Conserve Power REPLACED ON Test in /ELEC!

Quote is reduced. Nothing taken out of context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan What makes you think I'm arguing against this change? I would love this change! I'm just a little annoyed by the pervasive idea that /Elec is a broken set because it offers the least passive mitigation of the armor sets.

Thanks for clarifying. I was one of those 'enemies' glaring at you, even though on my electric brutes, I wasn't sapped...

Quote:

Fulmens in particular has clearly not ever played /Elec, or he would know that Lightning Field also drains endurance on each tick, and the combination of a fully enhanced Power Sink and Lightning Field reduces enemy endurance to zero in about ten seconds and keeps it there without any further need for investment in drain powers. But I guess the crowds of enemies I've seen glaring angrily at me, unable to attack due to their empty endurance bars, were a figment of my imagination. And the utterly berserk DPS I get out of my SS/Elec must also be the delusion of a fevered mind.

One of the key issues with end drain is that it is less effective when you up the difficulty slider - especially when you run into +3s and +4s. I find that under these circumstances, that end drain is not an effective means of mitigation.

As for Lightning Field, my default slotting is:

-Scirocco's Acc/Dam/End, Dam/End
-Multistrike Acc/Dam/End, Dam/End
-End Mod IO if I want end drain

It's effective at draining, but in my data gathering, I've found that lightning field significantly contributes to my AoE dps. Furthermore, lightning field is better used as a means to ensure the mobs stay drained of endurance, rather than actively drain them of endurance.

Quote:

This is a good buff because it turns Conserve Power into something actually useful, and I don't like totally useless powers in sets. It's a good buff because it makes a staminaless /Elec brute much more feasible, as the endurance mitigation kicks in earlier and more effectively. It's a good buff because a self-heal and regeneration is always nice to have. It is not a buff that is necessary to make /Elec useful or desirable.

As you seem like someone who enjoys electric armor, perhaps looking at it as a means to encourage other people to enjoy the set as much as you do is a good thing. A lot of people feel that electric armor cannot perform as well as willpower or fire armor. Some of those people are right.

For example, try taking your electric brute on the classic TV farm map against nemesis. You'll quickly see that electric armor pales in comparison to both willpower and fire in this situation. Now fire armor is laughably weak against Rikti, but on several teaming situations, I often feel left out, due to my unique strengths. What I find effortless (malta) is usually avoided like the plague by most other players.

Sure, that is just one case out of potentially thousands. However, I believe there is merit to examining how the set performs in the end game - particularly with missions and strike forces that are typically repeated. Those would be:

-ITF: Electric Armor is mediocre. You aren't going to be as good as an inv, fire, wp, SR, or stone. Hence, why a lot of people think it's underperforming.
-LGTF: Now we're talking. You're golden.
-LRSF: Oh, how I hate longbow and their S/L damage. Their rifles chew through my melee defense, and their wardens hit like a truck. Stoners are great here, so is SS/WP usually. You aren't going to be happy being the alpha tank on this. Sure you can do the MoLRSF, but it sure isn't as easy as other sets.
-BSF: I don't want to take my SS/elec on this SF again. Ever.
-RWZ Raid: Sure, why not. The only thing that really hurts is when a few magus or mentalists start noticing me.


Typically Repeated Villain 50 Content:
-TVs DE/Freak Map: Oh, this one is kinda fun. I can solo it set at relent to 6 without relying on inspies. 8 spawns 2 bosses, which I can't handle.
-TV's Nemesis Map: This is just a venture in pain. I have no real means to fill up my HP bar again. If I don't have a *egads* healer, I run out of inspirations very quickly.
-Demon Map: Fire Damage? No thank you.
-Papers: Yay malta. Boo CoT. Carnies? Sure, I guess.
-Eldersnakes: That toxic DoT guarantees aid self is out of the question. Grab some friends and tons of knockback. It is loads of fun playing with fire. Here is a great example of where energize will help (and a good example of the only reason why I'd even consider powersurge)
-Patron Missions: Hey, some of these are fun. Mu aren't much of a threat to me. However, I'm not sure how much I would enjoy Black Scorpion's, or Ghost Widow's. I've never tried Mako's.

I could probably go on with these. Electric armor does have some situations where it shines, but often these are the very missions that most people do not want to do. Many non-elecs look at Scirocco's and shudder thinking of all the Mu they have to deal with. Most don't revel over the thought of Malta.

Electric armor could stand to get this buff. It isn't a huge buff, but it is worthwhile.

Quote:

You could reduce the resistance in the /Elec armors to zero, retain all the other properties of the set, and it would still be useful and desirable for certain build goals. (It'd be damned weird, and difficult to level, but still.)

This would only work if all of ElA's end drain capabilities were doubled, and power sink's recharge was halved. End drain can be used as a good means of mitigation, but it takes 2 applications of powersink to drain +3 lieutenants, even on a elec/elec/mu. That means I have to survive about 20 seconds before I get to fire it again. An Electric Armor SO build can be dropped in 5 seconds if you don't pop inspirations. 2 seconds if it is eldersnake bosses outside of powersurge (which I never take).

As I farm with several electric armor brutes, I am well familiar with how the set performs. Oddly enough, I still am in the 'buff ElA camp'. I've learned how to play ElA well, to the point where I can consistently fire aid self in the middle of a saturated mob that is constantly firing at me (and no I don't even need to slot for interrupt reduction).

Haven't the developers stated at one point or another that, while keeping invention enhancement sets in mind, designing a power based on them is inherently BAD design?

Seriously any set with 100% recharge bonuses is going to perform WAY better than it normally would on anyone who can't afford 500 billion in enhancements.

