Well, same goes for hostages etc, so... why glowies? 
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Well, same goes for hostages etc, so... why glowies?
[/ QUOTE ]
The sound of them is soothing?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Pft you want a challenge? Create a small outdoor mission map with EVERYTHING on hard patrols. Now THATS a non stop carnage challenge!
Having a constant nonstop wave of enemies ambushing you aint half fun! 
Even better when you name them all "agent smiths"
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Nice idea! Gotta do that on 2nd account (just to be sure I don't get smacked for "farming")
[ QUOTE ]
Nice idea! Gotta do that on 2nd account (just to be sure I don't get smacked for "farming")
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I actually sent a petition against myself to see if it could be considered a farm but the risk element is too high to be considered a farm apparantly.
Though it is pretty obvious its one of the "lol!!! omg [censored]?!?! " kind of missions where you really have to be on your toes just to survive As a big fan of non stop carnage/fighting against nonstop waves of enemies it seemed the perfect kind of mission to myself personally.
Then again i suppose if you added even a single ally to the mission then it could be considered a farm straight away.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I started play CoH again after long break. My first expression about AE was not good, because this happen. I was lvl 8 scrapper when I got my first team invite (without trying to get). It was invite to some AE mission.
I had no clue what AE missions was so, I was happy to trying it my first time. So, what was it?
There was alot of lvl 49 green balls (hamilton) or something like that. So, I was little confused what lvl 8 can do against lvl 49 enemies as I was not sidekicked. When leader sayed target trough my character, I assummed I can hit them. So, I started to hit them. They seem not to fight back at all. So, I did this while when I figured that this hole missions was just full of these green balls. I was thinking to quit team, but I never quit team middle of missions.
So, I played the missions with others. Now what's the bad thing?
With that one mission my character did go from lvl 8 to lvl 15. That is not what I wanted, so I had to delete my character and start over. Of cause as been just lvl 8, it wasn't big deal.
How ever, I don't think some people understand that some players don't powerlevel or farm, they actually try to have fun and enjoy the missions and stories in this game.
What's the farm expoit?
If You can get 7 levels in one missions from enemies what doesn't even fight back, I consider that exploit.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
What's the farm expoit?
If You can get 7 levels in one missions from enemies what doesn't even fight back, I consider that exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]Uuuuuhm, yes. A bloody blatant one on top of that.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Developer's view on the situation.
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You're like our very own mobile Pwnz section.
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Developer's view on the situation.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're like our very own mobile Pwnz section.
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ROFL 
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There used to be loads of farming. Things have grown more quiet nowadays farmwise. If only because the Dev's made it clear that they will not tolerate farming.
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More quiet yes, but I am not so sure it has decreased that much. I get invites for AE mission teams pretty much every time I log in (sometimes even if the toon has "no farming" in the search text) and in the majority of the cases it is for farming missions.
Stepping into Atlas during prime time, you will certainly see non-stop farming requests and invites. Those farm maps with bombs are most popular; and every hour or so, you would hear people organising boss farm.
I have been getting endless amount of blind invites to a MA farm team; both in heroes and in villains. Not hard to spot which is a farm team: why there are disproportional amount of lowbies in the team where there are just not enough mentors or masters to go around.
MA farming is still very much alive and well; and no sign of stopping or even fading either. I have a coalition friend, if I could even call him that (he has been asking of nothing but me to PL him), who PL-ed his first hero scrapper from 1-50 in a matter of days. Not the fastest (shame on him!) but still unconventionally fast. He has been farming everyday in Atlas; knows very little about the game as well (where's the tailor; where's the entrance to RWZ; how to get into Midnight Clubhouse).
I think I am tired of objecting farming and PLing. The reality is: both activities have become a prominent and salient part of CoX. The concept of effort-vs-reward has long lost in some (that means you Positron!).
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I think this say it all.
Basicly I don't mind if some people farm, I mean it's they own choise. How ever, often those choise affects others, like.
Getting invites to team what's just farming, what is little annoyed. Team breaking up, because half the team wants to do farming and other half not. Farming lowers the accomplishment in this game. It also split the current population as one half is farming and other half not. Meaning it makes general teaming harder as it would not be allready harder enough with this low player base in servers.
