Conserve Power REPLACED ON Test in /ELEC!

How exactly does it beat out SD & SR -- especially when those basically never get hit?

I have never heard that Fire was a more survivable set either, though my info may be pre the changes to healing flames.

Can you provide more info?

He's referring solely to these charts: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=126306

do it!

Energize is powerful.

Sad thing is that Electric Armor really needs something this strong to just be on par in survivablity with some of the other Armor sets. The set a has been pretty to look at, but tasted like a poopsickle for so long, that few people took it.

So to sum it up you are both right. Energize is really strong, but Electric Armor was so weak that Energize doesn't even make Electric Armor near the strongest or best Armor set. Electric Armor just becomes good enough to play and it will be interesting because it is good at some things other Armor sets aren't. And Electric Armor is so pretty.

I'm currently working on something else, but I'll make it a point to update the mitigation spreadsheet to I16, hopefully in a couple days.

At first blush, though, the numbers seem reasonable. "Enough" is subjective: in my opinion the recovery, drain, and offensive capabilities of the set are enough to mean that it doesn't have to be "equal" to the other sets in the area of direct damage mitigation, which means even if it lags the other sets on my spreadsheet, that doesn't mean it lags overall.

Prior to Energize, it lagged *enough* for me to state that it was highly unlikely that drain and recovery were enough to make up the huge amount of numerical ground. But energize seems to put Electric within striking distance of the other sets, and to a first order approximation that's all it really needs to be fair competition for the other damage mitigation sets.

No, it's really not.

That amount of regen is not that significant on its own. It's not going to save you in a tough fight. And if a 50% heal on a 30-35s timer is broken, why doesn't it make Fire Armor broken to have one on a 20s or less timer with far, far less recharge than Permahasten?

Sorry, not nearly as awesome as you guys are painting it. Especially on a Resistance-only build (no +Defense) since every effect and its brother gets through, meaning you eat all the -Def and -Res that come your way.

ELA was only considered a FoTM when it was shiny and new, and people were taking it because of that and playing it on teams, where various healing buffs and other mitigation benefits covered its significant performance holes. It's the SR of Resist sets, with none of the perks of a high-defense set. Specifically it can't reach the 90% Brute DR cap on its own outside of Power Surge, while SR can with a few pool powers and/or IOs. Like SR Scrappers, most successful soloers using ElA did so with the help of Aid Self, but unlike the SR users, ElA lacks the +Def to help activate AS uninterrupted under heavy fire.

This change looks very welcome and not at all overpowered in the presence of things like WP, SR and even Invuln.

A power that gives 100% regen for 30 seconds on a 120 recharge isn't great.
A power that gives 60% end reduction for 30 seconds on a 120 recharge isn't great.
A power that gives a 25% heal on a 120 recharge isn't great.

A power that does all three at the same time IS great.

You act as if there aren't builds that can't do this sort of thing already. You act as if there's some problem if ElA is added to their ranks.

It's important to note that the yellow text is extremely important. If you do not choose a complimentary primary the weaknesses of ElA become extremely visible. It also becomes visible in comparison, taking primaries with strong mitigation (Stone or Dark Melee, for example) on ElA and then a better-performing set, such as WP.

The differences are marked.

Basically, SD & SR have low values because I'm not including IOs into the analysis (since the Dev's don't balance around them - obviously, given how much Resist gets screwed in that department). Without a ton of +Defense set bonuses to back them up, SD and SR have very low survivability values.

As was said elsewhere, I'm using Arcanaville's charts which, admittedly, are not the "be all and end all" of defense analysis, mostly because it can't quantify effects like end drain, mez effects, afraid powers, and so forth. Also, it doesn't support click regen powers. So I'm not considering it to be The Final Say, but does give general ideas.

My feelings are what JuiliusSeizure and ArcanaVille have put in. It gives Electric a nice boost that puts it into the same general field as everyone else. So long as it remains easier to get defense bonuses than resist bonuses, though, it won't be top tier when IO'd out.

