To me an exploit is using an automated bot, or getting under a map and killing things that cant target you.
Using what is legitimately available in the game, in my opinion, is not an exploit.
This is dead simple... playing smart is not exploiting.
An exploit is like getting under the map... obviously something that the Devs did not intend to happen.
Just because some teams have good synergy is not an expliot... otherwise you are exploiting everytime you make a toon that has good synergy of sets... you know?!
Omg you can't play that Forcefield / Dark Blast cause you are exploiting the -acc and +def.... [censored]!
Expoits are cheats,, comm officers were not a cheat, there was no game hacking involved to do it.
I personally didnt use the comm officer map as i didn't like the setup but there was nothing there that the devs didnt put there.
Exploits are Cheats/Hacks
Anything else, is just clever gaming.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
I think i agree with Londoner if its in the game and its not some kind of bug I don't see how it can be a exploit.
After all its not considered a exploit if you target hellions with a toon that dose cold damage even tho your exploiting the hellions weakness to cold is it?
Ok, in my opinion, exploit is anything that wasn't intended to give you something for nothing (or very little), but it does nevertheless, and can be reliably reproduced. How much that "something" is, and how many people know about it is besides the point. Back in Wild Wild Web days, everyone knew about phf exploit in Apache, - it was still an exploit. So, neither of your examples is an exploit, - it was either intended that way, has drawbacks, doesn't guaranteedly work or needs lots of time/experience to do,
Rikti comm officcers are a borderline case, - they are a threat, even all by themselves, they were just not balanced well. Some people exploited that.
Multi-bubbles, as used by farmers, were(and might be still, haven't checked) clearly an exploit. God mode for doing nothing.
An exploit is whatever they deem it to be.
@Crius
Bassai, Canadian Kid, Alruna, Kahi
Mistress Rad, Culpeo, Ms. Demeanor, Celsius
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. Let's go to work.
I have to disagree tho with the comm officers, exploiting is using the game in a way that shouldnt be. Very few exploits involve hacking the game, most are overlooked pieces of code that allow something that shouldn't let me lay down an example or two.
Com officers where an exploit because the experience given for defeating them was that of a lieut (even tho they where minion classed). An overlooked piece of code that cost alot. it is now fixed. no hacking was involved but it wasn't as intended. Abusing this fact by setting up maps full of only this mob type is a clear exploit. No one cant deny that.
A while back i stumbled upon a gap in Faultline that allowed you to go below the map. This was the way the developers released it! but it still doesn't excuse the fact that despite knowing where it was it shouldn't be used to go somewhere your not allowed.
In my opinion, we are going to see a lot of people playing the ignorant card. "Oh i didn't know". Which with a bit of luck the GM's will not take as an excuse. Anyone that played those maps of Rikti knew full well that they where farming. If not the first or second time they run it. The next few they sure caught on.
Things that are not exploits, are things that experience teaches you. Things that veteran players would know to do that other wouldn't. For example herding.
My two cents anyway 
And what do they deem exploits?
We would need a good and clear defenition from the devs but to give the said borderline examples.
Not exploit: kill communication officers. They were able to defend themselves and were valued "higher" because of them spawning portals and conscripts that gave NO exp or inf. It was UNBALANCED though and needed to be fixed. But, lets not get into balance. A lot of enemies have [censored] reward:risk ratio (because their debuffs are nasty etc). (thorns vs freaks is one example).
What is borderline exploit is melee only enemies that you can hover above and kill without getting hit. It is borderline because it is the everyday problem for any melee class in pvp and part of the game but the AI can't cope with it and thus is an exploit when used against computer controlled critters.
Please don't start arguing and flaming in THIS thread.
Just try to explain as clearly as possible what you consider to be an exploit. If unsure, check the original post.
There's been enough flames this month.
also, let's just leave the rikti com officers for now. It was interesting because it made that very thin line betweeen using and A-busing into something very emotional we could rage about one way or another.
Of course the IP holders, the owners can do whatever they want with the game, including making their own rules - and they do, they will do, and they have done - and it'll continue to upset people unless they're dead smack in the middle somehow. Let's not bother with what the-powers-that-be thinks - in this thread.