In my opinion they should remove all exp from MA missions. These missions should not replace games normal missions, they should be there to do for fun when player has allready done most missions. Also removing exp from MA missions would raise the quality of the MA missions. Basicly lower the number of them and trying to make them more fun, not about exp.
Well thankfully you're not one of the game designers.
People who pay their subs should be allowed to farm because farming helps create supply and demand, and in normal missions helps to pump purples into the economy which you buy.
And without farmers there'd be significantly less inf and purples floating around so the prices would skyrocket.
And as long as they don't negatively affect anyone else (don't give me spamming invites or teamsplits QQ they happen anyway) they should be allowed to do as they want.
Farming isn't (but can be) an exploit, but usually it's harmless.
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Well thankfully you're not one of the game designers.
People who pay their subs should be allowed to farm because farming helps create supply and demand, and in normal missions helps to pump purples into the economy which you buy.
And without farmers there'd be significantly less inf and purples floating around so the prices would skyrocket.
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How does exp affect this? I mean, you get those even without exp.
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And as long as they don't negatively affect anyone else (don't give me spamming invites or teamsplits QQ they happen anyway) they should be allowed to do as they want.
Farming isn't (but can be) an exploit, but usually it's harmless.
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That's the problem, farming does harms others and it's not harmless. If it's done by few friend with togather, it's mostly harmless, but that's not how it happens in CoX.
How ever, I don't comment more, because what ever I say, has no meaning to you at all. Because You just gonna dismish any other argument, like you allready did. So, no point to show the other view points.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
People who pay their subs should be allowed to farm because farming helps create supply and demand, and in normal missions helps to pump purples into the economy which you buy.
[/ QUOTE ]That is only half correct. Yes, farming increases supply and demand, but with MA and with PLed people demanding certain pieces of salvage and recipes only (because anything that is not for the "final spec" is not worth the effort time-wise) this increase is not universally healthy for the economy.
And most people who can afford buying purples regularly are often farmers themselves, so this influx is ultimately self-serving and not really for the benefit of the economic community as a whole.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
And without farmers there'd be significantly less inf and purples floating around so the prices would skyrocket.
[/ QUOTE ]This statement is in crass contradiction with logic and facts: How could prices possibly skyrocket with less inf around? And how comes that prices have skyrocketed with the arrival of MA and the golden age of farming?
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
And as long as they don't negatively affect anyone else (don't give me spamming invites or teamsplits QQ they happen anyway) they should be allowed to do as they want.
[/ QUOTE ]Somebody who farms excessively and says that his farming has never affected anyone negatively is either ignorant or lying.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
Farming isn't (but can be) an exploit, but usually it's harmless.
[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, as long as we are talking about a casual amount of farming. Due to lack of insight into relevant statistics I can not say if this is "usual" or not.
I have nothing personal against farmers and decline invites to farming teams regularly and politely, but with farming it is just like with almost anything else: too much is poison.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
@Razor
I'm all for letting people do what they want, heck to get the last influence badges you have to do some farms. However.
Farming in itself generate more influence, yea you get more items to sell, however... Only those who farm themselves will be able to buy those recipes that has already skyrocketed far above that of the player population that do not farm.
In example, when Purples was launched the typical price of a purple was 50mill or thereabout. Now the same purple, after the Devs launched I-14 City of Farm and Powerlevel.. whops...
Now that same purple, after I-14, has dobbled or even become triple in price.
I do not buy the general sentence "Farming helps the economy" or similar sentence that you promote.
Now farming will be a part of any game, so we got to learn how to deal with it. I accept that farming is a part of a MMO's life.
BUT
And this goes to all the farmers out there.
Please do not include the beginners into your farms, don't powerlevel them. Farm with friends and other farmers, please. Don't invite the new beginners (check them for their vet badges) or we will have a growing amount of players that only know how Atlas or (hopefully mercy/Port oakes) Cap au Diable looks like.
After all you do want players to continue to play the game... and be possible customers for the recipes and salvage you put up on WW.. right (to use your argument).
I wish to see the farmers back in PI (yes I do).
