Posi on Abusing Mission Architect
By
2wabbits,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 13:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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What a pathetic decision by Posi in my opinion.
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I think it's fine - as long as they don't take the avatar suspension too far 
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I qote GG's one-liner for truth. What's next? Flying piggs? 
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What a pathetic decision by Posi in my opinion.
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I think it's fine - as long as they don't take the avatar suspension too far
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I qote GG's one-liner for truth. What's next? Flying piggs?
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I quote both of you saying get a life
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">Antwort auf:[/color]<hr />
farming isnt a bad thing. Everyone makes it seem as if someone farms they are not playing the game properly. well infact they are. its just a faster way of leveling and getting good influence/infamy seeing as a good build costs a lot. Also it takes for ever to get to level 50 too long i think, so farming is just a way speedingup this process. I know people complain about the spamming, and i agree it is annoying expecially when a level 1 is spamming it and basically looking for PL, but seriously deleting their PL'ed toons / banning account, do you not think that is a little far for some farming? i certainly do.
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Well, 3 hours to lvl 50 is not "speeding it up", it's an utterly ridiculous shortcut.
If you think that that is okay, then you probably are in favour of "free 50's on demand", too?
Time to reach level 50 has sunken drastically over the years, more than 100 hours and you are "slow" (as am I - I'm not in a hurry to get yet another char to 50).
I don't think that 100 hours is too long, but ymmw.
To be honest GG, as mentioned, I really doubt they will take it to the OMGZORS PWND ALL FARMORS! kind of level they're talking about.
It's going to be a slap and a "Don't do that again...OR ELSE!" in a boom Brian Blessed voice.
They will probably hit those that hit 50 in 6 hours playtime but those that hit 50 with 20-30 hours playtime will be left untouched...since you could kind of do that before the MA.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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Since you're obviously not gonna read my other post again:
Doing SOMETHING about that farm was not the wrong thing. They just did what needed to be done too late and now they're over reacting, doing more harm to the game, than good. It's ok to do something like this if you're head of WoW, or Steam. Doing it in this game... Insane!
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Er, part of the reason WoW has the numbers it has is that Blizzard would not release a gamebreaking patch, have a solution sitting on test for several days, release it, make a grandstanding statement, then retroactively start banning people.
Which by the way might not even happen, I'm annoyed but hopeful.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
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Scheses, you just don't WANT to even TRY to consider what the rest of us are saying:
WE AGREE: FARMING BAD!
WE AGREE: GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
BUT! And it's a big friggin' whoppin' whoooopin' BUT:
They COULD have done something, but chose not to for days. They COULD have done a lot of things, but chose not to do any of them and NOW they're gonna PUNISH people for THEIR mistake (e.g. not doing anything once the problem surfaced) in a time when they're about to face some SERIOUS competition.
We can all agree on the idea of getting those "6-account 30 new 50s in a few days" a good slap on the wrist but if they do that, someone has to draw a very shaky line somewhere.
THEY dropped the ball. THEY chose not to pick it up, and I bet they'll go on a whining spree when the other team scores.
YES, players used something that was *very obviously there*. It wasn't hidden and it got so widely abused even us non-grinders just HAD to test it to seee if it was as bad as people said, and yes it was and they still left it in there for days. It's like going to a prison full of murderers and rapists, giving them a bunch of high powered weapons and a free pass to the nearest girls-only party. Yes, that was a blatant disgusting, outrageous comparison, but god(censored) it applies. So give me a friggin forum ban for it and see me moan about that! (It's what I do(tm))
I'm mosty annoyed about that: They did nothing. Going mental now, as they're doing is too much too late.
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Not entirely true.
1) They put that paragraph GG pointed out.
2) They put farm-related terms into banlist in the very first patch.
3) They tried to fix most egregious exploits, like aforementioned multi-bubbling.
That's hardly "nothing".
Now, the only mistake they made is that threat of retroactive bannhammer, which made many people (including me) nervous. But, TBH, almost everything else they could do would cause adverse rreaction of some sort. (First Law of MMO, - devs never do things right, never ever.) Either some people would complain that measures were too harsh and indiscriminate or they would complain they weren't enough.
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If you look back, you'll see they could've done a LOT of things and chose not to. They left the RCOs in forever, probably causing that horrible rubberbanding/DC'ing [censored]. I hated that, and every day I hoped to get a patch that would rectify the situation!