Glad you understand me. I guess it will be fun though if all those #s are enhanceable. I'll be dropping Power Surge and Power Sink. What would I need them for

Yep. I understand that you're wrong.

Indeed they are! WP has no damage aura, no +rech passive, no drain protection, and no active mitigation whatsoever. All it does is keep you alive, and if your primary is already doing that, you go to the secondary that sacrifices the most mitigation for the nicest set of utilities... don't you?

I think the question I should be asking you is how you feel about sets that don't have the same level of synergy with all their possible complements. I rather like them, but it seems like you want to insist on comparing without regard to possible complementary interactions.

Yup. I am one of those that will be running a ~34 second recharge of this skill. It's not as powerful as you make it out to be.

60% endurance reduction is redundant given the potency of Power Sink. They had to keep endurance reduction due to the cottage rule, so this is bascially a freebie. Power Sink still needs to be spammed because Endurance Mod is still such an integral part of ELA's protective layers.

25% heal and 30 seconds of 100% regen on a 2 minute timer is good, but not great. I'd give all of that up for a clone of Healing Flames or Dull Pain.

Look at the skill with SOs and it's perfectly fine. Almost every set becomes broken at 205% global recharge, soft capped, or IO pumped up the wazoo. Thanks for pointing that out though. Yes, large amounts of global recharge breaks this game.

"The same level of synergy" isn't a sufficiently meaningful description. Synergy at what is important.

Brutes, Scrappers and even Tankers need their powers to do two things solo, and (sometimes) three on a team. Those two things they need solo are survive and deal damage. The third thing, primarily useful on teams, is aggro control/management. Sometimes, the third thing is achieved in ways that overlap with the first two. For example, if you have AoE mezzes or knockdown, this serve to both manage aggro on a team and provide mitigation for you (whether teamed or solo).

When you mix powersets, you get various levels of all three of these functions, depending on what powers you choose and how you slot them. It's important to consider that you can take powersets with high performance and build them below their peak potential, and that you can take powersets with low performance and shore them up with your other powerset and pool powers. This capability is a source of endless disagreement on the forums about how well certain powesets perform, because they are impossible to experience in a vacuum without deliberate testing which is unavoidably an unrealistic play scenario. People perceive the performance of their whole character, and then use that to defend (or harp on) a powerset's capabilities when considered on its own.

No mater how you get there, there's a performance level that's good enough to play the game. I think it's arguable that Electric Armor has always been at or above that level. However, I think it also currently lags its peer powersets, primarily because they have either have more tools at their disposal, sometimes simply better ones, and sometimes both.

So the complaint against the set's performance is one of relative performance. People don't campaign for improvements to Electric Armor because they can't make an Electric Armor character that's viable. It's that you can make a more survivable character with nearly any other secondary even when building something with relatively poor synergies.There are absolutely times where Electric Armor as it stands today can fare better than its peers. Exposure to largely energy-typed damage comes to mind. However, playing ElA through the game's standard content (something I am wont to do with every character I level up), I perceive that other powesets end up with better performance across all foes and situations, across a wide variety of build options. I find it compelling when that lines up with "paper" analysis.

I have made a point of playing to Electric Armor's focus of end drain as active mitigation, and have always found it wanting compared to other means of mitigation found in other sets, direct or indirect. I also have experienced the relative performance of the set through playing alongside other players using it. I don't often play on random pugs, but rather with a consistent core of very veteran, usually very savvy players, who understand the game's powers, how to leverage foe AI, positioning for optimal power effects, and so forth. To my knowledge, they have never considered the set a reasonable FotM except briefly in PvP when Energy Melee/Manipulation had high positions on the food chain.

The lack of a self heal, +HP, or +regen has been singled out in the past as one of the prime reasons for ElA to lag other sets, and a standout difference between ElA and other sets. (It was also identified as one of the problems for EA as well, but EA also had some other issues.) I think it's telling that the devs have offered it something along these lines as a benefit. This is beta and nothing is firm; things aren't firm even after they go live. That said, I think this set of changes looks very good, and by no means out of line with other powersets.