market and Inventions
Hello All been playing for a little over 4 years but this is the first time i've found something I could give some input on so I finally logged on to the forums.
I don't have any of the tracking programs
Virtue-MAP outdoor-runined-o1a the save warrior clans village mission
1st run solo -0 x6 No/No
12 Drops
9 common
3 set
Bloodmandate: A/D
Damp spirits: to hit buff
Sovereign Right: acc
2nd run solo -0 x6 No/No
14 Drops
10 Common
4 Set
Glimpse abyss: e/Fear
Red Fort: E/Rch
Springfoot: Jump/End
Rope -a-dope A/E
3rd run-0 x6 no/no
I loaded and mapped it out then invited my 2nd acc to doorsit so I could keep it with no bosses
Main Acc
7 Drops
6 Common
1 Set Undermined Def: Def Debuff
Lvl 50 doorsitter
3 Drops
2 Common
1 Airburst
4th Run everything the same preloaded again
Main
6 Drops
5 Common
Emfeeb Op: A/E
Lvl 37 Doorsitter
5 Drops
4 Common
Nighmare E/fear
Total Drops :47 Est on Defeats 1400
Now I have been getting pretty much the same results every since I 16 came out about 9-12 drops per run. I ran in sg mode tonight. There were about 27 mobs per run so I would say about 350 defeats per run.
I think I am spot on with what they should be. I'll change missions and chars to see if I get the same.
This is very preliminary and based on a tiny (344) number of mobs.
I logged into Test tonight and changed my global name from @Wyrm to @Earth Wyrm.
I then re-logged so that when I logged in, any initial seeding was done with my new global name.
I then ran the same bloody Abyss map I've run until my brain wants to bleed with my brute, who averages around 3 recipes/run for the 344 mobs.
I got 8 recipes. This is the highest number I've gotten on that map with that character since I16 Beta started. It's still below the expected of 11.2, but is probably (almost certainly) within margin of error for that sample size. I need to run it again tomorrow to see if it was just a fluke. Will report back yea or nay when I know something further.
Edited to add: I couldn't sleep because of the idea that I might have found something. So I logged back in to Test. Run #2 with the new global name, on the same map, with 344 mobs defeated, yielded ZERO recipe drops. If the problem is tied to global names, it's tied in a way that the change I made probably didn't alter.
My initial reaction to the first map after changing my global? That was a perception issue. I'll do a couple more runs tomorrow to have enough data to feel confident that nothing has changed.
/wrist
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I didn't bring any hard data but I just solo'd from lvl 24 to 29 in dark astoria (no patrol xp) I got 8 recipies, 3 were uncommon 5 were common, salvage drops where plentiful at 192 (I did kill some mobs with full salvage)
Quote:
Short answer: No. It will identify the rank of some low level mobs correctly and leave the others out of the drop rate calculation.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
So I was looking at this drop stats script that's been put together, and I noticed that the page says that it won't work very well for characters that aren't level 50 - it will fail the heuristic rank check. Does this mean that it won't be able to identify the rank of enemy mobs at all?
|
Long answer:
The vast majority of mobs can only have one rank. For example, Centurions are always lieutenants and Legionarii are always minions. As long as these mobs are listed in mobTypes.txt then DropStats will identify their rank. Lots of low level mobs haven't been added yet and will show up as "unknowns". (You can add more mobs yourself, if you wish.)
Some mobs, such as Possessed Scientists, can have different ranks. The "heuristic rank check" tries to guess the rank based on the amount of inf you were awarded. It only knows about level 50 inf awards so it will always fail at lower levels. (or if the mob was damaged etc.) Incidentally, DropStats doesn't know what level you're fighting at so it will do a heuristic rank check even if the two ranks only ever occur at different levels.
The latest version of will DropStats excludes mobs and their drops from the drop rate calculation unless it can identify their rank. So the drop rates will be accurate but might not include all the mobs you defeated.
In case anyone's wondering, the tallies for salvage and recipes etc are always correct, irrespective of level.
At some point, I'll add the low level mob types to mobTypes.txt. If anyone wants to do this for me and send me their file then I'll be delighted to include their changes in the next release.