I wanna know what YOU, the players think. (and right now I don't care what you think about what others think, let's just not go there, PLEASE)
Some more examples:
- I DO have a bots/ff mastermind on my second account. Is using it with my primary account squishy corruptor an exploit? If I play against mainly or ONLY melee foes and that MM keeps them from getting close and/or harming me? Is it an exploit if I target missions that let me do it? Or if I use the MA to make grinding, boring missions that takes ages?
- What about badge hunts? Is it an exploit to stick your character in a mission, getting sappers to work you over while you watch another episode of Heroes? If you go down 'resting' taking damage while sleeping or going off to work?
[ QUOTE ]
- I DO have a bots/ff mastermind on my second account. Is using it with my primary account squishy corruptor an exploit? If I play against mainly or ONLY melee foes and that MM keeps them from getting close and/or harming me? Is it an exploit if I target missions that let me do it? Or if I use the MA to make grinding, boring missions that takes ages?
No you pay for both accounts thats just tactics like if the other char was a player its just tactics and nothing more.
- What about badge hunts? Is it an exploit to stick your character in a mission, getting sappers to work you over while you watch another episode of Heroes? If you go down 'resting' taking damage while sleeping or going off to work?
Thats just lazy 
but not exactly an exploit its a tough one tho but its been done for ages and nothings been said so take it from that
[/ QUOTE ]
An exploit is this and nothing more:
The taking advantage of, or usage of something which (in a GAME anyway) would allow players a significant advantage in any aspect of gameplay, which WAS NOT INTENTIONAL WHEN IT WAS DEVELOPED.
1) example of a bug: developers are tired when making an aspect of the game and accidentally set the exp value of a minion to 90 billion so players go from lvl 1-50 instantly.
2) Exploit: Problem based on game mechanics that when players clicked a skill 100 times on and off, the skill would activate permanently and they could have it forever
Exploits and bugs are normally differentiated because bugs are minor problems usually referred to as errors in the game's base coding.
Exploits, is a term given to bugs, or errors in games that generally give players an UNFAIR advantage over others.
If you look to example 1 i've provided, lvling from 1-50 in a single enemy DOES NOT negatively affect ANYONE. congrats for the player achieving an easy lvl 50 char.
However, if you look at example 2 i gave, clicking demonic aura 100 times and having it permanently activated on your character would SEVERELY affect anyone who was pvping, as in they would be at a serious disadvantage in trying to defeat you.
Bugs are used by players to often save time or convenience themselves.
EXPLOITS are used to gain an advantage, often over other players.
The problem is, most people conflate the terms and interchange them, when in fact i have clearly demonstrated they have different meanings.
So people, please use the terms bug and exploit correctly.
An exploit is taking advantage of a bug, or some other unexpected consequence to make the game do something unusual.Usually for your own benefit.
Why are we arguing Semantics? It's not hard to just google a word if you don't understand it.
Crius said,
[ QUOTE ]
An exploit is whatever they deem it to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
This "one-liner" which Singstar seems to object to nails the entire topic.
Wikipedia says, [ QUOTE ]
"In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers."
[/ QUOTE ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(online_gaming)
Because we can't read the minds of the developers, they can make this whatever they like even in retrospect.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
Again hero2 and fanservice, I'm perfectly aware of that and I'm not disputing it in any way whatsoever, but I disagree with using wikipedia as a source of any knowledge (teacher you know, we're picky)...
I didn't ask for the technical term "game exploit", I was merely interested in how different people view this term, because - we, the people actually make up the language. Yes, the devs can have their definition and we can't do anything about it, it's their game, but I'm STILL interested in hearing different views, WITHOUT anyone picking on anyone. Yes, fanservice, I DON'T want people to start arguing with each other, just explress their opinion and describe where the line's drawn according to them.
If you think that's somehow wrong, setup another thread and flame as much as you want about it, or start a silly PM ping-pong with me. I'm game!
My original question still stands, and I think we've seen some really good examples. Thanks for that.
I agree with Schlutz.
