Posi on Abusing Mission Architect
By
2wabbits,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 13:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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How can the game prove intent?
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Scheses, you just don't WANT to even TRY to consider what the rest of us are saying:
WE AGREE: FARMING BAD!
WE AGREE: GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
BUT! And it's a big friggin' whoppin' whoooopin' BUT:
They COULD have done something, but chose not to for days. They COULD have done a lot of things, but chose not to do any of them and NOW they're gonna PUNISH people for THEIR mistake (e.g. not doing anything once the problem surfaced) in a time when they're about to face some SERIOUS competition.
We can all agree on the idea of getting those "6-account 30 new 50s in a few days" a good slap on the wrist but if they do that, someone has to draw a very shaky line somewhere.
THEY dropped the ball. THEY chose not to pick it up, and I bet they'll go on a whining spree when the other team scores.
YES, players used something that was *very obviously there*. It wasn't hidden and it got so widely abused even us non-grinders just HAD to test it to seee if it was as bad as people said, and yes it was and they still left it in there for days. It's like going to a prison full of murderers and rapists, giving them a bunch of high powered weapons and a free pass to the nearest girls-only party. Yes, that was a blatant disgusting, outrageous comparison, but god(censored) it applies. So give me a friggin forum ban for it and see me moan about that! (It's what I do(tm))
I'm mosty annoyed about that: They did nothing. Going mental now, as they're doing is too much too late.
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Not entirely true.
1) They put that paragraph GG pointed out.
2) They put farm-related terms into banlist in the very first patch.
3) They tried to fix most egregious exploits, like aforementioned multi-bubbling.
That's hardly "nothing".
Now, the only mistake they made is that threat of retroactive bannhammer, which made many people (including me) nervous. But, TBH, almost everything else they could do would cause adverse rreaction of some sort. (First Law of MMO, - devs never do things right, never ever.) Either some people would complain that measures were too harsh and indiscriminate or they would complain they weren't enough.
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If you look back, you'll see they could've done a LOT of things and chose not to. They left the RCOs in forever, probably causing that horrible rubberbanding/DC'ing [censored]. I hated that, and every day I hoped to get a patch that would rectify the situation!
I don't blame the players for using what was there, but I do blame the devs for not fixing it sooner and now taking it out on the players. They took down CoP (and it never came back btw) and I'd rather see them get rid of MA until they've re-thought it properly. Blaming the player base for doing what players do is childish, as childish as the farming whiners whining about them doing something about it.
They just seen intent on killing another of their MMOs. They're getting BLOODY good at that.
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Well, are you one of dev team members? If not, how do you know what they could and couldn't do? (Remember what sort of wail temporary removal of Prisoners caused? If they had to do something like that with Rikti, one of the game's signature factions, they as well might shut down the entire MA.
And fixing RCOs without removing them first might have taken that long. Of course,you might not believe devs' explaination that taking mobs out of MA makes fixing and reintroducing fixed version(*) much, much easier... But it looks plausible enough for me. ) Plus, anyone paying attention to test server or forum knew of RCO nerf well in advance, despite devs' explicit policy to not to announce exploit fixes until after it's fixed on live. Yes, rationale for that policy doesn't apply here, everyone knew those exploits anyway, but well, they stuck to it.
(*) notice the language in patchnotes, it implies that RCOs that spawn now are entirely different mob as far as the game engine is concerned.
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Uh, did I miss something. NOONEs complaining they got rid of the com officers. They left the game running for days knowing very well people would abuse it madly (NO I DIDN'T, GET IT???). They didn't even try to police the arcs or put out the obvious "goddammit, keep playing those arcs repeatedly and we'll smack you in the head".
I'm not saying they threw a bate at us, hoping for us to bite - intentionally - but they do have a weird way of taking care of the game.
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I probably was unclear. My theory is that they didn't remove them, b/c they could not do it, like they did with the Prisoners, and that's why fixing them took so long. They didn't widely announce the fix beforehand because they never do it for bugs like that, to not to advertise them even more than they already are.
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Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.
If the devs thought of comm officers to be an exploit they could have removed them 1 week after I14 went live and it became obvious... they didnt.
But they did remove other mobs like prisoners in one day without much trouble.