Quote:
Just to clarify... |
Originally Posted by AgentMountaineer
Hmmm...so I changed from being in SG mode and noticed my rates are a lot lower...though i think this is an issue with DropStats (I know you're working on it, Archie)...not a bug in CoX.
|
I'm 99% sure that SG mode doesn't affect the accuracy of the drop rate calculation. It does affect the number of mobs whose ranks can be identified with the heuristic rank check though.
The next release of DropStats will take account of SG mode and so will identify more mobs.
Quote:
<PIMP MODE ON>|
Originally Posted by Joe_Blow
I would gladly do the instance 20-30 more times for a consistency check, but I need a program to track these things instead of clearing inventory after every pass. I want to know the exact kill/drop ratio, and what rank of mob dropped what IO recipe. Is there a parser program for combat logs, or will I need to make one?
|
Yes there is. Try Drop Stats. It counts your drops, separates defeats by rank and calculates your drop rates.
It also washes dishes and leads to world peace.
</PIMP MODE OFF>
You need to turn on chat logging to use it and you can run it against any chat log you happen to have. There's no need to leave it running in the background while you play.
The only real down side is that it doesn't work very well until you hit level 50 (see above) and you can't use it to calculate drop mates when you're on teams.
Enjoy!
For reasons unknown herostats hates vista and I can't get perl to work. The latest version I downloaded says it won't work with my processor(2.56 core2 duo). Then when I downloaded an older version it doesn't run dropstats even though I'm giving the correct directory.
Ohh well, I'll just try to get herostats and vista to cooperate I suppose.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Three Gville papers
level +1 (x8 players) AV
Defeat Fiction Purple 4-4-3 and guards
Defeat Mesanis and guards
Defeat Rain Purple 8-7-7 and guards
Code:
this part:---------------------------------- Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.3.1 http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/ ---------------------------------- Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1.02% 4 6-18 391 minion equivalents Salvage 3.21% 12 20-41 374 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 301 rewarding mobs defeated 48 bosses and elite bosses 34 lieutenants 179 minions 40 rewarding mobs of unknown rank Fiction Purple 4-4-3 (1) Mesanis (1) Rain Purple 8-7-7 (1) Behemoth Overlord (20) failed heuristic rank check Gunslinger (17) failed heuristic rank check 2 pets and 0 greys 307 inf/debt rewards 1467480 inf 287305 debt 19025 prestige 7 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats) 3 uncommon and rare recipes Aegis: Resistance (Recipe) Air Burst: Acc/Dam (Recipe) Springfoot: Jump (Recipe) 4 common recipes 15 salvage 1 rare 3 uncommon 11 common 6 single origin enhancements 150 inspirations (5 tier 3, 53 tier 2, 92 tier 1, 0 special) 0 other drops
(Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.)
means that the table is not quite accurate?
Quote:
I don't have Vista but possibly you need to have it running in Admin mode. I also have issues with the last release, it would toggle from online to offline, I had to download the new unstable release in order for it to work.|
Originally Posted by Boomie
For reasons unknown herostats hates vista and I can't get perl to work. The latest version I downloaded says it won't work with my processor(2.56 core2 duo). Then when I downloaded an older version it doesn't run dropstats even though I'm giving the correct directory.
Ohh well, I'll just try to get herostats and vista to cooperate I suppose. |
Good luck
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Sorry if this has been answered before, but before I started running DropStats I wanted one clarification...
So let's say I take my psuedo-farmer out for a spin--do I need to change her difficulty to include bosses to get an accurate reading? Or will DropStats count the lts as lts, not bosses?
Quote:
I was going to comment this morning that over 5 hours of hammering enemies yielded me a whopping 5 recipes total. Then I changed to some characters I hadn't played in a while and got 5 recipes in 30 minutes. Both of them were on the default +0/1 hero setting while the other was on +0/3 heroes setting.|
Originally Posted by AgentMountaineer
Hmmm...so I changed from being in SG mode and noticed my rates are a lot lower...
I'm going to alternate the next few nights between being in and out of SG mode and see if that doesn't yield any differences. Anybody else is more than welcome to join me in seeing if this isn't the cause of the borked recipe drop rates. Salvage still seems to be raining from the sky. |
But the two were also in SG mode while the one with so few drops was not.
Being told it was a perception issue is somewhat offensive at this point especially at the number of posts by people with hard numbers.
