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when I see a granite tank
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.
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You implying all granite tanks are from PL/farming?
[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm implying they're useless compared to other tanks in the majority of the game.
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That's nice dear but it's not really what the person who brought it up was talking about. They were saying that Farming/PL affects them whenever they come across a PLed character with no idea how to play (like the level 30-something Grav/TA I came across before who admitted he'd been PLed and hadn't taken any of his Trick Arrows powers other than Net Arrow "because they don't do any damage").
[/ QUOTE ]And I was implying people who knew how to play wouldn't roll granite tanks.
I was also making a joke, but I guess I should have known better than to do that without one of these: 
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when I see a granite tank
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.
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You implying all granite tanks are from PL/farming?
[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm implying they're useless compared to other tanks in the majority of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's nice dear but it's not really what the person who brought it up was talking about. They were saying that Farming/PL affects them whenever they come across a PLed character with no idea how to play (like the level 30-something Grav/TA I came across before who admitted he'd been PLed and hadn't taken any of his Trick Arrows powers other than Net Arrow "because they don't do any damage").
[/ QUOTE ]And I was implying people who knew how to play wouldn't roll granite tanks.
I was also making a joke, but I guess I should have known better than to do that without one of these:
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One of what? I've got images switched off along with my sense of humour.
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
[/ QUOTE ]Balance by unification is not a good approach at balance.
I will, absolutely any day of the week have someone on my team with completely red enhancements, SK'd up 20 levels, but has played every single level they earned, over a character PL'd L50.
Any day of the week.
Because I at least know that the guy who's played his toon knows how to play his toon, even if the build is "broken".
Sure, I'd prefer if he's teamed rather than soloed, because the gameplay is different, but there is simply no contest.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Of course the Inf farming could be dealt with by changing the "commission" system for AH sales. By putting a scaling tax on items selling above a given threshold.
For [u]example[u] a 5% increase in commission charge for every extra million Inf of sale price beyond the first up to a maximum of 90% total sale value.
Eg. A Clockwork Winder offered for sale at 1,000,000 inf garners the usual 10% comission on sale. If it were posted up for 4,000,000 then the tax would come into play with a total sale fee of 25%.
If it were posted for sale at 9,000,000 then a 50% fee would be applied, etc.
This would be based on the asking price, not the final sale value. IF the Winder was posted at 1,000,000 but sold for 3,000,000 it would only get the usual 10% comission charge.
A draconian tax but it might bring the hyperinflation into check without interfering with actual gameplay.
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Too much farming hang on how many of you have played mmorpgs since they were releashed . I know i have and Farming has been around since the start moaning about it is not going to stop it happening .We/they find a way and to be honest i hate doing something over and over .But thats the way these games are to get anything you want or need , for your characters you are going to have to farm yourself .Otherwise you wont obtain anything
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Obtain what? Shiny purples? And then what? Phat Lewt? And then what? For chrissakes if the attitude of 'I need to be on God Mode 24/7 - or else I can't play the game' is the real reason for farming then go play 'Barbie Race and Ride'. I hear there isn't the faintest possibility of failing that game...
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My dear your getting very tetchy as the years progress how about improving the rarely used powersets which i use to make them better and yes they do need purples .
Though that statement was for ALL MMORPG's and it remains true to this date
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Too much farming hang on how many of you have played mmorpgs since they were releashed . I know i have and Farming has been around since the start moaning about it is not going to stop it happening .We/they find a way and to be honest i hate doing something over and over .But thats the way these games are to get anything you want or need , for your characters you are going to have to farm yourself .Otherwise you wont obtain anything
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Obtain what? Shiny purples? And then what? Phat Lewt? And then what? For chrissakes if the attitude of 'I need to be on God Mode 24/7 - or else I can't play the game' is the real reason for farming then go play 'Barbie Race and Ride'. I hear there isn't the faintest possibility of failing that game...
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My dear your getting very tetchy as the years progress how about improving the rarely used powersets which i use to make them better and yes they do need purples .
Though that statement was for ALL MMORPG's and it remains true to this date
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What powersets need purples to be effective exactly?
But why? Why must you have purples?
There's still no actual explanation for it!
If the level cap were some ridiculous figure and everything you faced could mez/two-shot you then perhaps I'd see the point but it just seems like farming is for the purpose of getting phat lewt, a la WoW etc, and then doing even more mindless farming and grinding to get a toon from 1-50 in the blink of an eye.
And too right I'm tetchy.
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
[/ QUOTE ]Balance by unification is not a good approach at balance.
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Balance by unifaction = I13 PvP.
Balance in that way is NOT balance! Granite tanks can get floored so very easily, so long as you adapt. Granite is incredibly tough, WHILE ALSO giving you -recharge and -damage. None of other tier 9s do that. It is unique, it looks cool, and for pete sake STOP TALKING ABOUT POINTLESS NERFS.
-deepbreath-
Seriously. This is getting Silly. The sort of Silly I mentioned before.
If the Devs want to stop farming THAT badly, they will just have to come in game and moderate it themselves. Otherwise its All aboard the Failtrain to nerf city. And on that day, Heroes will start to fall.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
[/ QUOTE ]Balance by unification is not a good approach at balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have ten brutes and i rarely need to use tier 9 powers on them, Why use and waste tier 9 power when a single good luck can take its place (and save it for when you get swamped). Thats what i had in mind for granite you dont have to be in granite as a stone brute/tanker to be good but they just seem to keep it on , though i have only ever seen one person switching between the armors for the situation. oh wait thats just me
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Of course the Inf farming could be dealt with by changing the "commission" system for AH sales. By putting a scaling tax on items selling above a given threshold.
For [u]example[u] a 5% increase in commission charge for every extra million Inf of sale price beyond the first up to a maximum of 90% total sale value.
Eg. A Clockwork Winder offered for sale at 1,000,000 inf garners the usual 10% comission on sale. If it were posted up for 4,000,000 then the tax would come into play with a total sale fee of 25%.
If it were posted for sale at 9,000,000 then a 50% fee would be applied, etc.
This would be based on the asking price, not the final sale value. IF the Winder was posted at 1,000,000 but sold for 3,000,000 it would only get the usual 10% comission charge.
A draconian tax but it might bring the hyperinflation into check without interfering with actual gameplay.
[/ QUOTE ]But would you apply the same limit to an inspiration as to the rarest piece of purple salvage?
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
[/ QUOTE ]Balance by unification is not a good approach at balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have ten brutes and i rarely need to use tier 9 powers on them, Why use and waste tier 9 power when a single good luck can take its place (and save it for when you get swamped). Thats what i had in mind for granite you dont have to be in granite as a stone brute/tanker to be good but they just seem to keep it on , though i have only ever seen one person switching between the armors for the situation. oh wait thats just me
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So?
I've seen an Invul tanker with nothing but Resist Physical Damage and Invincibility. At level 26.
Its NOTHING to do with the powers, its the players that play them.
Play smarter, dont break the game.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Of course the Inf farming could be dealt with by changing the "commission" system for AH sales. By putting a scaling tax on items selling above a given threshold.
For [u]example[u] a 5% increase in commission charge for every extra million Inf of sale price beyond the first up to a maximum of 90% total sale value.
Eg. A Clockwork Winder offered for sale at 1,000,000 inf garners the usual 10% comission on sale. If it were posted up for 4,000,000 then the tax would come into play with a total sale fee of 25%.
If it were posted for sale at 9,000,000 then a 50% fee would be applied, etc.
This would be based on the asking price, not the final sale value. IF the Winder was posted at 1,000,000 but sold for 3,000,000 it would only get the usual 10% comission charge.
A draconian tax but it might bring the hyperinflation into check without interfering with actual gameplay.
[/ QUOTE ]But would you apply the same limit to an inspiration as to the rarest piece of purple salvage?
[/ QUOTE ]Yes. It's not the item that sets the Inf value, it's the seller.
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It's not the item that sets the Inf value, it's the seller.
[/ QUOTE ]Items have a certain rarity. The basics of Supply & Demand show that this will influence the pricepoint.
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So? I've seen an Invul tanker with nothing but Resist Physical Damage and Invulnerability. At level 26.
Its NOTHING to do with the powers, its the players that play them.
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I assume you mean "invincibility".
Interesting. I would really like to see that tank in action. I really cannot see how such a build has much survivability.
Surely saying that it is "nothing" to do with the powers is a slight exaggeration?
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when I see a granite tank
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.
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You implying all granite tanks are from PL/farming?
[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm implying they're useless compared to other tanks in the majority of the game.
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As much as it pains me i have to agree with this stone armour is a badly thought out power set all the armours pre teir 9 pale in comparison to granite even the one that gives def to psy pales in comparison to granite because there are so few mobs that do purely psy damage that its far easier to run granite and just heal back any psy damage.
all stones pre granite armours need buffing and granite needs nerfing its sad but true
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
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No that would be bad better that they remove some of there resistance from granite and share it amongst the lower armours (or defence in the case of fire/cold) in effect turning a pre tier 9 stone tank into a hybrid of defence/resistance/regeneration
then take granite and turn it into a stacking armour adjust its def/res so over all you have the same res/def values as current granite maybe slightly higher actually. what you now have is a tank who can scale his defences to the situation but pays for the flexibility in increased end usage
Further make the use of granite fix your run speed something like 10mph (tho idealy if they could add some kind of variable momentum that would be even better so that you were slow to start moveing but once moving would get faster but would then find it dificult to stop & turn that would be even better)
Also for the love of god remove the -dmg and replace with a +dmg modifier
who ever thought getting hit with a granite covered fist is going to hurt less than being hit by just a fist needs there head looking at
if this needs some form of counter debuff add a -to-hit or -acc to represent your slower swings are easier to avoid.
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
[/ QUOTE ]Balance by unification is not a good approach at balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have ten brutes and i rarely need to use tier 9 powers on them, Why use and waste tier 9 power when a single good luck can take its place (and save it for when you get swamped). Thats what i had in mind for granite you dont have to be in granite as a stone brute/tanker to be good but they just seem to keep it on , though i have only ever seen one person switching between the armors for the situation. oh wait thats just me
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So?
I've seen an Invul tanker with nothing but Resist Physical Damage and Invulnerability. At level 26.
Its NOTHING to do with the powers, its the players that play them.
Play smarter, dont break the game.
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Changing Granite from toggle to a clicky is not going to break the game but encourage players to play Smarter staying in Granite isnt needed you nerf your own damage and recharge when in Granite(would also stop the need for Speed Boost would'nt it and the need for teleport power??). So without thinking of the positives you knock them back automatically thinking its completely negative, yet there a tons of players wanting granites or have them and dont want Teleport.
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So? I've seen an Invul tanker with nothing but Resist Physical Damage and Invulnerability. At level 26.
Its NOTHING to do with the powers, its the players that play them.
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I assume you mean "invincibility".
Interesting. I would really like to see that tank in action. I really cannot see how such a build has much survivability.
Surely saying that it is "nothing" to do with the powers is a slight exaggeration?
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Fixed, thanks =P
He performed terribly. He couldnt tank, he couldnt fight very well, and, as expected, he was a really obnoxious person. After two missions, my patience ran out and the Kick Button saw use.
No, fair enough. But looking at Stone armour there are few, if any powers in it that are 'Broken'. Some people mgiht not like them, sure, but it works fine. You might need to adapt to it (as I plan to attempt when servers are back) but it can work fine.
Now take Energy Aura. THAT, as numerous people have said, is broken. Its still vaguely playable, but the ammount of adaption and plugging required tilts it too far.
Players>Powers. I've seen players with quite tough powersets putting others to shame. And some friends have taken the not so tough to play sets and boosted them to whole new levels of awesome.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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It's not the item that sets the Inf value, it's the seller.
[/ QUOTE ]Items have a certain rarity. The basics of Supply & Demand show that this will influence the pricepoint.
[/ QUOTE ]True, but balancing the value of that rarity with the tax would regulate item prices and slash the hyperinflation we currently see.
I suppose a variance scale could be applied to different rarities of item (3% increment for Purples). But that's just fluffy compromising
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[
Now take Energy Aura. THAT, as numerous people have said, is broken. Its still vaguely playable, but the ammount of adaption and plugging required tilts it too far.
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Yeah, i have yet to hear a good report of Energy, i wonder why it remains so broken. Still, im very tempted to roll one as it would be like playing the game on 'Hard Mode' and could actually be alot of fun
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Now take Energy Aura. THAT, as numerous people have said, is broken. Its still vaguely playable, but the ammount of adaption and plugging required tilts it too far.
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Ok yes Energy Aura does seem broken, though if you pick Dark Melee it would do just as good as my Dark/Shield brute.Build it the same way the -to hit would start to make energy shine in ways you thought uninmaginable and the meager heal on energy plus Siphon Life and you've got a very good Brute. Ok now i'm gunna make one of those now. Now all i need is the servers back up.
Thread is well derailed now, so I may as well:
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Changing Granite from toggle to a clicky is not going to break the game but encourage players to play Smarter staying in Granite isnt needed you nerf your own damage and recharge when in Granite(would also stop the need for Speed Boost would'nt it and the need for teleport power??). So without thinking of the positives you knock them back automatically thinking its completely negative, yet there a tons of players wanting granites or have them and dont want Teleport.
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Rooted tends to like teleport as well.
Without purples my granite (who never PL'd and has been kicking about for 3 years) has +40% recharge speed... before it's boosted with hasten. Swift and (if playing at 49/50) assault take the sting out of GAs run and damage debuffs.
Of course, they also mean that I've a decent dmg buff and recharge when out of GA as well...
It may be argued that stone tanks aren't as good as other tanks in many situations, but it's ridiculous to call them useless (as another poster did).
I picked a stoney after playing (In my 1st months in CoX) with a couple of excellent stone tanks, and I'm still convinced that they make great tanks. But it's like any AT/powersets - there are no really bad ones, just people who can't play them well...
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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In a sense i kinda agree Granite shouldnt be a toggle it should be on par with other defensive sets and used once every 3-6 minutes draining the stone brute/tanker of all end and health as such a feat would hurt anyone .
[/ QUOTE ]Balance by unification is not a good approach at balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have ten brutes and i rarely need to use tier 9 powers on them, Why use and waste tier 9 power when a single good luck can take its place (and save it for when you get swamped). Thats what i had in mind for granite you dont have to be in granite as a stone brute/tanker to be good but they just seem to keep it on , though i have only ever seen one person switching between the armors for the situation. oh wait thats just me
[/ QUOTE ]
So?
I've seen an Invul tanker with nothing but Resist Physical Damage and Invulnerability. At level 26.
Its NOTHING to do with the powers, its the players that play them.
Play smarter, dont break the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Changing Granite from toggle to a clicky is not going to break the game but encourage players to play Smarter staying in Granite isnt needed you nerf your own damage and recharge when in Granite(would also stop the need for Speed Boost would'nt it and the need for teleport power??). So without thinking of the positives you knock them back automatically thinking its completely negative, yet there a tons of players wanting granites or have them and dont want Teleport.
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No but it would brake stone functions tahnks to its ability to adapt (which i was trying to build on in my suggestion above) turn granit into a click and it becomes the worst teir 9 armour in the game not only dose it nerf your speed recharge and damage but by your suggestion would drain you of health and endurance when it failed.
so to balance it into a click you would have to remove its negatives or not have it drain health/end on failing either way you end up with a less than great tier 9
and the lower armours would still need a buff to bring them up to the same lvl as other non tier 9 using brutes/tanks
It is of my oppinion that although MA yielded different results than intended, it does cater to almost everyone. Those going "farming = DOOM" need to understand that if you're going to have a game with a capitalist system *go communism go* you will have people with more influence than others. If farming is your bag, then farm. If interesting and enthralling storylines are your drug of choice, then I'm all for you storying your brains out. Going on about "It's ruining the economy" is more doom™ than I'd like to read here especially considering you can effectively solo your TF drops now and reliably get rare salvage that previously cost an arm and a leg to get off the BM. In short you're saying "Someone put in the effort to get more money than me, now it's too expensive and it's their fault. Damn them for their efforts, now I have to work for what I want."
Influence issues aside, I do not like the powerleveling side of it. Newbies getting 1-50 in a couple days is wrong. You don't learn the game, you don't learn your toon and you become reliant on the ridiculous ammounts of farm XP you're accustomed to. Don't do it, play your god damn game properly. If you're experienced, as far as the word goes, then farm if you like - it's understandable to me that you don't want to trudge through the same content you've been through time and time before.
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when I see a granite tank
[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.
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You implying all granite tanks are from PL/farming?
[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm implying they're useless compared to other tanks in the majority of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's nice dear but it's not really what the person who brought it up was talking about. They were saying that Farming/PL affects them whenever they come across a PLed character with no idea how to play (like the level 30-something Grav/TA I came across before who admitted he'd been PLed and hadn't taken any of his Trick Arrows powers other than Net Arrow "because they don't do any damage").
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Yeah, thats exactly what i meant when i raised the issue. I have a rather laissez faire attitude to PL and farming, but when i team at high levels i expect everyone to pull their weight and know their role in the team. It used to be that way, i still expect it.
Its for that reason i personally wouldnt ever PL certain ATs, because i want to organically learn the limits so i am not [censored] when i get to end-game. When PL affects teaming, it becomes bad imho