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool
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@Razor
I'm all for letting people do what they want, heck to get the last influence badges you have to do some farms. However.
Farming in itself generate more influence, yea you get more items to sell, however... Only those who farm themselves will be able to buy those recipes that has already skyrocketed far above that of the player population that do not farm.
In example, when Purples was launched the typical price of a purple was 50mill or thereabout. Now the same purple, after the Devs launched I-14 City of Farm and Powerlevel.. whops...
Now that same purple, after I-14, has dobbled or even become triple in price.
I do not buy the general sentence "Farming helps the economy" or similar sentence that you promote.
Now farming will be a part of any game, so we got to learn how to deal with it. I accept that farming is a part of a MMO's life.
BUT
And this goes to all the farmers out there.
Please do not include the beginners into your farms, don't powerlevel them. Farm with friends and other farmers, please. Don't invite the new beginners (check them for their vet badges) or we will have a growing amount of players that only know how Atlas or (hopefully mercy/Port oakes) Cap au Diable looks like.
After all you do want players to continue to play the game... and be possible customers for the recipes and salvage you put up on WW.. right (to use your argument).
I wish to see the farmers back in PI (yes I do).
[/ QUOTE ]
I always check vet badges and player notes before inviting peole to my farms, usually I just use my own accounts and that of a few select players in my SG.
I am very impatient, so all my drops are sold cheap because I want the inf now, and every toon I IO I don't wanna type 250,000 and 300,000 over and over again so i tend to copy 550,000 and paste it into each one, meaning I pay over the odds for basic IO's just for sake of time and to stop me going nuts.
So,
I sell cheap,
I Buy dear,
I don't PL fresh players,
and I will consider returning to
PI very soon as i would like to start
getting nice drops again.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Well... It's sad to say, but I lost my interest in the game due to the architect farming (coupled with the 100kb size limit).
I am a bit tired of the usual content so architect was THE solution to draw me back to the game as I love to see new mobs and experience the unexpected.
Last time I was going down one by one the list of architect missions (starting with most popular), about 7 out of 10 were farm missions with bubble allies. I filed complaints to the devs about each of them
I just don't like to make or look for architect teams when people are likely to ask for a farm mission.
Farming always existed in the game and doing Frostfire multiple times never bothered most people I think. But at least there was a level limit to that mission. Not so with architect farming. You can level up from 1 to 50 with always the same mission.
First of all they need to remove the force field ally exploit. And then I thought of this suggestion: diminish xp for every time you play the same mission in architect. EDIT: You could then of course remove your farm arc and publish it with a new ID to gain full xp again, but at least it will make you lose your top spot at the list 
EDIT2: Maybe putting a level limit range on architect missions could be a good idea? For example you need to choose a range of 5 levels: from 1-5, 22-26, 43-47 etc. And/or abandon the automatic level adjustment feature (except when you are in test mode)? Farm teaming is so easy now because you can play at level 45+ without being sidekicked.
I like the ideas Don. Edit2 was a nice one. Just like Oreboros.
For me I stopped using the MA early. Ok, I've been in and out of that building, but I've not done alot of missions in it.
There is a few things that build up to this; Removal of alot of badges (There is now little insentive to keep me in the MA). The Devs war against farming which result in removing the used method of farming from the MA. (Less insentive for me to use the MA and create arcs)
The massive gain of XP for doing MA... etc. (I thank the Devs for giving us the "Turn XP on/off".)
As I see it, the easiest way to cut down on the powerlevelling is to do what was originally intended. Launch the MA with reduced xp (why it was given full xp from start I have no idea... but a change of heart with the Devs). Instead of removing items and thus giving Story-creators an invalid Arc, just to stop a farming tool... reduce the xp.
Had my shock yesterday since I finally had labelled my arc finished, then I find out that people cannot play it or find it. Reason... Something had happened to the destructive list and thus no destructive item had been "chosen".
Oh well... Hope the Devs have/will learn that most (not all) players want the easiest way of getting things. Scratch that... They should've known that by many issues ago. ;P
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool
It was given full xp to make sure it was a success and widely used.
They couldnt have wasted that much time on something then have it flop could they.
