Farm Exploit?

After a hilarious yet tragic experience last night with some new players who didn't know what they were doing, and who were being exploited by so-called RL friends (who were in their 30s, inviting their friends who were level 5 and 8, to a mission which ran from 1-50 (and so didn't have auto-sk) I have come to a conclusion which has been touted many times and would seem the most obvious way of reducing a part of the powerlevelling missions which continue to clutter the MA: Remove the auto-SK feature.

That, I believe will (in part) reduce the appeal of levelling from 1-50 in the quickest time.

Another move which I strongly believe would 'help' is to promote the forums. The attitude of the people in this ill-fated/hilarious team (bar the poor lv 5 and lv 8 players) was that 1-50 is too slow (!) and that level 50 is the only real level worth having. So that's why they (badly) tried to get there as soon as possible. I think that, on the whole, if more people were on these forums then the playerbase that actually does want to team and experience content and have that all-elusive 'fun' could say hello to the new peeps and, y'know, maybe put forward the argument that actually the game is fun and sometimes getting from 1-50 in a day isn't the most economical way of using your subscription.

The team last night didn't even know how the sidekick system worked, why a level 5 'healer' won't really help out a level 34 tank in terms of recovering lost hit points and when the team wiped (apart from me and another either lucky or sensible person) cried 'We need a better team. This is rubbish.'

And to be honest I just couldn;t bring myself to impart knowledge of these systems to the team because it was all falling on deaf ears. I think I managed a 'low levels, go, create a team, experience the Hollows and Steel Canyon and Kings Row. This game doesn't take place solely in Atlas Park AE' and then left, not sure if I wanted to laugh or cry.

Then I went and did some RP in Galaxy and all was well with the World.

Yes, My issue is with the Powerlevelling for the most part.
If they can find a way to reduce that its a big win. If they can find a way to return Atlas Park to the new beginning players that a big win for me.

Yes, now it would be a nerf and people don't like nerfs (me included). Originally though it was only Devs choises that where meant to give full xp. Guess they found out they had no chance to keep a close eye on every arc and determine which deserved said status.

But how can they reduce the PL without reducing the amount of xp?
Wonder if Arctics -Remove autosk feature would be a good move. As yes Dave, the nerfing of xp would as you say have no effect. (Other then make a lot of people angry)

Removing the MA building would hopefully remove some of the PL of new recruits. Loved it when they previously had to go to Peregrine and ask for team there. Atleast it was some distance away from the beginning zone.

I'd rather see they implement rikti-raid style levels. That is all foes are your level inside MA and outside, or higher if you've set a higher diff setting.

That would also make it entertaining to roam Atlas/Mercy!

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I'd rather see they implement rikti-raid style levels. That is all foes are your level inside MA and outside, or higher if you've set a higher diff setting.

That would also make it entertaining to roam Atlas/Mercy!

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^ Not a bad idea.
And yeah, levels as a whole are something I've been trying to think of ways to get rid of for a while. No evil luck so far

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

You're never going to remove the incentive for players to level 1-50 in the shortest time. It doesn't matter what you do, o who they ban, or what the devs restrict EVERYONE in the game from doing.


Farming will exist as long as games with levels and items that can be reaped from repeating the same action over again.

Well, at least that way there won't be minions auto+5 for PL'd and basically you could ditch the whole LK/SK/malf/mentor code.

Btw, I'm still amazed ppl keep debating this, like the energizer bunnies... It goes on and on and on and... well...

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You're never going to remove the incentive for players to level 1-50 in the shortest time. It doesn't matter what you do, o who they ban, or what the devs restrict EVERYONE in the game from doing.


Farming will exist as long as games with levels and items that can be reaped from repeating the same action over again.

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I'm pretty sure the devs know that - what they want to do is stop the 1-50 being quite so fast

@Razor_Shultz
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You're never going to remove the incentive for players to level 1-50 in the shortest time. It doesn't matter what you do, o who they ban, or what the devs restrict EVERYONE in the game from doing.