They knew it, they could have removed the comm officers from MA in one day... they didnt.. so they have no right to blame players now.
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God.mmit! You're my hero, my idol! I think I love you, but not in - that - way! 
ok ive played ma quite a bit, and i have loved all of it, and i can tell you i have been here since 2005 and before that in the US, so i have the passport badge, and if i get one toon banned i will not look back i will be gone no question 
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Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
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As I ninja-edited into one of my posts, whether we consider this an exploit actually means little in the big scheme of things. Devs decided to treat it as if it were, love it or hate it. (I don't think they were an exploit, unlike some other things PLers did.)
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ok ive played ma quite a bit, and i have loved all of it, and i can tell you i have been here since 2005 and before that in the US, so i have the passport badge, and if i get one toon banned i will not look back i will be gone no question
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Playing MA is fine - it's what you play in it that can cause problems 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.
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And in beta I /bugged many typos that are still in the MA tutorial. Does it mean that they are not typos because they are still there?
Simply not addressing a problem that has been reported does not mean that it's been condoned as acceptable behaviour.
EDIT: Although it was poor IMO that exploits had been reported many days before I14 went live but it still went live 1-2 weeks too early...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
Re: Posi on Abusing Mission Architect [Re: fireballman]
#1357720 - Tue May 05 2009 09:21 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
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ok ive played ma quite a bit, and i have loved all of it, and i can tell you i have been here since 2005 and before that in the US, so i have the passport badge, and if i get one toon banned i will not look back i will be gone no question
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Playing MA is fine - it's what you play in it that can cause problems
so are you calling me a some kind of cheater ?
cus i play what the team picks
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how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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No pie?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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No pie?
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The cake is a pie.
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
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how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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No pie?
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so again im asking are you saying i have been some sort of cheater ?
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how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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No pie?
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so again im asking are you saying i have been some sort of cheater ?
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Well, you'd have to tell us what you'd done before we could say if you'd been naughty or not
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Re: Posi on Abusing Mission Architect [Re: fireballman]
#1357720 - Tue May 05 2009 09:21 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:
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ok ive played ma quite a bit, and i have loved all of it, and i can tell you i have been here since 2005 and before that in the US, so i have the passport badge, and if i get one toon banned i will not look back i will be gone no question
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Playing MA is fine - it's what you play in it that can cause problems
so are you calling me a some kind of cheater ?
cus i play what the team picks
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No one makes you to stay on team that does something you don't like. Sure, other team members might get annoyed at you, but unless you're on a TF or a SG event, or something, few would go out of their way to remember that you did it. Esp. if the team is farming.
If you were in farmy SG, - well, that was your choice too.
That said, if you farmed because you didn't know any better, I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry. The game is much, much, more than AE grind, especially after you discover TF/badging channels.
Farming was always there nd always will be.
Even when i played US CoH when it was released.... we farmed dev earth swarms in Creys Folly.....
There are several missions hero and villain side that were always frmed and always will be.
The point is only certain specialized builds were able to farm those maps, therefore not as many people farmed them.
MA allowed almost every build and AT to farm xp/inf at the same speed those specialized builds farmed those specific maps.
I dont like how popular farming has become these days, BUT it showed players without those specific builds, how fast you can get inf/xp and purple drops if you just troll a specific combo and farm dev made missions.
Nerfing MA farms is ok, but if that happens players will just make certain builds which can farm non MA maps, btw if you looked around the last weeks, those "specific" builds were popping out everywhere.
If you dont want ppl to farm you really have to rework many sets, since they are THE farmsets and combos, which are designed for killing as many mobs as possible as fast as possible.
i belong to archies and we are not a farmy sg tyvm
but again i take offence to being accused of something that breaks the rules
GG you think that your opinion is the only one that counts whenever you post and im sorry but it is not 
i am sorry if you were just trying to be funny but i've been around a long time and do not appreciate being called a cheat even if it is tongue in cheek.
to 3dent look at my time on game ive been here a very very long time, and before that on the us server, so i kinda know what the game has to offer, i have, and so do the rest of my SG lots and lots of 50's. so please don't lecture.
ok, all of you that didn't like the farms:
How many of you used that red little button, complaining about it?
I've got one complaint of one of my missions for swearing, rather funny since there was no abusive language at all, but...