I personally don't think the numbers (which are TANK values) are too high at all, especially considering if I was to ever make an electrical armor brute/scrapper/tank, I most certainly would only have between 15-35% recharge in IO bonuses because I flat out don't want to farm the rest of my life away to slot for a high recharge build (I've done it on one character and that was enough to satisfy me).

Thanks for that reply, Tonality. I have no objection whatsoever to your evaluation - everything you say matches my experiences. What tends to rile me up is when people who clearly don't have experience with how the set works in actual play somehow feel qualified to offer firm statements on the set's effectiveness that clearly contradict what I have seen with my own eyes.

My SS/Elec was actually my second brute, the first being an EM/DA, and I had to do more than a little mental recalibration during the transition. (Incidentally, I've also been quite outspoken about the effectiveness of /DA, another set that looks rather ugly on paper yet performs well in practice). I may be a bit unusual in my insistence that "weird toys" sets aren't broken because their effectiveness comes via subtle routes, but I think it would be a shame if they were made more similar to the more popular sets. I don't see the Energize change doing that - if anything, it makes one of the weird toys even weirder - but I get leery when I see people saying things like "finally, /elec can compete with /wp!" That's missing the point on a grand scale.

Spitting Trashcan:

I don't really get the argument. Of course Electric needs some sort of buff to be inline with the other sets. It has been all by itself since it's introduction and does not compete with the other Brute sets. Let's break it down simple like...

Sets like Invuln, Stone Armor, and Willpower have layered mitigation using resistance, defense, and boosting max HP or self heal. This works nicley and provides the most staright forward survivability.

Super Reflexes depends entirely on defense, which is very effective in this game.

Energy Aura is mainly defense, but it;s typed and so it gets a little resistance and recently had a heal added. It also has endurance stealing powers like Electric, but grants stealth. It has alot of toys...

Speaking of toys, Dark Armor is full of them. Perhaps the trickiest set, can be the most dominating when used correctly.

Fire has weak resists, but a great heal and a damaging aura toggle.

Now look at Electric. It has no defense, no extra HP, no heals, no trickery. It has decent resistance, dmaging aura, and endurance drain powers. It is comparable to DA without the stealth, or heal. It is comparible to Fire without the heal. It is comparible to Energy Aura before it got a heal. It is obvious in my mind it needed something to bring it in line with other sets.

Man, I just love how much discussion this power's leaked information has caused.

I'm always mixed on whether I should know what's coming or let the deveoplers/early testers make sure it works before we see it.

Energize is not finalized yet, but yeah... I have yet to play a build on live or test that let me use all powers from Electrical Melee, Armor and Mu Mastery because of the need for Tough and Aid Self to meet the challenge of all types of mobs instead of just Energy users.

The time when I realize I should leave well enough alone is when I start to sound to myself like this guy.

/Elec has been good to me and to others; with Energize, it will be even better. Happy bruting to all.

Oh man, 2 minute recharge.. Oh boy oh boy. Wonder how much we can squeeze that down..

Hopefully my math is close and this will be a within reason slotting/bonuses for Energize:

Base Recharge 1.0/120 seconds (unslotted) = 120 seconds.

2 recharge SOs 1.67/120 seconds = 72 seconds.

3 recharge SOs with Lightning Reflexes 2.15/120 seconds = 55.8 seconds.

Within Reason slotting:
Lighting Reflexes .20
Full Slotting .95
CJ w/ lotg .075
Oblit bonus .05
Doc Wounds .05
C. Impact x 2 .10

Recharge 2.425/120 with slotting/bonuses = 49.5 seconds.

Bonkers recharge:
LR .20
Overslotting 1.0
4 lotg .30
Hasten .70
2 Oblit .10
2 C. Impacts .10
Doc.Wounds .05
Very Rare setsx5: .50

Recharge 3.95/120 = 30.4 seconds.

EDIT: yeah, woops, had that as 2.95 instead of adding the 1.00 base.

I'm sorry but about $#@! time now I can drop the medicine pool on focus on other things like MOAR SMASH!

I can't wait to drop the Medicine Pool and say good bye to that slow as molasses Aid Self animation. That thing drives me crazy and I have to use all the time.

Well I am interested to try this out. Its not what I had hoped for Electric but I will have to try it out.

I had hoped for a little more S/L resistance and resistance to Defense debuffs. The things I find cause me problems are usually when my defense is way red. For those of you who watch their defense values. In short order I can be taking twice the damage I was at the beginning of the fight. All because they cannot seem to miss me. Not because my resistance is suddenly weaker or I cannot heal.

I am certain this will be helpful and I will find a way to make good use of it. I am disappointed things went this way but not surprised since this has been what the masses seemed to want.

I look forward to this change.

I logged on my old lvl 29 ss/elec brute last last night(been at 29 for 2 years), In Cap a rikti invasion and dearthsurge was happening at the same time. He did very well agaist both.

However, I will wait till i16 to play him again, one reason so i can respec out of aid self(man i hate that animation) Two, So I can use the ground punch animation. Reason is, My brute has a One huge robotic arm(where his super stregth come from) it looks great with knockout blow, But foot stomp would make little sense for him concept wise. I would also like a one handed hurl. Also I believe haymaker was changed too.

Man, I am a sucker for concept charcters.

I said this in the i16 beta thread (that's in the training room/test server forum) but...

Man that's a great change. I loved my elec/elec brute when I was lvl'ing him but man...he got hurt a lot...especially versus certain mob groups (Council Warwolves/Freakshows Tanks/etc)...with this heal/power, sounds really good