Farming will exist as long as games with levels and items that can be reaped from repeating the same action over again.

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No-one can remove farming, but they don't have to make it easy. People who know better what MA's are has already stoped doing them. Example I don't do MA's at all, because there isn't anything more than farming. Sure, they could be some good missions too, but teams are not doing them, they just farm.

MA = Faming and powerleveling.

If someone says it could be more, yes it could be, but it isn't. MA's idea is good, but how it's done, is badly done.

@Golden_Girl
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I'm pretty sure the devs know that - what they want to do is stop the 1-50 being quite so fast

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It's not about stoping farmers fast leveling.

In my opinion it's more about stoping it's affect to new players and all other normal mission players. New players should do normal missions, because they haven't seen them before. Those missions will teach them to play in teams and allows them to feel what this game is all about.

@General

Now at the moment, MA's offers super fast leveling option. Basicly in my opinion MA's have very bad effect in this games future, if it has one. Not because MA isn't fine as idea, but because farmers and powerleveling are abusing it and draging alot of new players in they ways to play this game. Also while they do that they limit normal players options where to get team members. Basicly spliting the CoX community two diffrent team potential pool.

How to fix it?

- Level limits, no auto sidekicking or allow 1-50 be in same teams. Example, zone limits could affects MA missios what you see in the MA list. So, In Atlas zone, MA's enemies are between level 1-5. Just put MA offices in other zones.

- Quality check by Company before any MA can be played by others than creator. Meaning, that company check players ready made mission, before it even shows to others in list. So, that players knows that it's okey mission. No missions where all enemies are just green balls. After MA is accepted to public list, it can't be changed by it's creator. Player can test MA's with others, while creator is team leader, but no-one gets rewards or exp while doing it.

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- Quality check by Company before any MA can be played by others than creator. Meaning, that company check players ready made mission, before it even shows to others in list. So, that players knows that it's okey mission. No missions where all enemies are just green balls. After MA is accepted to public list, it can't be changed by it's creator. Player can test MA's with others, while creator is team leader, but no-one gets rewards or exp while doing it.

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And that's the perfect solution that should be implemented iff NC/PS resources are limitless.

As it happens they are not limitless.

So NC/PS decided to have the first pass of content filtering performed by the community. If you find MA arcs farming exploits report them. That works if the community want it to - but it fails miserably if you just turn your back on the MA system.

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- Level limits, no auto sidekicking or allow 1-50 be in same teams. Example, zone limits could affects MA missios what you see in the MA list. So, In Atlas zone, MA's enemies are between level 1-5. Just put MA offices in other zones.


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Doesn't stop abuse and it appears to be a cornerstone of MA that it's easy to use (both design and play) and open to all. That means even lvl 1s. I also believe that auto-SK/exemp is part of that ease of use making all missions accesible to all characters.

The problems you see are not due to AE being in Atlas, but are due to the system allowing missions to be set up so that they provide a risk:reward ratio that is skewed far from the accepted range.
That's the issue that needs to be tackled. And there are multiple ways to tackle it without completely removing auto-SK or nerfing MA into practical non-existence.

And acting (and being seen to act) upon the threats of retribution that Posi (iirc) made could help deter abhorrent misuse of MA. Heck - it's been long enough. Punish people for actions in the past month and they were given fair warning.

See the way i see it, you got the JD type of people, realists.

And then you got the Victoria type people, i call them purists.

Sadly if the purists end up getting their way there will be 3 people left in the MA, because no one will use it.

Thats why Victoria, you are [censored] in the wind. More than anything this needs to be a popular, as in well populated add on and they aint going to do anything to flatten that.

They can do without another disaster at this time.

Don't forget about those who don't give a hootenanny either way any more Londoner.

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Don't forget about those who don't give a hootenanny either way any more Londoner.

