Posi on Abusing Mission Architect

fireballman · 05-05-2009 07:34 PM

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i never once said i had power lvld but you gave sarcastic comments with sticky out tongues

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And where did I say you were an evil exploiter?

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do you understand the word implied

to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement

Playing MA is fine - it's what you play in it that can cause problems

Well, you'd have to tell us what you'd done before we could say if you'd been naughty or not

Well I can't really say if you've been naughty or not, unless you tell us what you've done in the MA.
If you've played normal MA missions, then you should be fine.
But if you've gotten a 50 in a few hours, then you might be hit by the wrath of the devs

all your words

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that was the actual quote i made. why have you tried to alter it ?

last post im off to bed, but please in future if you are having a laugh i love that just say so

but if you are trying to accuse people then get your facts right

and a simple i was joking would have been more than enough to stop this stupid exchange of posts

nn all

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Well, as I didn't actually accuse you of anything, then it's kinda hard to know what I should have said

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so its ok to alter and doctor someones post but not to play an ma mission hmmm interesting set of values there gg

Golden Girl · 05-05-2009 07:35 PM

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MA abuse was mentioned in the I14 patch notes, and players were told it was not allowed.
The warning has been in place since I14 went live - and if people ignored it, then that doesn't mean they're not guilty of abusing the system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link to the warning in I14 patch notes ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the important part:

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NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or authors that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rest is on the I14 Patch Notes thread in the Announcements section.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

Golden Girl · 05-05-2009 07:36 PM

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i never once said i had power lvld but you gave sarcastic comments with sticky out tongues

[/ QUOTE ]

And where did I say you were an evil exploiter?

[/ QUOTE ]

do you understand the word implied

to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement

Playing MA is fine - it's what you play in it that can cause problems

Well, you'd have to tell us what you'd done before we could say if you'd been naughty or not

Well I can't really say if you've been naughty or not, unless you tell us what you've done in the MA.
If you've played normal MA missions, then you should be fine.
But if you've gotten a 50 in a few hours, then you might be hit by the wrath of the devs

all your words

[/ QUOTE ]
that was the actual quote i made. why have you tried to alter it ?

last post im off to bed, but please in future if you are having a laugh i love that just say so

but if you are trying to accuse people then get your facts right

and a simple i was joking would have been more than enough to stop this stupid exchange of posts

nn all

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as I didn't actually accuse you of anything, then it's kinda hard to know what I should have said

[/ QUOTE ]

so its ok to alter and doctor someones post but not to play an ma mission hmmm interesting set of values there gg

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I really have no idea what you're talking about now

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

Rooks · 05-05-2009 07:37 PM

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Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.

If the devs thought of comm officers to be an exploit they could have removed them 1 week after I14 went live and it became obvious... they didnt.
But they did remove other mobs like prisoners in one day without much trouble.

They knew it, they could have removed the comm officers from MA in one day... they didnt.. so they have no right to blame players now.

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God.mmit! You're my hero, my idol! I think I love you, but not in - that - way!

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Soooo if i understand correctly.

You see a wallet on the table next to you. You tell the person whoms wallet it is, that a thief could grab it. He replies politely but the wallet stay on the table. It ends when you steal the wallet from the table and run away.

After all you did WARN him that there are thieves and that they could steal his wallet right?

So that means that you are NOT a thief right?

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One simple response: Comparison invalid: Useless!

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Wrong

Exploiting is illegal (in this game)
Stealing is illegal

stealing after warning is illegal
exploiting after warning is illegal

Comparison is very valid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just read this post (and not very many others so I dunno if this has already been put to rest or whatever), but the analagy is in fact incorrect. A more apt analagy would be a man sees an apple tree sporting many apples in a public park with people taking some at random points during the day, when he finds a policeman he asks him if it's illegal to take apples from the tree, when the response is "no" he goes back to the tree and takes a few. It's not a perfect analagy and that's because thievery is a very different 'crime' to abusing an exploit, I did the best with what was given lol.

@Rooks

"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."