MA farms aren't really an exploit because Posi even said he was aware that this would probably happen. Sure, it does wreck the AH, it does make the Dev's work on content redundant, but it isn't really an exploit. Personaly, I don't like farming. It's good for inf and for getting past boring/hard levels but going from 1-50 (IMO) isn't good. Remember, there was farming before the MA, the Dev's never really did anything about it.
Sorry if I got completely derailed there, havn't had much sleep last night and I tend to ramble when that happens
@hero 2 i don't care what wikipedia says.
Wikipedia is wrong, and i am right.
BUGS are what are unintended by developers, and usually are of no detriment to the community, quality of gameplay, or other players.
Exploits are hacks/vulnerabilities in game code that are OFTEN used by players to gain an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE over OTHER PLAYERS that DEGRADES players GAME EXPERIENCE, the COMMUNITY, the ECONOMY, or any other factor affecting a customer's enjoyment of the game.
The simple facts are these and nothing more:
1) NCsoft developed, with full knowledge in mind, tools which would allow players to gain experience, infamy and other virtual content which would affect their gameplay.
2) NCsoft have full knowledge that farming has gone on, and previous incentives/attempts to stop it have failed.
3) NCsoft acknowledge the reasonable and justifiable assumption if something CAN be farmed, it WILL be farmed, by at least an amount of players that is high enough so it would be worthy of their attention to address as a game problem.
4) NCSoft, as a technique to become successful in a game with little risk, and little effort, despite how enjoyable it may be for the customer, despite how it goes against their aim of the game, do not agree that the concept of farming should be in their game.
5) NCsoft not only developed, but TESTED this system, with full knowledge of the consequences of it's release, the full knowledge of the HIGH probability players would engage in farming, and yet they have still released the Mission Architect to the public.
6) NCsoft developed, tested and released a system they knew some players would use to farm (see above for definition) and baring in mind their philosophy which detests farming, have resultantly developed a punishment system to deal with them.
7) NCsoft have developed a punishment system which could potentially, in some cases be to the detriment of average and innocent users who do not engage in farming, and could limit the majority of player's enjoyment of the game for the sake of stopping farming, with the full knowledge it is NOT likely to be successful.
Hmmm good question. An exploit is, effectively, using some facet of whatever system you're exploiting, to provide any form of advantage over that system. Be it a Tax loophole, MTIC fraud, a bot, or a hideously underpowered xp giver....in all these cases the system is being used against itself to further the user's advantage.
Yay: succinct 
I don't wanna save my soul now,
I just wanna lose control,
And even if it takes a lifetime, to learn:
I'll learn!
Exploits are defined by using some mechanic of a system in a way it's not intended to give yourself an advantage.
This system (mission architect) is being used for users to level their characters to level 50 in the shortest amount of time possible.
This does not give any user ANY kind of advantage over other players, or create conditions that detriment other play's experience of the game.
If I wrote a wall of text and bolded all of it I would of highlighted nothing.
Basically people have exploited an unintended loophole. I think the removal of badges and therefore chances of an accolade could be considered away to balance things to make things fair. PLed characters can say:
Get no Vet badges and temp powers with them.
Get no accolades and the extra buffs/temp powers that go with them.
So despite the advantage of saving so much money and time of leveling to 50 incomparison to others there is a loss involved.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Definition of exploit (there are three, the first one made me giggle and both one and two will no doubt be leapt upon by people who are trying to justify powerlevelling as okay and perfectly acceptable).
1. noun: a deed or act, esp. a notable or heroic one. (From Middle English, in the sense of 'outcome, success', via Old French (and some Latin for good measure).
2. verb trans: to use or develop (resources, materials etc) fully, esp. for profit or advantage.
3. To take unfair advantage of (somebody) for financial or other gain: exploiting the workers by paying low wages.
So am I allowed to post in this thread even though i totally oppose the majority of what the ones 'for' exploiting the system are saying? Only I noticed that people with an opinion that differs from the OPs seems to be unwelcome.
Oh and the source was The New Penguin English Dictionary, first published in 2000. It's a real book with pages and everything.
Whether you like it or not princess, same for you shannon, the simple fact is NCsoft developed a system knowing there would be consequences of people engaging in powerlevelling.
If you don't like powerlevelling, just shut up and don't do it. Powerlevelling is NOT an exploit, due to the fact it GIVES NO ADVANTAGE (as relevant to artic's 2nd and 3rd definitions) over other players.
