I wonder if the fact that Resistance also comes with its debuff resistance automatically has something to do with it, combined with the distinct difference in the amount of Defense Debuff compared to Resistance Debuff in the game?
For most characters (ie non-SR / Shields / Ice Defense) even if you add defense you're still likely to come across more Defense Debuffers in the game and since you've no resistance to Defense Debuff you can undergo a cascading debuff where all your Defense is stripped from you.
Resistance is far more steady, it automatically resists Resist debuffs inately and there's far fewer Resistance debuff attacks in the game (Nullifiers, Wailers and Goldbrickers red-side. Not even sure what there is Blue side).
Conceptually, I've always far preferred Resistance over Defense. Superman doesn't dodge that bullt you know, he ignores the thing and lets it bounce off! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Conceptually, I've always far preferred Resistance over Defense. Superman doesn't dodge that bullt you know, he ignores the thing and lets it bounce off!
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Wouldn't work for Batman tho would it?
Thelonious Monk
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Conceptually, I've always far preferred Resistance over Defense. Superman doesn't dodge that bullt you know, he ignores the thing and lets it bounce off!
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Wouldn't work for Batman tho would it?
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That's why he's a defense type.
Besides which, Defense really isn't portrayed well in the game. When was the last time you say a def based char actually dodging incoming attacks? The bleeding things STILL hit, you just get a "MISS" appear in this air, or take less damage than usual...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
With high enough resis any character ingame could become almost unbeatable in pve. With def however there is ALWAYS that chance that a few lucky shots will get through and KO you.
In a large spawn, think anyone would rather have a resis based character rather than a def. Most of the capped def builds tend to be for people who solo more often or are aiming to do certain challenges [RWZ challenge as an example]
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Conceptually, I've always far preferred Resistance over Defense. Superman doesn't dodge that bullt you know, he ignores the thing and lets it bounce off!
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Wouldn't work for Batman tho would it?
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That's why he's a defense type.
Besides which, Defense really isn't portrayed well in the game. When was the last time you say a def based char actually dodging incoming attacks? The bleeding things STILL hit, you just get a "MISS" appear in this air, or take less damage than usual...
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Well if stuff does miss you due to defenses the blast will go wayward. Of course that just looks like standard henchman shooting incompetence rather than your heightened reflexes letting you leap out of the way and avoid the bullet.
Or better yet, combine both.
My invuln/SS tanker in PvE has smashing/lethal resistances at 90%, the others in their 30%s and obviously nothing to Psi but combine also having typed defense (not Positional which is what sets like SR and Shields are) has softcapped defenses to all but psi with one foe in Invincibility range.
So it makes an already pretty tough set (Invulnerability) into a very very tough set.
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why u think i like invul u get both the superman affect and the batman affect
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Conceptually, I've always far preferred Resistance over Defense. Superman doesn't dodge that bullt you know, he ignores the thing and lets it bounce off!
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Wouldn't work for Batman tho would it?
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That's why he's a defense type.
Besides which, Defense really isn't portrayed well in the game. When was the last time you say a def based char actually dodging incoming attacks? The bleeding things STILL hit, you just get a "MISS" appear in this air, or take less damage than usual...
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Nah that's CO lol, in CoX everything except for AoE powers actually miss you if they 'miss'
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
Best time when defences failed;
Was running with a friend, testing an MA arc. He was blithely making mincemeat of my EB foes with his tanked-to-the-gills Nightwidow. He was about to polish off the fire Blaster boss....when he hit Inferno.
Boom. One dead Nightwidow. I proceeded to point and laugh while he sat there in disbeleif XD
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I wonder if the fact that Resistance also comes with its debuff resistance automatically has something to do with it, combined with the distinct difference in the amount of Defense Debuff compared to Resistance Debuff in the game?
For most characters (ie non-SR / Shields / Ice Defense) even if you add defense you're still likely to come across more Defense Debuffers in the game and since you've no resistance to Defense Debuff you can undergo a cascading debuff where all your Defense is stripped from you.
Resistance is far more steady, it automatically resists Resist debuffs inately and there's far fewer Resistance debuff attacks in the game (Nullifiers, Wailers and Goldbrickers red-side. Not even sure what there is Blue side).
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But stacking certain 'debuffs' is deadly on any occasion. A fire (pre temp.prot change) getting alot -slow was doomed to die also, since healing flames could never recharge. A class that rely heavy on dmg (kill before killed) will basicly meet his end if you face alot of -dark.
Added, defence will make mezz powers 'miss', rather that resist 'stack'. We all remember the energy melee tsoo, resist based eventualy meet his doom because there is way too much stacking stun. A non-mezz protected toon has way more survivability with defence then resist, mezzed = toggle drop = no resist. The change a mezz will hit with softcap is rather small.
This also goes for psi, location based defence blocks everything, resist has no to very little psi resist and will get heavy hit.
Its not really the affect versus mobs, but why is there so freaking huge difference in IO-bonus regarding def vs resist.
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it's one thing I really wish the dev's would look into. Just about every recipe set out there buffs the power you slot it into. off the top of my head there are only recipe sets that buff toxic resistance and most of those aren't even Dam Res sets but set bonuses elsewhere. When a healing set buffs your healing powers or regeneration, a slow set or a hold set adds to those powers, why can't a Dam Res set buff your Dam res? Even 1-3% or a big boost to only one type would do!
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@Miss Chief
Just to note some Psi has no positional component, I don't think its been fixed at least
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They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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Just to note some Psi has no positional component, I don't think its been fixed at least
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Didn't think that was a bug that needing fixing. I thought conceptually psi damage isn't near or far it's inside your head.