I'm just going to go play new lowbies who cannot get recipes any way until this is resolved.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I couldn't get HeroStats running for me last night, so no data from me. I'll keep mucking about with it over the weekend and hopefull have some data to post by the end.
Sorry. =(
A (very small) bit of new data, running the same Unai Kemen/Nemesis mission that I did the first two runs on. Two more runs, one with 2 recipes dropped, another with 3. This is for a map with @90 minions per. (Being a warshade, I tend to get some variation in terms of how many Voids get spawned randomly)
So far, of the 4 runs I've done of this mission, there was one outlier, and the other 3 all appear quite normal, recipe wise. I have noticed, however, that out of the 4 runs (approx 360 minions total), I've had ONE enhancement drop. Does anyone know what the droprate on these are supposed to be? Do they drop from minions at all, or only LTs and above?
On another toon running teamed missions for a couple hours last night, I had to empty my enhancement tray a couple times, plus having slotted/deleted a large handful along the way, so that character seemed to be getting a "normal" rate of ENH drops. Just a related thought.
Once again, salvage drops seem quite normal, in fact on the Nemesis map, in 4 runs I've picked up 3 Chronal Skips, a Photonic Weapon and some other rare salvage.
I've been busy with regular teaming/playing/etc so I don't have a huge batch of data yet, by the end of the weekend, I should have a meaningful sample size to post the full data numbers from.
On a more general note regarding everyone's reaction to things. Am I upset that there definitely appears to be a bug in the system that's messing with recipe drops? No. Disappointed yes, upset no. This is a massively complex application with an incredible number of dependencies between different components, so bugs are inevitable. Heck, I'm not entirely certain I'm affected by this. Aside from some gut feelings with a pair of new characters rolled up since last Tuesday that "feel" like low recipe drop-rates, the only actual hard data that I have is showing basically expected recipe drops.
Am I upset that Synapse is requesting specific steps to replicate the issue? Again, no. I've been doing computer support for 18 years now. Having a set of steps to follow to replicate a reported problem is always one of the first things that I look for when I'm doing troubleshooting myself.
Do I think that Synapse lied when he said there was no change to the drop-rates to deal with farming? Heck no. I've yet to run across a situation with this development team has told us one thing while knowing that it isn't true. Have they been wrong about the existence of bugs/etc in the past, yes, have they flat out lied about an intentional change, no. Until they do, I'm always going to believe them when they say that no intended change has been put in place. (And no, I really don't expect to stop believing them, since I don't think they ever will lie about this sort of thing).
What I AM incredibly upset about is the apparently casual dismissal of the absolute mountains of data that several people have posted along the way on this issue with a "we're not seeing it, it's a perception problem."
What I can flat out say is that looking at the numbers being reported in this thread (several batches by people that I've known and played with for years now), there is definitely something very odd going on with the drop rates and/or the distribution of recipes (and likely enhancements as well), and that my "Perception" is that the development team doesn't feel like actually helping us to dig in and see what's going on. The raw number of trials that several people have posted here, along with meticulously tracked recipe drop rates should be more than enough to demonstrate to anyone looking at this that something is wrong. From everything that's been tracked/reported so far, it's obviously a very complex issue with some hidden cause that the players are not able to determine from the information that we can possibly have access to.
Synapse, please, we WANT to help you figure this out. Other than a set of steps to reproduce the issue (which given the apparently character and/or account related nature of things, players just cannot do) is there anything we can do in terms of info to be gathered or whatever to help you track this down? There have been at least two offers from people offering to have you join them to watch what happens during a mission. PLEASE take them up on this offer, don't wait until the players either are able to replicate circumstances beyond "every time I log in, this happens" which is obviously not what you're looking for. If it's left like that, eventually people are going to give up on it. And in this case, giving up would likely mean giving up on the game, not just trying to track the problem. If I find a character/mission/etc that I'm having issues with consistently, I'll be extending the same offer.
Task Force mode may be a factor in this problem.