All you high and mighty "police officers" out there could've helped and I bet few of you did it, but now you've got time to spare whining about it on the forums that no devs read, instead of using the GLOBAL MA system to make an impact. I've reported AND commented several arcs for other things, and some where removed, others where actually "fixed".
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To add to valdemars list.
Non marcone family bosses.
3 every steel mayhem since they apparently don't spawn in zones anymore.
Anyway my main beef is retroactive punishment.
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Well the Dev who thought of removing those bosses should have his own valentines day!
Or didn't you talk about that retroactive punishment?
For the record.
Proactive punishment is the less common variant of punishing somebody. Normally you punish somebody for things already done. Therefore is not every punishment a retroactive one?
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GG you think that your opinion is the only one that counts whenever you post and im sorry but it is not
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I don't...
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i am sorry if you were just trying to be funny but i've been around a long time and do not appreciate being called a cheat even if it is tongue in cheek.
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...and I didn't
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm in with the "I love it" camp I'm afraid.
And for all you lovely people who say "they can't do this". Actually, it's their game, and they can do what they hell they like.
I'm glad to see Posi finally growing a set and coming down on what has been the blight of this game for far too long. Sure there'll be a fair few farmers who quit because of it, and good riddance. I'd imagine that there'll also be people who are prepared to play the game how it was intended to be played, absolutely delighted and coming right on back. Me being one of them.
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This
I've got to say I'm very saddened (but not terribly surpised) by the vituperative comments made by the pro-farming lobby, but I'd reiterate what many have said; that the EULA is there for a reason and the Devs may take whatever measures they seem appropriate to address a given issue.
For those who are concerned my best guess is this: The Devs will not wield their banhammer without caution - the casual player won't likely notice a thing, and if you got a 50 in an evening, well done. But if you find another exploit and do it again, beware.
The Devs know that heavy handed behaviour will hurt the bank balance - but farming will hurt it much more so. It's no secret that I'm not a fan of Positron, but in this I think he's very right - and they are taking pro-active action. More importantly, we have been warned. We now know the collective score.
Nuff said.
Thelonious Monk
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how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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No pie?
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so again im asking are you saying i have been some sort of cheater ?
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Well, you'd have to tell us what you'd done before we could say if you'd been naughty or not
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so what is that then ?
a joke or an accusation ?
it's one or the other ?
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how bout, servers :
* union
* defiant
* farm
and if possible..
* cake
?
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No pie?
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so again im asking are you saying i have been some sort of cheater ?
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Well, you'd have to tell us what you'd done before we could say if you'd been naughty or not
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so what is that then ?
a joke or an accusation ?
it's one or the other ?
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I'm trying to see where the suggestion of a cake and/or pie server turns into an accusation of cheating?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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ok ive played ma quite a bit, and i have loved all of it, and i can tell you i have been here since 2005 and before that in the US, so i have the passport badge, and if i get one toon banned i will not look back i will be gone no question
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Playing MA is fine - it's what you play in it that can cause problems
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so now you are saying that you post so much you do not know what you are posting ?
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Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.
If the devs thought of comm officers to be an exploit they could have removed them 1 week after I14 went live and it became obvious... they didnt.
But they did remove other mobs like prisoners in one day without much trouble.
They knew it, they could have removed the comm officers from MA in one day... they didnt.. so they have no right to blame players now.
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God.mmit! You're my hero, my idol! I think I love you, but not in - that - way!
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Soooo if i understand correctly.
You see a wallet on the table next to you. You tell the person whoms wallet it is, that a thief could grab it. He replies politely but the wallet stay on the table. It ends when you steal the wallet from the table and run away.
After all you did WARN him that there are thieves and that they could steal his wallet right?
So that means that you are NOT a thief right?
Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.
If the devs thought of comm officers to be an exploit they could have removed them 1 week after I14 went live and it became obvious... they didnt.
But they did remove other mobs like prisoners in one day without much trouble.
They knew it, they could have removed the comm officers from MA in one day... they didnt.. so they have no right to blame players now.
If they start to punish players now subsequently for things they didnt even warn the players abput, you have to be afraid to play at all, since they can decide everything to be an exploit or not working as intended and delete your chars.