I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained
By
a tame rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-08-12 10:06 in Developers' Corner
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Right on!
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Originally Posted by Frost_NA
Hear that sound?
That's the sound of PLers crying out in one voice and then being suddenly silenced. If the exemplar power loss issue is solved, I'm all for these changes. |
http://www.dropkickthefaint.com/
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Last I checked this still worked (a couple of weeks ago). I usually solo the Midnighter badge missions. When I get to the Latin student part I broadcast a message to Steel Canyon telling anyone who needs the badge to contact me. Whoever is teamed when I choose the password gets the badge.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Ajax
Well unless they have changed it, only the mission holder needs to talk to the person and give the password. After they go in and get the Midnighter's Badge, everyone on the team gets it and can go in, no need to talk to the person to give the password.
Now, I haven't tried this in a long time and they could have changed it but before, once you have gotten the Midnighter's Badge you can get into the Midnighters Club. Can someone tell me, has this been changed or was this a bug and they fixed it? |
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There were already people who did this before AE: they invited "padders" or "fillers" to the team, then entered the mission and ran around to spawn the mobs. Then they kicked everyone off the team. The worst of these guys would spam everyone on the server multiple times. AE made this go away.|
Originally Posted by Macro_Ninja
I think this may drive teaming down. I see they are trying to remove PLing but if a lvl 50 can set hes mishns to full team and he can take them why team all drops are his.
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Because AE has no drops but tickets, AE's auto-SKing feature meant they don't lose anything by keeping the padders on the team, who often do nothing but stand by the door.
Seven doorsitters and a 50 soloing the spawns for 8 doesn't really constitute a team: I don't think the real teaming opportunities will be greatly reduced. The people who want to solo 8-man spawns will no longer have to bother the rest of us. Since they value their booty more than our company, it's no loss for them or us.
I've noticed that a lot of people think that you have to be on a big team to enjoy the game and reap good rewards. You don't. It's perfectly fine to have just two or three players. You can do 99.5% of the content that way -- including the AV missions (if you choose the challenge level properly AVs are scaled to EBs).
"But I'll get less XP that way!" you cry. Well, maybe not. I've seen all too many team leaders spend 20 minutes trying to fill that last spot on the team -- through a variety of mapserver disconnects, bio breaks, boredom, SG emergencies, etc. You're getting zero xp/minute while you stand around waiting for a full team. Since pickup teams have huge attrition rates, you typically wind up wasting a lot of time filling the team again after each mission. (A competent pickup team leader will not waste your time -- he'll keep things moving no matter what -- but that's an exhausting job and leaders of such caliber are hard to come by. I know I don't have the patience for it.)
Also, if you're playing with competent people that you know, you generally steamroll missions with no team wipes and other ugly surprises. Which means you can run at a higher challenge level and earn more XP. You can easily do twice as many missions an hour with a competent team of three or four regulars than you can with a pickup team you're trying to keep at eight.
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This, dammit. I'm all for new content, but the long and proud tradition of halfa**ed feature implementation and lingering bugs needs to die, burning and screaming.
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Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
I think the devs, who sents several years bringing us content, decided to actually fix the game, new powers, effects, QoL, balance. Which i've wanted them to do FOREVER. Get the game fix before adding more stuff to break it with.
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I just think the old need of a team will be lost farms will now be easier and all that sorta stuff. I dont like PLing but I do like to skip a lvl here and there. But now I will be able to get a friend with a strong tank/brute and lvl me up fast with a 8 man mishn it just doesnt seem like the right way to go.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
There were already people who did this before AE: they invited "padders" or "fillers" to the team, then entered the mission and ran around to spawn the mobs. Then they kicked everyone off the team. The worst of these guys would spam everyone on the server multiple times. AE made this go away.