Two days ago, I ran a Positron Task Force in a duo, and the recipe drops were a lot higher than I've seen since the issue went live; it felt like they were back to "normal". That got me thinking, maybe Synapse's runs were done in Ouroboros, which uses Task Force mode. So I hopped into my Archer and started the "A Hero's Hero" arc, where the first mission is against Chimera in an outdoor graveyard map. Here are the results:
Code:
Now, either I had an extremely good run, or drops in Task Force mode (which includes Ouroboros) are working as intended. This could explain why Synapse didn't see a problem, he may have gotten the mission ("first in the arc") from Ouroboros.---------------------------------- Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.3.1 http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/ ---------------------------------- Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 2.16% 17 13-31 786 minion equivalents Salvage 9.90% 63 38-65 637 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 564 rewarding mobs defeated 0 bosses and elite bosses 223 lieutenants 340 minions 1 rewarding mobs of unknown rank Chimera (1) 566 inf/debt rewards 1117157 inf 66000 debt 15050 prestige 17 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats) 5 uncommon and rare recipes Blessing of the Zephyr: Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range (Recipe) Essence of Curare: End/Hold (Recipe) Force Feedback : Knockback/Acc (Recipe) Pacing of the Turtle: Dam/Slow (Recipe) Thunderstrike: Dam/End (Recipe) 12 common recipes 63 salvage 2 rare 8 uncommon 53 common 9 single origin enhancements 233 inspirations (0 tier 3, 76 tier 2, 157 tier 1, 0 special) 0 other drops
Note: in order for the mobs to be recognized, I added this to mobTypes.txt:
Code:
# Chimera Minions Cockatrice, Lieutenants Basilisk, Gorgon,
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
Comparison run: this is the defeat all demons map from Harvey Maylor, which I had available on the same blaster, and ran immediately after the Chimera map; I only took time to unload the salvage and recipes in Wentworths.
Code:
No TF mode, drops are low again. I think I'm on to something.----------------------------------
Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.3.1
http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/
----------------------------------
Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs
--------------------------------------------------------
Pool A 1.17% 7 9-25 596 minion equivalents
Salvage 6.35% 31 29-53 488 minion equivalents
--------------------------------------------------------
(Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.)
(1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.)
435 rewarding mobs defeated
0 bosses and elite bosses
161 lieutenants
274 minions
435 inf/debt rewards
803537 inf
10646 prestige
7 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats)
2 uncommon and rare recipes
Mocking Beratement: Rech (Recipe)
Soaring: Endurance (Recipe)
5 common recipes
31 salvage
0 rare
1 uncommon
30 common
5 single origin enhancements
187 inspirations (0 tier 3, 69 tier 2, 118 tier 1, 0 special)
0 other drops
Note: in order for the mobs to be recognized, I added this to mobTypes.txt:
Code:
# Demons Minions Demon, Lieutenants Demon Lord, Demon Overlord,
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
My warshade has been in Ouroboros' mode only both before and after I16 running Unai's To Save a Thousand Worlds arc and it has been horrible since I16. So I don't think it is universally binary around that.
It is possible it interacts with it and can vary by character or login or some other feature.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Leandro
Task Force mode may be a factor in this problem.
|
Well, this would account for the fact that AE ticket drop rates do not seem to be affected.
If Synapse accessed the Abyss maps via Oro, that would also put him in TF mode, which would account for why he couldn't reproduce the problem...
Edit: Well, maybe not based on the report right above.
SwellGuy: that's why I said it "may be a factor". Never said the only factor
Another run in a regular mission, this time Save Warrior Clan's Village:
Code:
I'll next run in TF mode again and see what I get.----------------------------------
Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.3.1
http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/
----------------------------------
Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs
--------------------------------------------------------
Pool A 1.17% 7 9-25 598 minion equivalents
Salvage 9.17% 45 29-53 491 minion equivalents
--------------------------------------------------------
(Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.)
(1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.)
438 rewarding mobs defeated
0 bosses and elite bosses
160 lieutenants
278 minions
438 inf/debt rewards
804094 inf
10654 prestige
7 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats)
2 uncommon and rare recipes
Doctored Wounds: Recharge (Recipe)
Exploit Weakness: Dam/Rech (Recipe)
5 common recipes
45 salvage
2 rare
6 uncommon
37 common
7 single origin enhancements
199 inspirations (0 tier 3, 52 tier 2, 147 tier 1, 0 special)
0 other drops
Note: in order for the mobs to be recognized, I added this to mobTypes.txt:
Code:
# Battle Maiden Minions Champion of Mourning, Lieutenants Champion of Battle, Champion of War, Gen. Kantai, Yatima, Cpl. Jitoy, Gentay, Kolaga, Lt. Kentow,
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
That may indeed explain Synapse's POV.