I don't blame the players for using what was there, but I do blame the devs for not fixing it sooner and now taking it out on the players. They took down CoP (and it never came back btw) and I'd rather see them get rid of MA until they've re-thought it properly. Blaming the player base for doing what players do is childish, as childish as the farming whiners whining about them doing something about it.
They just seen intent on killing another of their MMOs. They're getting BLOODY good at that.
It was not an exploit I hear people say.
Hello?
Did the Devs create a tool intended to be used as a quick farming device? NO THEY DID NOT.
They gave us a tool which as an unforeseen side effect proved to be the ultimate farming tool. A tool so efficient that any other farming methods pale by comparison. Even farmers started to complain about this!
This was common knowledge. And if you did not realize that, then you should stop playing this game because you are to young to do so unsupervised.
So what is it called when people misuse a tool like that to gain an advantage they should not have?
An exploit.
You do the crime, you do the time.
I think it a very good thing that they step on this once and for all. I just hope they do this with full speed and are not afraid to do more then a little slap on the wrist.
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
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Ok show me in the rules where it says that players cant make a farm mission. And those words to the letter as abuse can be used for anything not just MA
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That's covered in the "unintended statistical advantages" bit.
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Rubbish, wouldnt stand up in court a good lawyer would walk all over that.
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Oh please - lawyers? Over a trivial matter of someone exploiting something, knowing full well that they should not be doing it and then trying to pass blame to someone else?
A lot of the 'bad feeling' seems to be 'I've been caught. Oh no.'
Powerlevelling 1-50 in a matter of hours/a day is game-breaking. Gaining badges at ridiculous badges-per-hour that lead to an accolade which unlocks... an emote? Not so much. (However, if your character is also going from 1-50 in a mtter of hours/a day whilst collecting said badges, then don't whinge that it's unfair. You made the choice to do it.)
Having to trawl through pages of 'Haha, I r f4rmz' is depressing. Yes there are still untested arcs which need 'work' (and aren't about farming and powerlevelling)but at least some of them actually bothered to have a go.
I will return to a point I made in another thread: If the practice of powerlevelling and farming is perfectly legitimate then why were there so many maps? Why not just the one map?
I think people are not stupid (in general - controversial I know) - People knew what they were doing, that it was wrong and are now creating all sorts of histrionics about lawyers and leaving. Laughable at best.
Actually try this one: If someone left you in a room with a machine which had a button marked 'electric shocks - press me to win money' - with the electrodes hooked up to, oh I don't know, a basket full of newborn kittens, would you?
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What a pathetic decision by Posi in my opinion.
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I think it's fine - as long as they don't take the avatar suspension too far
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I qote GG's one-liner for truth. What's next? Flying piggs?
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I quote both of you saying get a life
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I don't think either of us said that?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It was not an exploit I hear people say.
Hello?
Did the Devs create a tool intended to be used as a quick farming device? NO THEY DID NOT.
They gave us a tool which as an unforeseen side effect proved to be the ultimate farming tool. A tool so efficient that any other farming methods pale by comparison. Even farmers started to complain about this!
This was common knowledge. And if you did not realize that, then you should stop playing this game because you are to young to do so unsupervised.
So what is it called when people misuse a tool like that to gain an advantage they should not have?
An exploit.
You do the crime, you do the time.
I think it a very good thing that they step on this once and for all. I just hope they do this with full speed and are not afraid to do more then a little slap on the wrist.
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It wasn't hard to find!
It was WIDELY used for DAYS!
It was KNOWN to the devs that people where WIDELY using it!
Devs did nothing for DAYS!
and no, it wasn't an obvious exploit for a lot of players, since obviously a lot of them where very new to the game.
So, how do you KNOW when something is against the Eula or an exploit? Where do you draw the line? and how does it benefit the game?
I'm REALLY glad the "exploit" is gone. REALLY, REALLY happy. I'm NOT happy about Mr Republican neo-Bush alias Posi is going about it. It's bad for the game. That's my one and only point.
hey, I don't think its too bad. I only fear that it might make Villain side a bit too quiet for me to get a decent team again.