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Yea that would be me

I dont care what they do with it anymore.

BlueRabbit, Londoner and I all with the same line of thought? Just doesn't seem normal to me

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Sadly if the purists end up getting their way there will be 3 people left in the MA, because no one will use it.

Thats why Victoria, you are [censored] in the wind. More than anything this needs to be a popular, as in well populated add on and they aint going to do anything to flatten that.

They can do without another disaster at this time.

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What's the point of having MA if there is only farmers, powerlevers and new people as victims who has no clue what's the CoH is all about.

MA is farmers paradise, notting else, most of others has allready stoped using MA's.

So, basicly I see as better option not to have MA than have them like they are now. Because it spoils the new commers. How ever, better option would be fix MA's so that they aren't just for farmers and powerlevelers.

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Sadly if the purists end up getting their way there will be 3 people left in the MA, because no one will use it.

Thats why Victoria, you are [censored] in the wind. More than anything this needs to be a popular, as in well populated add on and they aint going to do anything to flatten that.

They can do without another disaster at this time.

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What's the point of having MA if there is only farmers, powerlevers and new people as victims who has no clue what's the CoH is all about.

MA is farmers paradise, notting else, most of others has allready stoped using MA's.

So, basicly I see as better option not to have MA than have them like they are now. Because it spoils the new commers. How ever, better option would be fix MA's so that they aren't just for farmers and powerlevelers.

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I agree with you sort of, but i dont think the MA should have happened at all.

But now that it has, it just amazes me that people, and especially the devs seem surprised that this is how its ended up.

I remember the very FIRST day it was announced and the very First thought i had, and posted on here, was thats handy we can now make farms.

And for every creative genius there are 100 like me sadly, how else did they think it was going to end up being used.

And all im saying to you is (in my opinion) the devs aint going to radically change it, despite all the shouting and hooting they did about it being abused, because if they do alter it to the point where xp aint good, no one will use it, and they will have wasted a year developing another dead dog.

And thusly end up looking very silly again, at least now they can call it a success, because it is widely used.

The other way to look at it is that farms - done a certain way - offer up more of a challenge for experienced teams than something like a radio mission on invincible.

Personally I couldn't give a hoot about more XP or influence. What I want is more of a challenge - or at least a balanced mission that requires the team to be on it's toes to avoid getting wiped.

I had great fun a few nights ago in a MA farm. The mobs were all level 52 bosses.

Killer Bunny Bosses, to be precise.

It took all we had to avoid getting swamped by those vicious, adorable, maniac Bunnies from Hell. Everyone on the mission agreed that it was excellent fun, and I'll do it again sometime soon.

The fact that the XP rate was phenomenal was purely incidental. It was the challenge that made it so much fun.

Only thing is, I now have disturbing dreams of fluffy, savage Bunnies that want to slaughter me

I wouldn't describe myself as a farmer - by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't care about higher XP or influence, and indeed I often do so called MA farm missions on a level 50 character and then give away millions of influnce after it.

I do certain farms purely for the challenge alone, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this thinking.

You've nailed something I've already spoken about, Cobra. Yes, the XP is lovely, but the challenge is great too.

Take a solo mission.. Three minions in a spawn. Next spawn is a lieutenant and a minion, the next is one boss.

Challenging? No, not really. Not even entertaining. There is a reason why people love going to hazard zones and get big spawns.

I think MA will get quite a drop in popularity once we get I16 and the new difficulty slider.

I think that was a key point you just made. Hazard zones have been made over into other kinds of zones, and no new ones added in their place. MA gives you the old style spawn sizes

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BlueRabbit, Londoner and I all with the same line of thought? Just doesn't seem normal to me

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Scary isn't it!

Well, I've been playing a new fire/kin alt from level 1 (skipped tutorial) to level 43 (I think) Almost totally MA only. I haven't joined 6+ teams and I haven't really looked for the greatest MA farms. It's been nice not having to travel/zone all the time (one of the main reasons I don't do much hero side stuff), but sure, I've done a lot of repeats.