OTOH, I've also accessed Abyss (on my Brute) via Ouro and have seen bugged drops still. (And yes, I realize these are two separate animals.)
I'll add the "Ouro factor" to my short list of conditions to test.
Has anyone tested with a toon that's *not* in an SG at all?
I can do so when I get home, but what I'd *really* like to do is...
1. quit SG
1a. re-log
1b. test
2. clear global friends list
2a. re-log
2b. test
3. xfer to new server
3a. test
Repeat Offenders
just completely random questions:
Is there anyway that the day job badge from oro would have anything to do with this since it has an effect on recipe drops?
Didn't this problem start about the time that badge/day job went live? Maybe? Maybe not?
edit, gonna check in on the sg thing. Iv'e seen a lot of "unknowns" running around without an sg. I'm wondering if the devs have already found it, fixed it, have it in a patch, and haven't told us yet.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Quote:
That Archer...|
Originally Posted by Leandro
Task Force mode may be a factor in this problem.
Two days ago, I ran a Positron Task Force in a duo, and the recipe drops were a lot higher than I've seen since the issue went live; it felt like they were back to "normal". That got me thinking, maybe Synapse's runs were done in Ouroboros, which uses Task Force mode. So I hopped into my Archer and started the "A Hero's Hero" arc... |
has it ever been server xfer'd?
has it ever been renamed?
has it ever belonged to an SG?
does it belongs to an SG now?
if so, does it run in SG mode?
does it have any other arcs open?
thanks!
Repeat Offenders
>has it ever been server xfer'd?
Nope. Always on Freedom.
>has it ever been renamed?
Nope. "Archer Leo", I'm not very original with names.
>has it ever belonged to an SG?
It joined my SG "Power of Illusion" before earning a single point of XP.
>does it belongs to an SG now?
Still in "Power of Illusion".
>if so, does it run in SG mode?
Always.
>does it have any other arcs open?
During the second run I had a mission from "A Hero's Hero" open in addition to the ongoing Harvey Maylor arc. For the third run I just had the "A Hero's Hero" mission since I'd completed Harvey's mission (but not the arc, I just didn't have another mission.)
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
Second run on TF mode: I can repeatably get the proper drop rate by running missions in TF mode. I actually left the mission prematurely (before all the mobs were defeated) because I ran out of recipe room.
Code:
----------------------------------
Archie Gremlin's Drop Stats v0.3.1
http://www.glasspaw.com/dropstats/
----------------------------------
Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs
--------------------------------------------------------
Pool A 2.46% 18 12-29 732 minion equivalents
Salvage 7.69% 46 36-62 598 minion equivalents
--------------------------------------------------------
(Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.)
(1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.)
533 rewarding mobs defeated
0 bosses and elite bosses
200 lieutenants
332 minions
1 rewarding mobs of unknown rank
Chimera (1)
535 inf/debt rewards
1033117 inf
13950 prestige
18 Pool A recipes (Mob Defeats)
6 uncommon and rare recipes
Enfeebled Operation: Acc/Immob (Recipe)
Glimpse of the Abyss: Acc/Rech (Recipe)
Mocking Beratement: Rech (Recipe)
Nightmare: Acc/Fear (Recipe)
Scirocco's Dervish: Acc/Dam (Recipe)
Soaring: Fly/Endurance (Recipe)
12 common recipes
1 Pool B recipes (Mission Complete)
Glimpse of the Abyss: Acc/End (Recipe)
1 Pool E recipes (Costume Pieces)
46 salvage
2 rare
13 uncommon
31 common
2 single origin enhancements
260 inspirations (0 tier 3, 78 tier 2, 182 tier 1, 0 special)
0 other drops
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
I did a small bit of testing tonight with characters on 2 different servers. Got below-expected (read: < 50%) recipe drops on both. Both 50 vills, one a brute running the Abyss mission, the other a dom running the first mission in the arc that culminates in Lib TV.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.