BurningFist_EU · 05-05-2009 07:37 PM

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Farming was never punished before and its been around since release, so they cant just say : " Oh well we decided its forbidden now and therefore we delete all chars that ever farmed, be it swarms in Creys Folly 4 years in the past, the hero freak map or certain villain maps.

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But there's farming, and then there's farming - and I think people hititng 50 in less than a day crosses the line of what the devs are prepared to allow.

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That's exactly it, and that's why this whole thread and its ongoing comedy of outrage has been such hilarious reading all night.

It's obviously an abuse of the MA to use it to level character to 50 in a matter of hours. How, in any reality, can that be seen as the way it was supposed to be used, or the game supposed to be played?

The issue here isn't farming, it's the systematic abuse of a system that was supposed to be a flagship feature of CoX. Instead, that abuse has made the whole game a laughing stock. And people defend that abuse? Not only defend it but refuse to take any kind of responsibility for taking part in it, even to the point of saying things along the lines of "the devs made me do it, it's not my fault!"

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Pretty sure you could level in hours before MA.

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Way to miss the point.

Demonic_ · 05-05-2009 07:41 PM

QR

Punishing people for doing something quickly and efficiently within the bounds of the game is appauling customer service, if my accounts are hampered in any way im unsubbing and leaving

Wondering_Fury · 05-05-2009 07:42 PM

( This reply is not towards 'Rooks', it's simply a thread reply )

I think the award for worst literal use of the english language stands here... Sorry, but it is sort of bad

I couldn't care less if I got one of my toons banned, since I only used one solitary to be PL, I can stand and admit that. That was my business, but to be honest whats the difference between that toon moderately fast levelled, 20 hours by MA, and one or two others using normal maps around 20 hours? I fail to understand the difference in "exploit" here. There relatively the same, in some respect, that they take advantage of a foes weakness.

Oh and a side note, stop flinging the term " draconian " unless you really understand it please. I'm not bashing.

EDIT: I'm with DemonicJudgement, I'm unsubbing if they go overboard with the banbat. I'm not scared, I'll just refuse to subscribe to a game again, since this is my first and likely last.

Fury

Morty_EU · 05-05-2009 07:42 PM

I wonder how players can approve what Positron announced... dont they see that the game is living again since i14 and the easy-xp AE farm ? Ppl can lvl up any character they want, buy SOs with tickets and test it in high-lvl battles and TFs... it's just awesome !

Besides once you are 50, you can do any challenge in the game pretty easily thank to the exemplar system, and AE farm is open to every players so there is no "balancing" problems... Those who dont want to farm because they find it boring, fine, they team with others like them, since they seem to be a lot in the - "I love it" camp - lol, but farming has never hurted them in any way, they receive more AE team requests ? They refuse, and what is the problem ?

I came back on CoH just because i could lvl up new characters fastly (i always wanted to have a high-level tanker lol but it's too damn boring to xp), and I grabbed many friends (new and old CoH players) in it just because of this. I already lvled chars to 50 before i14, and i dont feel bad about having spent so much time on the game and now i love lvling my chars fastly to see what they are really made of.

Anyway, they can ban my account and delete my chars, i just had a beta-key for Champions Online and nothing can hurt me right now, except maybe knowing that CoH is dying a second time so fast... too bad they nerfed their own Moment of Glory heh :P

CactusBrawler · 05-05-2009 07:42 PM

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Farming was never punished before and its been around since release, so they cant just say : " Oh well we decided its forbidden now and therefore we delete all chars that ever farmed, be it swarms in Creys Folly 4 years in the past, the hero freak map or certain villain maps.

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But there's farming, and then there's farming - and I think people hititng 50 in less than a day crosses the line of what the devs are prepared to allow.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly it, and that's why this whole thread and its ongoing comedy of outrage has been such hilarious reading all night.

It's obviously an abuse of the MA to use it to level character to 50 in a matter of hours. How, in any reality, can that be seen as the way it was supposed to be used, or the game supposed to be played?

The issue here isn't farming, it's the systematic abuse of a system that was supposed to be a flagship feature of CoX. Instead, that abuse has made the whole game a laughing stock. And people defend that abuse? Not only defend it but refuse to take any kind of responsibility for taking part in it, even to the point of saying things along the lines of "the devs made me do it, it's not my fault!"