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
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for me this "so called farming" made me feel like it was a game again and not a chore as i nor did the team had to run to the market or some other places and wait, for i never really like the idea of the market when it came out but i had fun in theser teams as people was joking making it fun for me. but now it seem we have to work in this game as it meant to be a job or something and not a fun thing to do >.> i come here for a socail life like many oother but i must be punished to make the game work there way <.<
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I really hope that was a joke post - seriously, I'm full of LOL 
@Sing Star - so how many toons did you get from 1-50 and are now worried about?
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Thing is... EVERYONE WAS SHOUTING about how the MA would be "exploited" and they didn't really test if for "exploits", using "exploits" with the "'s because I don't consider it to be a real exploit.
They could've gone CoP on us, taking down the MA until they'd fixed the com officers or... whatever... They didn't, they left it in... I'd even go as far as saying that's bate'ing, fishing, asking the players to use it.
THEY messed up, AGAIN! ROYALLY!!! Punishing players in general, or even threatening to do it is insane, especially after the long rant after the 5th ani speech. People are already really, really aggravated.
I said it before as a joke, but now I really believe it:
Posi must've been bribed by Cryptic to get us all to leave for their uninteresting game whether we like it or not. Yes, I actually do believe it now (As in believe, think, suppose, not "I have proof"). It just blows my mind how the Royal screw-ups keep getting worse every year.
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Oh so now the Devs baited you? Hah, that's rich!
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Actually try this one: If someone left you in a room with a machine which had a button marked 'electric shocks - press me to win money' - with the electrodes hooked up to, oh I don't know, a basket full of newborn kittens, would you?
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You want to watch Derren Browns Trick or Treat and look at studies like the Stanford Experiment.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Why give players the chance to make there own missions and let them play how they want only to turn around and become all high and mighty about when they dont like whats being made?
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Well, think of it as like being given a gun licence, or a driving licence - you can do whatever you like with your gun/car - but there are rules of use that you mustn't break.
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Ok show me in the rules where it says that players cant make a farm mission. And those words to the letter as abuse can be used for anything not just MA
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That's covered in the "unintended statistical advantages" bit.
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Rubbish, wouldnt stand up in court a good lawyer would walk all over that.
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Oh please - lawyers? Over a trivial matter of someone exploiting something, knowing full well that they should not be doing it and then trying to pass blame to someone else?
A lot of the 'bad feeling' seems to be 'I've been caught. Oh no.'
Powerlevelling 1-50 in a matter of hours/a day is game-breaking. Gaining badges at ridiculous badges-per-hour that lead to an accolade which unlocks... an emote? Not so much. (However, if your character is also going from 1-50 in a mtter of hours/a day whilst collecting said badges, then don't whinge that it's unfair. You made the choice to do it.)
Having to trawl through pages of 'Haha, I r f4rmz' is depressing. Yes there are still untested arcs which need 'work' (and aren't about farming and powerlevelling)but at least some of them actually bothered to have a go.
I will return to a point I made in another thread: If the practice of powerlevelling and farming is perfectly legitimate then why were there so many maps? Why not just the one map?
I think people are not stupid (in general - controversial I know) - People knew what they were doing, that it was wrong and are now creating all sorts of histrionics about lawyers and leaving. Laughable at best.
Actually try this one: If someone left you in a room with a machine which had a button marked 'electric shocks - press me to win money' - with the electrodes hooked up to, oh I don't know, a basket full of newborn kittens, would you?
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What do you mean shouldnt be doing it, so your saying that people should all play the game how you want and thats because you pay all there subs i take?
What alot seem to be overlooking is the devs gave the players MA and dont tell me they didnt know farm maps were not going to happen, they could have done something about it but no.
I dont care if people farm or dont i have yet to see one argument that tells me that farming/PL destroys the game, i have been playing for 4.5 years and i have seen loads of farm requests in my time yet you know what i ignore them you can do that you know and no get on your high horse and lick dev butt.
Get over yourself
5 last sales is a flawed measuring stick.
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for me this "so called farming" made me feel like it was a game again and not a chore as i nor did the team had to run to the market or some other places and wait, for i never really like the idea of the market when it came out but i had fun in theser teams as people was joking making it fun for me. but now it seem we have to work in this game as it meant to be a job or something and not a fun thing to do >.> i come here for a socail life like many oother but i must be punished to make the game work there way <.<
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I really hope that was a joke post - seriously, I'm full of LOL
@Sing Star - so how many toons did you get from 1-50 and are now worried about?