Now; does my lack of badges etc and me repeating missions constantly make me a farmer or PL'er? As I see it it's pretty much the same as I do with my 50s: ITF, ITF, 5SF, ITF, ITF, RSF - and repeat.

Among other things, I've been trying out a new arc, but instead of "testing" it, I publish it and get some XP out of it. The current iteration, marked as work in progress could easily be called a farm/exploit, because it currently only has loads of lieutenants and a single mission. Should I loose a slot for that? I've died on several occations while trying it. Does that make it ok? I've levelled faster with this fire/kin troller than usually solo - should I be spanked for that?

One man's farm is another man's serious mission with the emphasis on fun: Another example: One mission I found had TONS, LOADS of liutenants that also spawned LOADS of ambushes, even on solo play. It was hard to take it seriously, but it was also some of the most fun I've had in a looong time trying to stay alive, spam transference, fulcrum, holds while shewing purples madly. For once, I was really happy, I had really, really enjoyed CoX. Even the faint memory of it still makes me smile.

(Sort of like the P.O. mission at level 15 that had Elite PPs only, lvl 52 that Dark Zzorg (aka The Collector) and me actually finally finished, God that was a great bug)

Thing is: There's always gonna be a farm, a grind, a way to PL. You can keep "balancing" forever, but eventually you make the game bland and "flat", it's "all the same" boring repetitive stuff without any surprises. The MA is indeed a PL/farm tool but keep changing it backwards (e.g. removing stuff) and it'll be totally useless, except for the 3-4 ppl that enjoy doing generic, random cave missions or something.

Leave it be and it's a problem until we get the new diff settings (and might be after that as well since people don't notice new stuff) but at least it's still useful and possibly fun. Just give us some proper search tools and a favourite/bookmarks tab (Yes, I know you can search "voted" arcs but that's not the same when you've tried a lot of arcs).

Another thing would be to give us some incentive to try different arcs instead of grinding the same 5 repeatedly.

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BlueRabbit, Londoner and I all with the same line of thought? Just doesn't seem normal to me

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Scary isn't it!


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I think they're being merged, for one concentrated line of thought on the new forums - CynicalLondonRabbit

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The MA is indeed a PL/farm tool but keep changing it backwards (e.g. removing stuff) and it'll be totally useless, except for the 3-4 ppl that enjoy doing generic, random cave missions or something.

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So, basicly you say here that when I do normal mission with team, I would not be able to get full team of players? Just wondering if we play same game.

I would call it more like 50%/50% player base situation.

PS: My team search and my character descriptions reads: No farm missions. Strange is that no-one has invited me to any MA missions, but I do get invites in normal missions every day.

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I think that was a key point you just made. Hazard zones have been made over into other kinds of zones, and no new ones added in their place. MA gives you the old style spawn sizes

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And darn fun they can be too.

I'm happy to join any team that's doing missions Red Side, got some decent PuGs over the weeks, ranging from Duos to full teams doing Malta. But if there's none going then I go and solo my chosen Shake and Bake farm mission on my Brute instead. Dealing with masses of enemies is much more fun than 2 or 3 at a go.

Plus its letting me IO up easier than with normal content. For one thing I can avoid the stupid Black Market interface more and just get my Salvage from Random Rolls or just purchasing them with tickets.

If there are that many new players, the AE did its job. The devs are not about to geld it to make people play with you. I did 7 tf's between 2 servers this weekend. There are plenty of teams out there, you have to find them.

I am getting tired with the complaining about new players. When we started playing, we were shown the ropes. Last week I took a new player, helped him get to lvl 7, showed him the hollows, kings row, steel canyon etc. Even tp'd him to the costume shop to make some alterations. Gave him some inf to start him out right. That guy will probably stick around, as opposed to those you kick from your team because they dont have enough vet badges.