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Pretty sure you could level in hours before MA.

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Way to miss the point.

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Not really, since another flag ship of the CoX game, is the sidekick system which has always allowed 1-50 in a day.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

Moghedien_EU · 05-05-2009 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

MA abuse was mentioned in the I14 patch notes, and players were told it was not allowed.
The warning has been in place since I14 went live - and if people ignored it, then that doesn't mean they're not guilty of abusing the system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link to the warning in I14 patch notes ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the important part:

[ QUOTE ]
NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or authors that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rest is on the I14 Patch Notes thread in the Announcements section.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely nothing in it about banning people for farming.
Read carefully........
Its about banning missions.....
Not even about using an exploit, only about making it public etc....

GrinningSpade · 05-05-2009 07:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

MA abuse was mentioned in the I14 patch notes, and players were told it was not allowed.
The warning has been in place since I14 went live - and if people ignored it, then that doesn't mean they're not guilty of abusing the system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link to the warning in I14 patch notes ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the important part:

[ QUOTE ]
NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or authors that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rest is on the I14 Patch Notes thread in the Announcements section.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the save here

I couldn't find a good quote in the EULA (thanks for letting me read that legalised piece of.... )

BurningFist_EU · 05-05-2009 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Farming was never punished before and its been around since release, so they cant just say : " Oh well we decided its forbidden now and therefore we delete all chars that ever farmed, be it swarms in Creys Folly 4 years in the past, the hero freak map or certain villain maps.

[/ QUOTE ]

But there's farming, and then there's farming - and I think people hititng 50 in less than a day crosses the line of what the devs are prepared to allow.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly it, and that's why this whole thread and its ongoing comedy of outrage has been such hilarious reading all night.

It's obviously an abuse of the MA to use it to level character to 50 in a matter of hours. How, in any reality, can that be seen as the way it was supposed to be used, or the game supposed to be played?

The issue here isn't farming, it's the systematic abuse of a system that was supposed to be a flagship feature of CoX. Instead, that abuse has made the whole game a laughing stock. And people defend that abuse? Not only defend it but refuse to take any kind of responsibility for taking part in it, even to the point of saying things along the lines of "the devs made me do it, it's not my fault!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure you could level in hours before MA.

[/ QUOTE ]
Way to miss the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, since another flag ship of the CoX game, is the sidekick system which has always allowed 1-50 in a day.

[/ QUOTE ]
So why do you think Positron is coming down hard on MA abuse if there's nothing wrong with it?

Moghedien_EU · 05-05-2009 07:50 PM

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So why do you think Positron is coming down hard on MA abuse if there's nothing wrong with it?

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Because every AT and powercombo can pl toons to 50 now in one day and not just 3 or 4 "specific" powercombos which have always been able to pl chars at insane speed before I14 ?

CoX_Starblaydia · 05-05-2009 07:50 PM

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So why do you think Positron is coming down hard on MA abuse if there's nothing wrong with it?

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Nothing better to do?
Armour strapped on too tight?
Didn't like being bald as a coot in the comics?
Needs to assert his power after a [censored] anniversary address?
He's a townie at heart and hates anything to do with the countryside?

Erm, struggling now.

Blueside Union: Starblayde (Blaster), Pax Imperia (Tanker), Pax Britannia (Defender)
Redside Union: Natasha Redshade (Stalker)

CactusBrawler · 05-05-2009 07:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Farming was never punished before and its been around since release, so they cant just say : " Oh well we decided its forbidden now and therefore we delete all chars that ever farmed, be it swarms in Creys Folly 4 years in the past, the hero freak map or certain villain maps.

[/ QUOTE ]

But there's farming, and then there's farming - and I think people hititng 50 in less than a day crosses the line of what the devs are prepared to allow.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly it, and that's why this whole thread and its ongoing comedy of outrage has been such hilarious reading all night.

It's obviously an abuse of the MA to use it to level character to 50 in a matter of hours. How, in any reality, can that be seen as the way it was supposed to be used, or the game supposed to be played?