Because AE has no drops but tickets, AE's auto-SKing feature meant they don't lose anything by keeping the padders on the team, who often do nothing but stand by the door. Seven doorsitters and a 50 soloing the spawns for 8 doesn't really constitute a team: I don't think the real teaming opportunities will be greatly reduced. The people who want to solo 8-man spawns will no longer have to bother the rest of us. Since they value their booty more than our company, it's no loss for them or us. I've noticed that a lot of people think that you have to be on a big team to enjoy the game and reap good rewards. You don't. It's perfectly fine to have just two or three players. You can do 99.5% of the content that way -- including the AV missions (if you choose the challenge level properly AVs are scaled to EBs). "But I'll get less XP that way!" you cry. Well, maybe not. I've seen all too many team leaders spend 20 minutes trying to fill that last spot on the team -- through a variety of mapserver disconnects, bio breaks, boredom, SG emergencies, etc. You're getting zero xp/minute while you stand around waiting for a full team. Since pickup teams have huge attrition rates, you typically wind up wasting a lot of time filling the team again after each mission. (A competent pickup team leader will not waste your time -- he'll keep things moving no matter what -- but that's an exhausting job and leaders of such caliber are hard to come by. I know I don't have the patience for it.) Also, if you're playing with competent people that you know, you generally steamroll missions with no team wipes and other ugly surprises. Which means you can run at a higher challenge level and earn more XP. You can easily do twice as many missions an hour with a competent team of three or four regulars than you can with a pickup team you're trying to keep at eight. |
Finaly though what about the people that invite you to team and think they can handle a 8 man team with only for this may anger some people form teaming. Ok thats my comants again like I sayed do with them as you like.
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
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If it doesn't seem like the right way to go, there's a simple solution: Don't do it. Really that's all there is to it. I really don't get the moaning about this sort of thing. |
Originally Posted by Macro_Ninja
I just think the old need of a team will be lost farms will now be easier and all that sorta stuff. I dont like PLing but I do like to skip a lvl here and there. But now I will be able to get a friend with a strong tank/brute and lvl me up fast with a 8 man mishn it just doesnt seem like the right way to go.
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I still play regular missions with friends and PuGs, the same way and the same amount (well maybe a bit less since I fit in a AE arc every now and then) I did before AE was released. And I16 wont change anything about that either. It'll only make things easier since now I can get a wider spread of levels on my team making iet easier to get it filled up.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
I think the reason some people moan about things like this is that they're neophobes. Some people don't like change. They want the game to be the way it was and any substantive change will be met with distaste. They'd rather not have to learn the new culture the change will engender. They'd rather not have to struggle with finding new ways of handling the same situations.
Not everyone is like that, but when a change is so universally accepted or celebrated, the naysayers usually do fall into that group. That's especially true when the change will really be a "take it or leave it" change. You don't like it? Then don't use it. Some people think, however, that if they don't like it then it shouldn't be available for anyone. C'est la vie.
Robin.
--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
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Except it's not take it or leave it SSK will be always on, all the time. And we have yet to get any confirmation it can be turned off
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Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman
I think the reason some people moan about things like this is that they're neophobes. Some people don't like change. They want the game to be the way it was and any substantive change will be met with distaste. They'd rather not have to learn the new culture the change will engender. They'd rather not have to struggle with finding new ways of handling the same situations.
Not everyone is like that, but when a change is so universally accepted or celebrated, the naysayers usually do fall into that group. That's especially true when the change will really be a "take it or leave it" change. You don't like it? Then don't use it. Some people think, however, that if they don't like it then it shouldn't be available for anyone. C'est la vie. Robin. |
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Why would you want it turned off?
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Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
Except it's not take it or leave it SSK will be always on, all the time. And we have yet to get any confirmation it can be turned off
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Precisely to do the things that SSK will prevent: PL by bridge.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Why would you want it turned off?
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Which is my reason to believe that it will not be an option. This was meant to eliminate a lot of problems.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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"The system itself was conceived almost by accident: Up until fairly recently, quest writers working on City of Heroes were forced to slog through their task using an unwieldy spreadsheet."|
Originally Posted by Futurias
Incorrect. Before they developed the MA, the developers used Excel (spreadsheets) to design missions.
They now use a form of the mission editor for in house mission making. |
Stand corrected
Here's the thing. To Un-exemplar now, you apparently have to quit the team. Now, if they don't change this and still allow you to Un-Ex by choice, then this could happen:
Say you have another person the team with a level 47 mission. Mission is set, so everyone gets set to 46. You're farmer guy, or whatever 50's you got then, could un-ex themselves, leaving everyone else at 46. You then proceed to street sweep RWZ, or whatever depending on party level and you're basically still bridging.