Or maybe it's inside the head of the person attacking - and so can only miss if the attacker imagines themselves missing... EIther way - it's in someone's head/imagination.
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Its not really the affect versus mobs, but why is there so freaking huge difference in IO-bonus regarding def vs resist.
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I'd love to know the answer to this too. I'm not someone who massively IOs out all of my toons, but I like to close holes where I see them such as overcoming the run debuff on my Stone Tanker.
On my SS/Fire Brute, even with Fire Shield and Tough, I'm still only just over 50% resist to Smash/Lethal. I'd love to be able to get an extra few percent on that if I could but its something that the inventions system just doesn't seem to be geared for. Sure I could go for +Def but it doesn't fit with the concept of the character.
Maybe, if we're lucky, this is something that the rumoured 'global slots' might be able to cover in the future.
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Conceptually, I've always far preferred Resistance over Defense. Superman doesn't dodge that bullt you know, he ignores the thing and lets it bounce off!
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And that is covered by the ingame workings of Defence.
If it bounces off, it's doing no damage.
If it's doing no damage, then by the ingame mechanics, it's not landed. (due the the presence of resist caps, since 100% resist is impossible to achieve, you can't have a resist based toon who ignores attacks. They always have some effect.)
Ergo, Defence.
It's also been stated a couple of times by the devs in posts now long since purged, that attacks 'bouncing off' is conceptually, in the game mechanics world, Defence.
Ice Armour doesn't make you harder to hit. It makes you harder to land a telling blow on as the ice deflects all bar a portion of incoming attacks, so they do no damage. The same goes with Shield Defence and Stone Armour.
The fact that high defence toons have an added advantage of effectively higher mez protection (due to mezzes not landing) is a side bonus, and another reason why people tend to chase defence over resist. That, and the fact that getting high defence through sets and pools is far, far easier than getting high resist values.
(all the above IMO only, of course)
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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The reason i put this here, i would like the devs/rednames to see it and perhaps clarify this. Is the goal defence valore, is there a reason why resist is so 'little' in IO sets and does the 2:1 rule still apply?
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They should start by applying this rule to some powers, because if you look at Sonic vs FF/Cold, it's 1.33:1 (or 1.5:1, but never 2:1).
Anyone can get defense powers... Few can get that many resist powers...
I've got to say that as someone who's never delved deep into game mechanics most if the posts (including the OPs) are beyond me.
I am actually quite happy with that
Thelonious Monk
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I've got to say that as someone who's never delved deep into game mechanics most if the posts (including the OPs) are beyond me.
I am actually quite happy with that
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Care to enlighten?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I've got to say that as someone who's never delved deep into game mechanics most if the posts (including the OPs) are beyond me.
I am actually quite happy with that
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Care to enlighten?
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We're all nerds who take this game way to serious, he isn't.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I've got to say that as someone who's never delved deep into game mechanics most if the posts (including the OPs) are beyond me.
I am actually quite happy with that
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Care to enlighten?
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We're all nerds who take this game way to serious, he isn't.
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^^ That
It's fun reading, but I start yawning when I think of figuring it all out
Me want play game, go smash! 
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We're all nerds who take this game way to serious, he isn't.
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Well its very uncommon for devs to actualy post the exact formula's of game mechanics, or even add it in game (the roll thingies, along with combatnumbers).
There are quite alot of people here being hit by every nerfstick in the game, be it ED (the end of superhigh resist/defence), be it the defense system (the old tohit vs acc issue).
If you dont care about this all, so be it, leave this topic be. Although the chances are very slim we ever get a reply on this mather on this board, i will keep topic ready for the board-merge and ask it again.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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I've got to say that as someone who's never delved deep into game mechanics most if the posts (including the OPs) are beyond me.
I am actually quite happy with that
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Care to enlighten?
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We're all nerds who take this game way to serious, he isn't.
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Scarletts "Games Mechanics" area of the brain is occupied by the mysterious and jargon-ridden world of Cricket instead. (I literally have no idea what people commenting on cricket are actually saying).
There's only so many obscure rules systems one can store in the human mind.
On my continues quest of altoholism, i often check around for viable builds and tactics, both here and the US boards.
Apart from the fact 99% of the builds include a influence-spending of wich most still only can dream of, they talk about sets as if they have a 20 of them stored in the SG base.
But the thing i noticed most, defence. Defence this, softcap that, turboslot this, monsterslot that, only to achieve a huge defence to typed or location.
What happened here? In the very old days when they changed the whole hit vs def check system devs stated resist versus defence is a ratio of 2:1 (20% resist equal 10% defence).
As i am still the 'oldie', i rely mostly on resist. If you know the dmg, you know what to expect, not 'hoping' you get hit. Every bit of defence is nice to have then.
On the sets itself it is also very noticable, sets giving 1.88 upto 3% defence, while the resist versions are either 10-30 sets or give 0.88 upto 2.50% (10% aoe MM excluded). True, you can get quite nice resist also by your shields, PP shields and tough, but everything beyond this is fairly equal. Defence wise you have a trashload of possiblities, leadership, leaping, hover, trashload of set-IO's, while resist is close to impossible (even frankenslotted i managed to get 19% extra SL resist, while the same i can do nearly 40% defence).
My new brute (elec/fire) has serious problems getting decent resist-levels, even if i had a billion inf. He can get soft-cap defence so freaking easy while he aint even have a def-based armorset.
Ok true, pvp was with 'unresistable' dmg a very bad thing for resist-based people (serious, on my granite is was a plain joke - from nearly immortal to a punching bag)
The reason i put this here, i would like the devs/rednames to see it and perhaps clarify this. Is the goal defence valore, is there a reason why resist is so 'little' in IO sets and does the 2:1 rule still apply?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!