Thats why i cant see them reducing the xp, just my opinion of course.
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Farming always existed in the game and doing Frostfire multiple times never bothered most people I think. But at least there was a level limit to that mission. Not so with architect farming. You can level up from 1 to 50 with always the same mission.
[...snip...]
EDIT2: Maybe putting a level limit range on architect missions could be a good idea? For example you need to choose a range of 5 levels: from 1-5, 22-26, 43-47 etc. And/or abandon the automatic level adjustment feature (except when you are in test mode)? Farm teaming is so easy now because you can play at level 45+ without being sidekicked.
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I think you'll find the only real problem is the farming of arcs/missions with exploits. Farming non-exploitative missions is much the same as any in-game farming - there's a risk:reward within limits acceptable to the devs and it shouldn't be too far outside dev-content missions (though some characters may do slightly better due to picking mobs that they perform well against).
Exploits involving multiple buffing allies or exclusively using non-offensive mobs are both exploits as they reduce the risk to zero, so risk:reward shoots off the scale. The exploits provide something for nothing.
I'd say no to level ranges as you suggest. Yes it could hit farms, but IMO it would hit story writers as well by cutting down the potential audience they may have if they aim at anything other than the 45-50 range.
As a non-farmer, one of the great advantages to MA is that there are stories that I'm not going to outlevel. I can happily go off and play other arcs/TFs and dev-content and return and still play them at my natural level. It's also interesting at times to return to the odd arc that you enjoyed and see how it plays at a higher level.
I've never been on a MA farm SK'd - so there may be the odd error in the following, but this is how I think it currently works and what I'd look at changing if that is the case:
I think that the only issue you have with the levels is the characters auto-SKing to 45 whilst a 50 clears the map.
I'd look at tackling that problem a different way rather than impose level ranges and removing auto-SKs.
The issue is because the auto-SK 45s can have the work done by a 50 and so are sucking up lvl50+ foe xp at -5 levels to the highest in the team. So they're getting massive rewards.
If possible, I'd look at limiting the level range for xp/rewards where auto-SK is being used. So instead of a 5 level range for earning rewards (so a character needs to be within 5 levels of the highest team member to earn rewards) I'd look at a 3 or 4 level range if (and only if) auto-SK is used in the mission.
IIRC Nothing outside MA uses auto-SK (auto-exemp yes, but auto SK no) so this sort of change, if possible, would only affect MA arcs. And it should have minimal affect on teams that aren't PL'ing.
OK - you could still PL using bridges, SKing/exemping or using a MA misison with a 3 or 4-level range. But even just reducing the team level range would affect how much xp the lowest could earn, thus slowing PLing through AE. ANd if it's slowed then it becomes slightly less attractive.
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First of all they need to remove the force field ally exploit. And then I thought of this suggestion: diminish xp for every time you play the same mission in architect. EDIT: You could then of course remove your farm arc and publish it with a new ID to gain full xp again, but at least it will make you lose your top spot at the list
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I'd disagree with removing bubbling allies. A while back I suggested (in passing) that the number of allies with the same buffing sets be limited if possible. An author may have a legitimate story-based reason to want a bubbling ally for an arc, so keeping them in is good. What is less likely to have a story-reason and more likely to have an exploitative reason is to have 4 or 5 bubbling allies in a single mission. So a limit of 1 or 2 would leave them available for telling stories (which appears to be the devs prime rationale for the MA)
I wouldn't placed diminishing returns that last for ever on an arc (only ever do it once per character for full rewards). Diminishing returns for repeating a single arc within a short time period is too easy to sidestep. Publish the same arc multiple times (using multiple accounts if needed) and cycle through the copies. Even easier now that there are extra slots to purchase.
And what happens if you do the old 'don't finish the mission, exit & reset'? Does that count as doing the arc? If so, are you proposing that you get full rewards for the first time you start an arc? What if I start an arc then need to log or dc?
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Last time I was going down one by one the list of architect missions (starting with most popular), about 7 out of 10 were farm missions with bubble allies. I filed complaints to the devs about each of them
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AFAIK This is the correct course of action if you find exploitative farms - and helps the devs identify and remove them. If the MA exploit farms are putting you off then doing the odd play through/petition for a few of them should help the situation.