This is assuming that people get SK'd when mission is set, and not in mission, and that you'll be able to un-Examplar yourself without having to quit the damn team.
I'm so excited bout of of these features, especially if they are able to manage not having a toons powers drop when exempt. All of this seems pure win except one thing that several others have pointed out:
- Need to make the e-mail to select by global (since so many of us don't use locals any more) if possible
- OR let it have option for local friend &/ sg AND OR coalition as well since E-mails are side specific
- Also if there is a limit to local friends are there are to global's then up this limit as a result.
Confusion is Lord & Chaos is my Best Friend!! Shall I introduce you??
MArc# 5232 Bastet's Unleashing *a Solo-able arc*
Gae'Atha- lvl 50 Emp/Ele/Psi Def
Sekmet's Fel Blood- lvl 50 Rad/Ther/GW Corr
looks as if everything Ive ever wanted short of my brute coming to blueside is in i16.
I simply cant relate how happy this makes me!
Posi, two things that have me concerned about the higher challenge/higher rewards
1. I Have spent a massive ammount of time perfecting a build and slotting it full of rares, This brute is basically my pride and joy. It is a very specific build for a very specific thing. Would people complaining about that characters strength eventually get the build nerfed? As far as I know, My build is what the game allows, I'm not breaking any rules and I dont want to see this happen; That would ruin me and my love for the game.
2. Ticket cap: Often when Im on my missions, I just loose myself for a while. I love to stay in a mission as long as I can. If I can set an extremely long and difficult mission <4-6 hrs> I calculated that without the ticket cap at 1500 I would have made around 9000ish tickets. I dislike zoneing just to start another mission when the one I am on is quite capable of continuously delivering the rewards. Since my character is almost purped out <missing one set> I dont really need anything from ticket rolls, My point being, I am one of the farmers that populates the market. This is my playstyle. Is there any way to maybe adjust the ticket cap?
I love everything I am hearing about i16, I cant wait to see it in action!
One last thing, dearest, dearest Posi
When are we going to get some base love?
the Twisted Burrow would just LOVE for you to visit!
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Sorry I wasn't more clear on this when I sayed "it doesn't seem like the right way to go" I was talking about the game not what you do with it. As it may cause teaming to drop cause you still will get blind invites from people to team. People will not find teams even if the team has a spot open cause there is no need to get more people. Lastly I realized you have to quit team to go back to your higher lvl ... doesnt that kick you out? Even so that could get annoying. Ok thats my coment as alwas do as you wish with it. AE may work with that better for the ae junk <AE junk = farm mishns> cause then it stopes the mega farms. I was never on many farms preAE and now AE team LFM is now come farm with use.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
If it doesn't seem like the right way to go, there's a simple solution: Don't do it. Really that's all there is to it. I really don't get the moaning about this sort of thing.
I still play regular missions with friends and PuGs, the same way and the same amount (well maybe a bit less since I fit in a AE arc every now and then) I did before AE was released. And I16 wont change anything about that either. It'll only make things easier since now I can get a wider spread of levels on my team making iet easier to get it filled up. |
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt this would do anything to real teams. This makes teaming even easier. You don't have to search to mentors and you can auto pad the missions. If there's gonna be a lack of teaming, it's by door sitters and I think they'll be fine 
I've already been on farms where the leader claimed he doesn't want more than 'x' amount of people on the team, it's all speculation anyways, but I doubt that notion will become a dominant attitude.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
I doubt this would do anything to real teams. This makes teaming even easier. You don't have to search to mentors and you can auto pad the missions. If there's gonna be a lack of teaming, it's by door sitters and I think they'll be fine
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As an aside, I have almost never had issues finding a 6-8 person team. Might have to do with 2 other players in the house with me. Could be that I have a small but active SG that loves running in anything. Possibly because Smaller Servers appear to be more team oriented (I play on Pinn). I don't know exactly why I don't have teaming issues, but sometimes I know there are people that have issues getting onto teams due to lack of ability to team.