The issue here isn't farming, it's the systematic abuse of a system that was supposed to be a flagship feature of CoX. Instead, that abuse has made the whole game a laughing stock. And people defend that abuse? Not only defend it but refuse to take any kind of responsibility for taking part in it, even to the point of saying things along the lines of "the devs made me do it, it's not my fault!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure you could level in hours before MA.

[/ QUOTE ]
Way to miss the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, since another flag ship of the CoX game, is the sidekick system which has always allowed 1-50 in a day.

[/ QUOTE ]
So why do you think Positron is coming down hard on MA abuse if there's nothing wrong with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he will.

Think it'll just be a threat, the games not in a healthy enough state for a mass ban.

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

GrinningSpade · 05-05-2009 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.

If the devs thought of comm officers to be an exploit they could have removed them 1 week after I14 went live and it became obvious... they didnt.
But they did remove other mobs like prisoners in one day without much trouble.

They knew it, they could have removed the comm officers from MA in one day... they didnt.. so they have no right to blame players now.

[/ QUOTE ]

God.mmit! You're my hero, my idol! I think I love you, but not in - that - way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Soooo if i understand correctly.

You see a wallet on the table next to you. You tell the person whoms wallet it is, that a thief could grab it. He replies politely but the wallet stay on the table. It ends when you steal the wallet from the table and run away.

After all you did WARN him that there are thieves and that they could steal his wallet right?

So that means that you are NOT a thief right?

[/ QUOTE ]

One simple response: Comparison invalid: Useless!

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong

Exploiting is illegal (in this game)
Stealing is illegal

stealing after warning is illegal
exploiting after warning is illegal

Comparison is very valid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just read this post (and not very many others so I dunno if this has already been put to rest or whatever), but the analagy is in fact incorrect. A more apt analagy would be a man sees an apple tree sporting many apples in a public park with people taking some at random points during the day, when he finds a policeman he asks him if it's illegal to take apples from the tree, when the response is "no" he goes back to the tree and takes a few. It's not a perfect analagy and that's because thievery is a very different 'crime' to abusing an exploit, I did the best with what was given lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the piramid thing, but i think you need to read the OP post to.

I think that you make a mistake here. When we use your analogy the story would be:

A man sees an apple in a public park. He notices it is full apples and that it is easy to take one of these apples. He knows that that is wrong so he warns a police officer. The police officer says thank you for the warning. Then when the park opens he sees that the apples are still hanging there and decides to steal one.

It might be that he saw others stealing it first. But that is not relevant.

Wondering_Fury · 05-05-2009 08:00 PM

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CactusBrawlers Pyramid

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The man has a point, you will really be suiciding yourself with the competition round the corner. Although be it appropiate sure, but just really bad timing for this game.

He didn't really miss the point about that to be honest, since some of the best powerlevellers in the game could get you to 50 in times like MA did. Therefore, wheres the line? It is, in loose terms, abuse of the system but isn't normal farming abuse too then by those regards?

EDIT: This really has completely destroyed the hype of MA tbh.

Fury

TsumijuZero · 05-05-2009 08:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
QR

Punishing people for doing something quickly and efficiently within the bounds of the game is appauling customer service, if my accounts are hampered in any way im unsubbing and leaving

[/ QUOTE ]

Punishing people for doing something unfairly by manipulating the mechanics of the game is appauling player behaviour, if your accounts are hampered in any way it's going to have to be off the back of some drastic PL and is entirely your own fault!

In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide

Warscythe · 05-05-2009 08:08 PM

Irregardless of some things that have gone on these forums in the past, I have always found us to be a little less hyperactive than our american cousins. However, I am shocked to see a lot of people who, in the past have seemed level headed, react in such a manner. Guys there has been no confirmation that any and all PL'd toons will be axed/burnt/spanked etc etc... all we know for now is that they have sat up and taken note.

Now no - one person is to blame, in effect we all are, I for one am not a farmer, ( never could wear the wellies ) but on occaision ive joined a team that did so, got bored and left. Does that make me worried? no...should 90% of the player base be worried? no, if all you have done since i14 is sit in MA and gone from one lvl 50 to the next?...maybe.

