Well, hey. If trying to show that /Elec has been working well for me means I don't get this nice buff, then mum's the word. Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more...
@SPTrashcan
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Quote:
I can run a brute without any secondary powers at all and make it "work well". That's a Brute. That has nothing to do with ELA.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Well, hey. If trying to show that /Elec has been working well for me means I don't get this nice buff, then mum's the word. Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more...
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Yeah but do you need a heal, regen and 60% end redux all at once every 35-40s (at around 120% global recharge and about 95% recharge from enhancements)?|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
A power that gives 100% regen for 30 seconds on a 120 recharge isn't great.
A power that gives 60% end reduction for 30 seconds on a 120 recharge isn't great. A power that gives a 25% heal on a 120 recharge isn't great. A power that does all three at the same time IS great. |
Don't get me wrong, I think this is definitely better. But I think they could have dropped the heal and just boosted regen more.
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Oh, certainly not! Electric Armor is exactly like having nothing at all. This buff is the least that could be done for it. Why, it's weak as a kitten! I can't tell you how many times I've cast envious glances at my friends' /EA and /Inv brutes and chewed my nails in frustration as they waltzed through Rikti, Carnies, and Malta without as much as a scratch. End my suffering, devs! Do not leave me trammeled into the dust!
(Was that too much? I never know...)
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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Quote:
Depending on your slotting and attack chain, that point is debatable. Assuming you're using MG>Smite>Siphon>Smite and have Siphon hybrid slotted for 70% healing, that's 242.25 hp every 6.732 seconds for 36 hp/sec. Now, assuming that the heal and +regen are fully enhanceable in Energize, at a similar level of recharge (140% global +rech, 90% +rech from slotting) and decent heal slotting (90%), that's 889.2 every 35 seconds (cuz of animation time) for 25.4 hp/sec and 190% +regen with 85.7% uptime for a total benefit of 15.9 hp/sec (assuming no +hp, which is pretty unlikely; at 20% +hp, that's 19 hp/sec). That's 36 hp/sec from Siphon Life compared to 41.27 hp/sec from Energize.
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Originally Posted by Diellan_
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I fixed that for ya.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Oh, certainly not! Electric Armor is exactly like having nothing at all. This buff is the least that could be done for it. Why, it's weak as a kitten! I can't tell you how many times I've cast envious glances at my friends' /EA and /Inv brutes and chewed my nails in frustration as they waltzed through Romans, Vahzilok, and other various other enemies that don't only do Energy damage without as much as a scratch. End my suffering, devs! Do not leave me trammeled into the dust!
(Was that too much? I never know...) |
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My Siphon Life is slotted for 95% healing, giving it 292.36 hp every 6.732 seconds and 43.43 hp/sec.|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
Depending on your slotting and attack chain, that point is debatable. Assuming you're using MG>Smite>Siphon>Smite and have Siphon hybrid slotted for 70% healing, that's 242.25 hp every 6.732 seconds for 36 hp/sec. Now, assuming that the heal and +regen are fully enhanceable in Energize, at a similar level of recharge (140% global +rech, 90% +rech from slotting) and decent heal slotting (90%), that's 889.2 every 35 seconds (cuz of animation time) for 25.4 hp/sec and 190% +regen with 85.7% uptime for a total benefit of 15.9 hp/sec (assuming no +hp, which is pretty unlikely; at 20% +hp, that's 19 hp/sec). That's 36 hp/sec from Siphon Life compared to 41.27 hp/sec from Energize.
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EDIT: Which is really, really absurd for a power in my primary.
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
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Electric armor can perform quite well at times. However it has quite a few issues performing the alpha role at times, especially against enemies it isn't suited for. Circle of Thorns and Cimerorans can be particularly painful. I suppose many sets have their weaknesses, but electric's weakness just happens to be against some of the more common enemies in the game.| Well, hey. If trying to show that /Elec has been working well for me means I don't get this nice buff, then mum's the word. Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more... |
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Oh, certainly not! Electric Armor is exactly like having nothing at all. This buff is the least that could be done for it. Why, it's weak as a kitten! I can't tell you how many times I've cast envious glances at my friends' /EA and /Inv brutes and chewed my nails in frustration as they waltzed through Rikti, Carnies, and Malta without as much as a scratch. End my suffering, devs! Do not leave me trammeled into the dust! (Was that too much? I never know...) |
Again, you're showing that electic performs well against specific enemy groups that focus on the strengths of electric armor. Rikti deal quite a bit of energy damage, which you will shrug off. It's why dark/elec is absolutely sick in the RWZ.