There was a person back in.... I8 I think.... that was such a terrible teammate. He was a "Battle Empath" that took every single emp power, and every single NRG power. He would slot all his Emp powers, but never used any of them. He would not slot his NRG powers, but used them all the time. He would rush off, over aggro, and run back to a resting party. He would use KB powers on the mobs the scrapper was fighting, and ignore the ones on the blaster. We tried helping him. We tried giving him advise. He wouldn't listen to anyone. He was by far the worst player I have ever gamed with. He also was the guy that got me into CoX.
So a time came when we would not party him.... We were always "on a TF" or "full" or "logging soon." He would ask the SG and they wouldn't play in a team with him. Magically PUG's wouldn't keep him for more than a single mish. He eventually quit the game.
Moral of the story is, If you don't have a team, you might not be trying hard enough. You might not be looking hard enough. You might not be asking nice enough. You might not be a good enough player. You might not be slotted well, or have a "party" buld. You might become legend for being "that pug guy." It probably isn't you, but it might be. Take some time to think about what you can do to make you a value to any team you get on, and people remember you. My global friends list is full of great players, and almost every single one of them was in a radio PUG at one time or another.
EDIT: I am using the plural "you" to refur to the community as a whole or the individuals of said community. I am not singleing anyone out specifically.
that guy must of been the life of the party
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More like the Unlife of the party. With as oftan as we face planted, I swear it was a team of Zombies.
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Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
that guy must of been the life of the party
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Outside of a mission, you are SK'ed to the person with the star. So yeah, you can street sweep 50s in RWZ with a 47 on your team, but only as long as the team leader stays 47. He could turn off XP, I guess, if he wanted to be a full-time "bridger". |
Originally Posted by biff10426
Here's the thing. To Un-exemplar now, you apparently have to quit the team. Now, if they don't change this and still allow you to Un-Ex by choice, then this could happen:
Say you have another person the team with a level 47 mission. Mission is set, so everyone gets set to 46. You're farmer guy, or whatever 50's you got then, could un-ex themselves, leaving everyone else at 46. You then proceed to street sweep RWZ, or whatever depending on party level and you're basically still bridging. |
The 50 that quit your team, though, he would not do your team any good. You wouldn't get any XP for kills he made, and he wouldn't get any influence for kills you made. If you both contributed to a kill you would split the XP, but you would split it according to the damage done. So likely he'd get all the XP. (and be unable to use it, since he's 50)
I'm guessing if they allow you to un-Exemp, it will be like this. You'll return to your previous level, but you're cut off from the team in terms of dividing XP. If you want to just steamroller through a level to get it out of the way, though, and not earn any XP for it, you can do that.
In all honesty, I kinda play my Emp like your friend that left, only difference I still manage to keep Fortitude on at least half the team and give out buffs/heals >_>
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A bit of a late reaction to this post, and a bit off topic, but I found that AE being in the middle of the RWZ was so... strange... I mean... a warzone... if you going so far into the odd stuff why not just add an AE room to Pocket D?
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Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
Wait...so we can get into the RWZ to team with villains in the AE at level 1 now? Or do we have to be sk'd to the required level to get in?
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hehe...I do agree that the AE basically away from the safe zone seems rather weird...curious if they have plans to integrate another room inside the base for the AE.
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Originally Posted by Starsman_NA
A bit of a late reaction to this post, and a bit off topic, but I found that AE being in the middle of the RWZ was so... strange... I mean... a warzone... if you going so far into the odd stuff why not just add an AE room to Pocket D?
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So you use some of those Empath powers to help the team.|
Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
In all honesty, I kinda play my Emp like your friend that left, only difference I still manage to keep Fortitude on at least half the team and give out buffs/heals >_>
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Another quick example: He (the empath defneder with unslotted attack powers) refused to rez the scrapper because "If [I] stop attacking, the enemies won't die, and might kill [me]." I responded with "But you do <Censored> damage, and that scrapper can finish this in no time, as well as... nevermind yet another party wipe." So I used an awaken, handed him one+break free and he still refused to rez anyone.
EDIT: And I just realized why I hate Empathy (and by proxy defenders) so much. That guy was the person that introduced me to the game. I have partied with better empaths (as well as defenders), but somehow its rare to find one I really feel is a "team player."
Okay and thank you Blue.