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You little [censored]: I didn't farm. I tried ONE mission ONCE, and guess what: It was on my main 50, Sing Star!
That's my point: I don't care about that at all, but Posi's killing the game. Imagine this: Me and FFM actually AGREEs on something. That's a bloody first, not counting us both moaning about this useless forum system!
Hmmm, actually, as long as all the badge hunters who created maps purely for the new badges, optimising foes and allies get slapped with the same ban then I will accept a ban on my Tank which gained 5 bars playing "will it herd" with a smile
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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Actually try this one: If someone left you in a room with a machine which had a button marked 'electric shocks - press me to win money' - with the electrodes hooked up to, oh I don't know, a basket full of newborn kittens, would you?
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You want to watch Derren Browns Trick or Treat and look at studies like the Stanford Experiment.
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I loved the post war testing, it shows what being human is all about
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
What about those people that heard about this and said:
"No it can't seriously be true?"
They go'n'try it, get 8 levels, leave disguested and end up getting their character locked because they did try it!
The part that makes me chuckle though is "we knew it was going to be exploited..."
So you knew...yet you thought people would stick to a gentlemans agreement and NOT use it in that fashion...really...
...people will ALWAYS take the easiest route if it means getting a leg up and a good reward and yet by some kind of mystical virtue you thought people would stick to just making stories...at what point did you not think that farming/PLing was not going to become prelevant...at what point do you see that it would be exploited and decide to do only things like removing a couple of mobs from it and that would stem the tide?
If you knew it was going to be exploited from the start...well...perhaps you should have waited a little while longer before releasing it to iron out the exploits you KNEW were going to happen...
Sorry Posi but that kind of descison has come back to bite you in the behind, as I said in other topic, you blew the lid off Pandora's box and now either you simply can't close it...or you're going to need a welding tool to get it shut...
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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"Adjusted Rikti ship paths to not go through AE buildings"
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This, for me, says it all about how this game is run:
Action: Put AE Buildings in Zones.
Fix three days short of a month later: Stop ships flying through them.
You really put a lot of thought into this Architect thing beforehand, didn't you boys and girls?
Where's the rolleyes emote when I need it?
Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)
Play nice now, people 
It's just a game, so try not to go over the top with your reactions
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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So even if you removed every single badge from association with the Mission Architect, you're going to get horrible distortions of the voting pattern, because people are still going to have mixed motivations for voting as they will, and many of them are going to be downright dodgy reasons.
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Sure, but they'll be personal reasons and not quite as led by arc IDs being published on a global channel that lots of people use. People have different tastes and you have to let them vote according to their tastes - that's how you find out what's popular - not by people being told what to rate as part of some cartel.
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Come on, how many players really would want 50,000 test kills, when you get no experience or tickets in those missions at all, but just badges?
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Not me but then I'm not a badger - I dislike having to badge-hunt for Accolade powers I want or to unlock base items I want when imho there are much more fun ways to unlock content (TFs/SFs for example, or doing a quest line). Sure, I've been sucked into obsessively hunting shineys in other MMOs over the years (collections in EQ2 for example, farming full sets of gear for alts in EQ1 just for looks, etc), but it's not where my main gameplay interests lie.
But I do agree there are too many things in this game now that promote obsessive farming behaviour, whether its unrealistic badge targets, base unlockables, costume unlockables (Carnie mallet...), or even just hunting purples or the inf to buy purples. In many ways the Devs at NCNC/Paragon have made a rod for their own backs in changing the nature of this game from the fun casual MMO Cryptic made into a more loot-driven and achievement-driven MMO.
Personally I just want the story of the game to move forward in meaningful ways with new Dev-created story content, more powersets & powerset proliferation (to give me more characters I want to level in future), more costume pieces to increase customisation options, and less new features if they're going to destroy server stability or the core teaming dynamics.
I feel this game is evolving away from its strongest features and the reasons I originally liked it. I'm glad to see the Devs cracking down on a playstyle I see as destructive and boring and hope it will lead to a realisation of their own part in this fiasco, so hopefully they will move back to the core gameplay values that this MMO always stood for - i.e. the main reason a lot of us came here instead of going to WoW, EQ2, WAR, AoC, L2, or whatever.
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What a pathetic decision by Posi in my opinion.
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I think it's fine - as long as they don't take the avatar suspension too far
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork