A case against new zones
By
Blackhat_EU,
Posted on: 2009-04-28 17:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Faultline and RWZ.
I agree with everything you said, and voiced that to Positron on the Test Server earlier on.
Revamps and improvements first with new content, please.
As I said in the other thread, this does seem to be a real clash of dev opinion vs player opinion.
The devs seem to think that revamping a zone is just a waste of time, after all they're old, they're not shiny, surely the players want shiny?!
Meanwhile the players are going "well we don't so much as want shiny as...well...polished, Dark Astoria is a great zone but it doesn't see much use, why don't you actually revamp that and make it into an awesomesauce zone like you did with Faultline and the RWZ? Surely more zones are just going to make things worse?"
It's like we can't quite see where they're comin from and they can't quite understand the reason for a revamp.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
I also voiced this to Positron, although didn't receive an answer. I fully agree with all your points.
Blackhat
Dr Blackhat - Empathy/Rad Defender
Blackhat von Radon - Fire/Rad Controller
Blackhat von Tinder - Fire/Kin Controller
Blackhat von Sizzle - Fire/Fire Blaster
/Signed here
Would love to have creepiness in Astoria, since discovering that Croatoa is actually very cool, and that they CAN do creepy well.
And would love to see CoH zones get made use of, rather than being wastes of space.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ditto
However, Posi also confirmed that he didn't read these forums, someone provided him with the info.
Fingers crossed they provide him with this!
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
agreed new zones unless there something really special (like a underwater city or a alien world) are pointless redo the hero hazard zones into duel hero/villain not necessarily co-op but joint please
Completely agreed. Players WANT to love zones like DA and Boomtown, and there's some excellent content you could wring out of them.
"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.
fix what neds fixig before adding smt else that will need fixing ... this comment by posi was yet another stupid comment he made and alientate most of us (except from the hardcore CoX'ers)
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab
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fix what neds fixig before adding smt else that will need fixing ... this comment by posi was yet another stupid comment he made and alientate most of us (except from the hardcore CoX'ers)
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Many would say that I'm a hardcore CoHer (I refuse to call it CoX), but he's pretty much managed to alienate me.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Many would say that I'm a hardcore CoHer (I refuse to call it CoX), but he's pretty much managed to alienate me.
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"Positron will die before these eyes and he'll know, he'll know, that it is I, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, that encompasses his doom!"
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Many would say that I'm a hardcore CoHer (I refuse to call it CoX), but he's pretty much managed to alienate me.
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"Positron will die before these eyes and he'll know, he'll know, that it is I, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, that encompasses his doom!"
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As funny as that is, Leif... I just... don't care anymore... 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
IMO opinion, you are far to dependent on this game to let it affect your emotional state so much. You need to get away completly for a while and get a fresh perspective.
I really should do something about this signature.
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IMO opinion, you are far to dependent on this game to let it affect your emotional state so much. You need to get away completly for a while and get a fresh perspective.
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^ That
Sure, passionate about it is one thing. Hell, people are so about things they enjoy!
But, if you're actually getting really downy about it IRL...
Well, things could be a feth load worse, let me tell you.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I agree with EVERYTHING said in this topic. (That hasn't happened in few months)
Revamped Shadow Shards for villains!
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I agree with EVERYTHING said in this topic. (That hasn't happened in few months)
Revamped Shadow Shards for villains!
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Wait for the Coming Storm 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Wait for the Coming Storm
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By the looks of it, I'd spend less time waiting for the second coming of Christ.
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Wait for the Coming Storm
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By the looks of it, I'd spend less time waiting for the second coming of Christ.
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They're probably just a mythical as each other anyway....
*flees*
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
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I agree with EVERYTHING said in this topic. (That hasn't happened in few months)
Revamped Shadow Shards for villains!
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Wait for the Coming Storm
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I'd give that a go but at this rate TOR will be out first.
Revamping zones would be my preferred method, as new zones are always co-op these days, which means we less and less are Heroes and Villains and more just mercenaries. City Of Mercenaries hasn't got the right ring to it. Now maybe adding a new villain zone and revamping a Hero one, that would be preferred for me, as Heroes have plenty of zones, just everything pre striga looks horribly dated
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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I agree with EVERYTHING said in this topic. (That hasn't happened in few months)
Revamped Shadow Shards for villains!
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Wait for the Coming Storm
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He did say that the coming storm is a thing for the far far future.
Well said Leif Roar.
This game needs zones pruned more than it needs them added, revamping is a good compromise.
Yay, more zones, spread the player base even more thinly, great idea Posi.
Completely agree. I was just musing with some sg colleagues the other day about how criminally underused Dark Astoria and Boomtown are.
The triumph that is Faultline should show the devs the right way to go.
To be honest. It would not even take much to breathe life into the zones. All it needs is a few contacts and some arcs. With the new MA tools, a thing much easier to accomplish.
I bet that if they threw us the gauntlet to make arcs for that zone with the big prize making your arc part of the official canon they would have literally dozen serious contenders to choose from.
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To be honest. It would not even take much to breathe life into the zones. All it needs is a few contacts and some arcs. With the new MA tools, a thing much easier to accomplish.
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Would you really want a few more contacts and arcs in Boomtown instead of a new zone featuring stuff we've never seen before? Can you not see what the forums would look like if that's what we got?
"Great, the competition is on the horizon and this game needs shiny new content and stuff to do. And what do we get? A couple of new contacts and few new missions in Boomtown. In BOOMTOWN! We need more than this... stupid devs... ignoring players... etc etc etc"
When Faultline got its revamp, I distinctly remember people complaining that they'd rather have new zones instead of revamped ones. Even more so after the Hollows revamp. That's the problem that developers have: different players want different things at different times, and, just to complicate matters, players also have short memories.
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As I said in the other thread, this does seem to be a real clash of dev opinion vs player opinion.
The devs seem to think that revamping a zone is just a waste of time, after all they're old, they're not shiny, surely the players want shiny?!
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*Sighs* - I must say, this apparent position by the Devs makes me feel sad. Old Zones need revamping!... period.
They were the first zones to be added to the game, they are the first zones experienced by new players. They look old and have too much 'filler' and not enough 'killer' for their size (see warehouse districts in Atlas and Galaxy).
If Paragon Studios is going to take the attitude of not updating beginner zones and keeping them graphically relevant because it is not economical Dev-manpower-investment-wise then don't expect new subscribers to stick around long enough to experience newer ones like Faultline, Perigrine or Cimerora, because I am telling you for a fact trial-users are logging on and are commenting on the tired graphics and design of the zones.
Ridiculous reasoning in my opinion, but to be honest I am spiritually exhausted suggesting points further with if this is truely how the Devs approach what is good for the future of the game.
Commenting on the following comment by Positron:
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Right now, we'd rather add zones, since a revamp takes almost as much time.
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That it takes as much effort to revamp an existing zone as it takes to make a brand new one is no doubt true. It is also irrelevant and misses the point: a zone revamp gives a better result than a new zone does.
There are several reasons why this is so.
First of all, the game -- and particularly hero-side -- has too many zones as it is. The more zones there are, the more you spread the players out among them and the emptier the game appears.
Next, revamping an old zone will get rid of an eyesore. The old hazard zones are ugly, and they're also bland, boring and dull. Players are still sent into Boomtown and Dark Astoria by the mission system, and they still spend a lot of time in King's Row, the Hollows, Perez and Skyway. More importantly, people will judge the game's graphics as much on its ugliest zone as on its prettiest one.
Then, there is the fact that the existing zones have a presence and, for lack of a better term, "cultural baggage." People care about them; there's a sense of "here" to them: they're tied into the game world in a way that a new zone just can not match. And people like that. It makes the game feel more real. Ask a player which of Perez Park and Blood Bay feels more connected to the rest of the game, and I'll bet you dollars to dimes that 80% will answer Perez.
Further, revamping an existing zone brings with it a feeling of change and evolution that adding new zones lego-like to the rest of the game can't match. When zones change and develope it makes the city feel alive. It makes us feel that things are happening, that there is history. It help build the game's character. It strengthens the feel of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. It is good storytelling.
Finally, just ask yourself which were best received and turned out to be the more popular: the revamped Faultline and Rikti War Site, or new zones like Cimeroia, Recluse's Victory and Croatoa?