Still we have had no sign of what is to happen, as mechano stated its more likely to be a slap on the wrist for some, the post is stated in the manner it is to give us "kids" a heads up that this is to go on no longer.

When it comes down to it, we all play this game for our own ends, most of you guys who have posted here are intelligent chaps, you must have known this would happen one way or another. I just dont see what is so wrong in taking this warning on the chin and carrying on the game as we had before all this debacle. Yes there will be farming, but I personally see a small section in PI running DEV made mishes over again to be not as harmful as having a set of mishes that can get a new player to max lvl in a day while missing the content out there, all set up in the intro zone.

Aaaanyhoo my point is this is in effect now, its happened, and from the looks of the statement only those who reeeeeeally took the michael with MA will be looked at, the rest of you should be fine. Besides MA isnt the whole game, we did fine before it, why not use it as it was intended, for the venting of our creativity to tell a story, not our ingenuity to get around it.

Peace out folks

Art of War Co-Leader - Union *Global@Warscythe*

"The box said Windows Vista or better - so I installed Linux"

TRTerror · 05-05-2009 08:08 PM

Hai guyz i'm just going leave this pile of money here. Pliz don't take it bbl.

Golden Girl · 05-05-2009 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hai guyz i'm just going leave this pile of money here. Pliz don't take it bbl.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll stand guard for you

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

TsumijuZero · 05-05-2009 08:12 PM

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Aaaanyhoo my point is this is in effect now, its happened, and from the looks of the statement only those who reeeeeeally took the michael with MA will be looked at, the rest of you should be fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

QTF fella! A few people are spoiling it for the rest, and its those that really need a slapped wrist, Posi did say it was being considered that PL'd toons would be inaccessible, personally I think locking the Publishing slots is a stroke of genius for this, so long as its fair and considered and isn't influenced by gankvoting as many of the badges and HoF ratings seem to be!

In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide

2wabbits · 05-05-2009 08:24 PM

Thank you Devs,

Judgement_Dave · 05-05-2009 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

MA abuse was mentioned in the I14 patch notes, and players were told it was not allowed.
The warning has been in place since I14 went live - and if people ignored it, then that doesn't mean they're not guilty of abusing the system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link to the warning in I14 patch notes ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the important part:

[ QUOTE ]
NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or authors that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rest is on the I14 Patch Notes thread in the Announcements section.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely nothing in it about banning people for farming.
Read carefully........
Its about banning missions.....
Not even about using an exploit, only about making it public etc....

[/ QUOTE ]
Read more carefully.

The first sentence of the extract from the I14 patch notes is about banning missions containing 'exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages' - that could cover some farming missions (although I've asked before for definitions of terms which haven't been provided).

The second sentence mentions that players/authors advertising such exploitable missions may be banned from MA or have their game account closed. The second sentence even explicitly states advertising through the Mission Architect System.

So:
Farms providing great returns may be considered to contain 'exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages'.
If so then the authors may have their game account closed for publishing them (i.e. for advertising them through MA by making them available in the search browser).

I'd say that that pretty much mentions banning people for farming if farming is considered to use 'exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages'.

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

Moghedien_EU · 05-05-2009 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Read more carefully.

The first sentence of the extract from the I14 patch notes is about banning missions containing 'exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages' - that could cover some farming missions (although I've asked before for definitions of terms which haven't been provided).

The second sentence mentions that players/authors advertising such exploitable missions may be banned from MA or have their game account closed. The second sentence even explicitly states advertising through the Mission Architect System.

So:
Farms providing great returns may be considered to contain 'exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages'.
If so then the authors may have their game account closed for publishing them (i.e. for advertising them through MA by making them available in the search browser).

I'd say that that pretty much mentions banning people for farming if farming is considered to use 'exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Says ABSOLUTELY nothing about people who NEVEr made farm missions but just joined them.

It only cover people CREATINg farm missions and not even that, since farming wasnt an exploit before positrons post.

If "farming" accounts were banned prolly 70% of all EU accounts must be closed since almost everyone "farmed" either inf, recipes, or pl their toons with the sk system in the "normal" farm mission once in a while.