Powerlevelling gives no advantage over other players for the people who partake in it, it does not negatively affect their gameplay, it does not degrade the quality of gaming experience or the ingame economy.
I think the problem with the question is that until the Devs actually define what an "exploit" is, it's futile to discuss.
Thelonious Monk
[ QUOTE ]
This system (mission architect) is being used for users to level their characters to level 50 in the shortest amount of time possible.
This does not give any user ANY kind of advantage over other players, or create conditions that detriment other play's experience of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
are you serious? lol so having a level 50 3 days into playing a game isnt game breaking? it gives people an advantage over others because it shouldn't be like this.
Or are you neglecting to mention the fact that the reason people could get to 50 in 3 days was due to a bug with xp rewards with a particular NPC?
Your "facts"? arn't facts at all. They are pure assumption, simply because you do not know what PS knew before. Or that they knew how the public (not just those who decided to pop onto test to get a bash at the new issue) would react and ultimately abuse the system.
If you do any sort of scientific testing or have done in your life you'll know the variables that effect any experiment of recreation must be exactly the same to get accurate results and this is the same for testing an issue. without putting it live you'll never get the same results. and often it just takes time for something like a bug with rewards to be worked out... In that respect releasing it early was a good decision. (That said they had the reaction timing of a tortoise with arthritis).
It might not have been found there and then in the testing stage but it was noted later in live and has been fixed. Farm all you want now.. tell me if you find another good mob to farm until then its hilarious watching those noob farmers die from inability to rely on the good old Rikti.
This is my last post on farming and anything related to that side of MA because I'm tired of it (:
The now epic thread has been cluttered quite a lot with the discussion about this topic: What actually constitutes an Exploit?
I'm starting this thread, not to continue with repeated bashing between the "two sides", but actually hoping to really discuss the subject, since the MA rikti com officer grinds made it rather evident we do have very different opinions about it.
As for the rikti com officers, my personal opinion was that it was known to the devs and they didn't consider it important enough to warrant immediate action. Was it an exploit? For me, an exploit is something that a few people use to gain an edge over others, to screw with the statistics if you so want. In this case - again - so many used it, that it BECAME the statistic. It was good they got rid of it, most of us agree on that.
but what about other stuff that comes close to it. Let me give some examples:
- Fire radiation controller 8 man teams are rediculously powerful. I've had some serious fun with them and levelling is really, really fast. Nerfing the build would make it useless for solo play, so is it an exploit to play with 7 others? Where's the line where it's not an exploit then?
- any kin team becomes more powerful than a team without kins, right? So when does it become an exploit? I run an all fire rad/kin team at the moment, usually 3-5 team mates. We do some excellent evil work I tell you. Is that bad?
- There are serveral builds that give you an upper hand against other specific critters. Is it an exploit to target those missions? What about repeating/targetting Freakshow missions?
- Compared to that I also play with London & Co whenever i get the chance. Why? Because we have fun even if we're pretty bored of the actual game. Knowing each other and our builds and pretty much anything there is redside we can run through pretty much anything so fast it's rediculous and we don't even pay attention to the game really because for us it's routine whatever we do.
Now: if you think any of the other above are exploits, in what way isn't this last example an exploit too? But you can't seriously suggest we shouldn't be allowed to form teams, SGs etc with certain builds?
Is anything that gives you a lot of XP/Inf/loot in a short amout of time an exploit? Where's the line between "right" and "wrong"? Intent? "Yeah, it's ok as long as you play for fun, and don't really care about the loot"?
As I said, I'm not here to start another mad, lame, loooong flame... The above was just a pointer to give you a head start for this more specific question:
Can you describe, WITHOUT ARGUING WITH OTHERS POSTING HERE, how you define an exploit, preferably giving an border line example of what's NOT an exploit, and what IS an exploit?
Now, there's a lot of other words that usually gets mixed up in this discussion like farming, "game-breaking" etc. Could we try NOT to fall into that trap, and stay on the rather narrow line of "exploit"?
And please, for the love of GOD, GG, could you NOT post one-liners on this thread, pretty please?