I do tend to play to my advantages. I'm not going to intentially subject my shield brute to kheld ppd, nor am I going to run the demon map on my elec brutes. However, given that electric's primary means of mitigation is resistance, and the secondary means is less than effective at the higher difficulty levels, adding in the extra regen and heal will certainly help the set.
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That's still less hp/sec than you'd be getting from Energize if you've got the 20% +hp accolades. It gets even better the more +hp you stack on to it. Plus, Energize is doing double duty (as Siphon Life is) but giving you energy redux to go along with the damage recovery capabilities.
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Originally Posted by Diellan_
My Siphon Life is slotted for 95% healing, giving it 292.36 hp every 6.732 seconds and 43.43 hp/sec.
EDIT: Which is really, really absurd for a power in my primary. |
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I didn't have Conserve Power before and never missed it. The end redux from Energize isn't something I'll need either. But, yes, I concede that Siphon Life and Energize are pretty close here on a high recharge build. At lower recharge values, though, Siphon Life beats it more handily.|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
That's still less hp/sec than you'd be getting from Energize if you've got the 20% +hp accolades. It gets even better the more +hp you stack on to it. Plus, Energize is doing double duty (as Siphon Life is) but giving you energy redux to go along with the damage recovery capabilities.
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My point, though, was that we can already see what ELA does with this kind of healing power and it isn't overpowered. Energize isn't going to break the set.
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There's the thought of animation time to consider.
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I already had that factored in, assuming that it keeps the same animation time as CP, the cycle time should be 35 seconds (~34 + ~1).
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
There's the thought of animation time to consider.
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I meant it in the "You are fist pumping with Siphon life every few seconds" way.
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Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
I already had that factored in, assuming that it keeps the same animation time as CP, the cycle time should be 35 seconds (~34 + ~1).
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Eh, it's a good attack anyway, even discounting the heal, so that's less of an issue because animation time is more of an offensive resource than a defensive resource. The fact that Energize takes up so much less animation time than Energize is balance quite well by the fact that Siphon Life actually kills stuff and Energize never will.
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
I meant it in the "You are fist pumping with Siphon life every few seconds" way.
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My Siphon Life is slotted for 95% healing, giving it 292.36 hp every 6.732 seconds and 43.43 hp/sec.
6.732 + 1.93 = 8.662
1.93 / 8.662 = 22%
My point is spending 22% of your time casting Siphon Life cannot mean "that we can already see what ELA does with this kind of healing power and it isn't overpowered." You are spending 22% of your time fist pumping and not wacking stuff upside the head with a piece of metal on a stick, or speed chaning dark punches, or using one of your more killerating powers. I'm assuming here... and it's pure assumption... that Energize won't require you to spend a significant amount of your time "Energizing".
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Except that MG > Smite > Siphon Life > Smite is the number one dps chain available to Dark Melee. There isn't much else you'd want to be doing than spamming Siphon Life (except, of course, Power Sink).
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Originally Posted by Smurphy
My Siphon Life is slotted for 95% healing, giving it 292.36 hp every 6.732 seconds and 43.43 hp/sec.
6.732 + 1.93 = 8.662 1.93 / 8.662 = 22% My point is spending 22% of your time casting Siphon Life cannot mean "that we can already see what ELA does with this kind of healing power and it isn't overpowered." You are spending 22% of your time fist pumping and not wacking stuff upside the head with a piece of metal on a stick, or speed chaning dark punches, or using one of your more killerating powers. I'm assuming here... and it's pure assumption... that Energize won't require you to spend a significant amount of your time "Energizing". |
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I guess it's just my bias against single target attacks. Always felt like you are accomplishing nothing to me. I guess I'm not as "Ultimate" as some silly people.