Maybe farms wouldn't even have got so bad if more people did this rather than stopping using the MA and posting about what a problem farming is.
BTW - if your idea about diminishing returns was implemented then, as you state, you may get a "unpublish and publish again" cycle for farms. Whilst that would remove the farms from the top of the rankings/search results it wouldn't help people to get exploitative farms removed (and the accompanying loss of slot for the author) as the exploitative farm would be removed and republished without having enough time to be banned/looked at by GMs.
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I just don't like to make or look for architect teams when people are likely to ask for a farm mission.
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IMO this is the wrong attitude and just helps the aspects you dislike ruin the game.
If you do like the non-farm MA content then you should make a team and when recruiting state that you're doing "non-farm story arcs" (or whatever). If after joining anyone starts asking for the big farm missions: remind them in team chat that you're doing non-farm stories and that you made this clear.
They can either carry on with the story arcs, leave or if they become disruptive use the old kick button - at least the whole team will know that you made the purpose of the team clear from the start and reminded the disruptive member about this.
If people who don't want farms shy away from the MA and running teams we end up with the current situation that many report: all MA teams seem to be farming arcs with exploits and teams that aren't are very hard to find.
You're either part of the problem or part of the solution...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Well, it would not have been a flop with reduced xp. It would have been less used yes, but we would have less farm maps. (I see that as a win).
I'd rather have that then removal of more factions and things in general, cause the Devs are responding instead of acting to what they don't like.
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool
[ QUOTE ]
As I see it, the easiest way to cut down on the powerlevelling is to do what was originally intended. Launch the MA with reduced xp (why it was given full xp from start I have no idea... but a change of heart with the Devs). Instead of removing items and thus giving Story-creators an invalid Arc, just to stop a farming tool... reduce the xp.
[/ QUOTE ]
So the issue you have seems to be with PLing, not with xp being awarded.
There will be ways and means to reduce/discourage PLing without removing (or even reducing) xp from the MA. Your solution is similar to the Judge Death school of policing. Punish everybody and the few who are the real problem will be dealt with.
Reduce the xp by just a few percent and it won't affect those farming exploits or using the auto-SK to mass PL.
Reduce the xp past a few percent and virtually no-one will play MA except maybe a few RP groups, challenge competitions and the odd SG/group arc (maybe a subset of the RPers).
Remove xp completely and even the latter group would probably diminish.
After stating that MA would have reduced xp/rewards the devs obviously went to full xp for a reason. And I don't think it was an oversight or just a whim - they did it in the belief that full xp (or such a high percentage that it may as well be full) was needed to make MA a success.
They'd have done better releasing at 75% or 80% then buffing it up to 90% or 100% if everythuing seemed fine, but the time to do that has passed.
Now it would be a nerf. Players don't like nerfs.
IMO at a drop to 75%-90% You'd probably get a lot of non-farmers put off MA hearing that xp had been nerfed but not neccesarily knowing the details. But the exploit farmers and the auto-SK PLers would still use it as the returns could still be better than most alternatives.
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Had my shock yesterday since I finally had labelled my arc finished, then I find out that people cannot play it or find it. Reason... Something had happened to the destructive list and thus no destructive item had been "chosen".
[/ QUOTE ]
And the secondary issue you have is how the devs react to exploits.
Can't really argue there - I'm no fan of their actions (in regard to unannounced MA assset-removal affecting legitimate arcs) and the apparently failed implementation (or non-use) of anti-exploit/farming measures that were mentioned before MA launched.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
Well, it would not have been a flop with reduced xp. It would have been less used yes, but we would have less farm maps. (I see that as a win).
I'd rather have that then removal of more factions and things in general, cause the Devs are responding instead of acting to what they don't like.
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Remove or lower the xp to any great extent and see what's left, you are kidding yourself if you think the MA would still be popular.
Edit, as always JD explained that better than me above.
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By the way... What's the point with all the glowies?
...don't get it, since the badges been on the "todo:remove" list forever!
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Leftovers from before I guess. Or maybe a way to get better spawn sizes since you can pick easy to hard for the spawn surrounding a glowie.