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Eh, you're more "ultimate" within the context of destroying huge swathes of enemies, which is something that DM isn't really designed for. DC and SD are more accurately support powers with minor damage capabilities than they are actual AoE and SM is painfully bad where brutes are concerned, iirc (it's an incredible tool if you learn to use it though simply because it breaks so many of the rules set within the damage formula). I doubt anyone that looks at optimization in the same way as you would take an attack set so heavily focused on single target damage and utility that it is painfully lacking in the AoE department any way.|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
I guess it's just my bias against single target attacks. Always felt like you are accomplishing nothing to me. I guess I'm not as "Ultimate" as some silly people.
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Anyway, MG>Smite>Siphon>Smite is the optimal ST DM Scrapper attack chain. I believe that Brutes actually get better DPS out of MG>Gloom>Smite>Siphon>Gloom>Smite simply because Gloom if friggin' gold.
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Ah, yes, how could I forget Romans and Vahzilok! Romans, who I most certainly never farm on the wall, all appearances to the contrary; whose vulnerability to endurance drain, which switches off their mez resist toggles, I couldn't possibly exploit. And Vahzilok, which of course /EA and /Inv have typed toxic defense against.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
I fixed that for ya.
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You're absolutely right, sir. In this here modern game we have, /Elec needs this buff just to compete. I am totally serious here! Stop laughing!
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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You'll have to excuse me; I'm a little late to the /Elec Armor discussions. Several years late, in fact. I agree with previous analysis: It's a very strong power in a, currently, very weak set.
The recent analysis I did [my wife started levelling one up, dual blades/elec; I'm an RPG accountant for my friends] made me go "It's about as survivable as Fire Armor without Healing Flames." On a Brute End Drain looks like it only works if you go Elec/Elec or possibly */Elec/Mu, and End Drain is tricky mitigation [although I have no personal experience of it on a brute.] In a slight tangent, anything that doesn't work until level 41 or higher is broken. From a game design point of view, anything that works against "This game is fun from level 1 on" is strongly to be discouraged.
So yeah, giving it the rough equivalent of Healing Flames makes it the rough equivalent of Fire Armor. Which works for me.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
And Vahzilok, which of course /EA and /Inv have typed toxic defense against.
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typed toxic defense eh? that's nifty
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This sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty much exactly. Electric Armor seems to me to be one of the clearest victims of Power Creep this game has ever had. The notion of not rebalancing around IOs is just a memory, at least on the player side of the equation. But I'm not a developer, so my standards of over or under-powered are irrelevant.|
Originally Posted by Smurphy
I'm sorry you haven't had good experiences with Electric Armor. I've always been satisfied with mine with SOs but understand how others were frustrated with it. Electric armor was once considered flavor of the month and since that point it hasn't gotten weaker and enemies have not gotten stronger.
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This is not to say that I'm not excited about this power, even though I anticipate something less impressive actually going live. It is to say that I'm very happy this change to a set I already consider solid is coming at the same time as the expanded mission difficulty options. I will be living full-time inside of Rikti Maps spawned for maximum teams now.
Also, these are my feelings regarding Electric Armor for Brutes only. I'll reserve judgment on Electric Tankers and Scrappers until I play them, and it's hard to imagine what could make me want to play an Electric Armor Stalker again.
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Elec Armor with SO's is much like Fire Armor with SO's, only instead of a 50% heal every 30 seconds or so [roughly equivalent to 800% Regeneration], you get to remove 80% of enemy endurance, leaving them plenty to kill you with. |
Originally Posted by Eisenzahn
This sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty much exactly. Electric Armor seems to me to be one of the clearest victims of Power Creep this game has ever had. The notion of not rebalancing around IOs is just a memory, at least on the player side of the equation. But I'm not a developer, so my standards of over or under-powered are irrelevant.
[...] |
It's not Power Creep. It's a broken set.
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60% endurance reduction is redundant given the potency of Power Sink. They had to keep endurance reduction due to the cottage rule, so this is bascially a freebie. Power Sink still needs to be spammed because Endurance Mod is still such an integral part of ELA's protective layers.
25% heal and 30 seconds of 100% regen on a 2 minute timer is good, but not great. I'd give all of that up for a clone of Healing Flames or Dull Pain.
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