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Simple way to stop extreme PLing. Make trainer visits mandatory before you can start earning xp towards your next level. Done.
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Not sure if this good, as i'm a terrible one for soildering on even if i level and not even cashing in my levels to really need to. I'd still like to be getting xp to my next level even tho ive still to claim ones ive got banked.
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We really don't want people running off after every ding and before level 20ish I tend to ignore the odd levels entirely and only visit a trainer at the even ones. But in principle it's a good idea if it only applied after level 20 and let you earn up to 0.999999 of the next level (to stop people dinging and running off immediately).
So basically a 2 level limit (or 1.99999999) per mission after level 20 (with apologies to JD for breaking his oddball case. Make up your mind man 
)
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stupid idea tbh. if ppl ant to pl let them. its nt harming neone as longas they dont over spam the broadcast
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*runs translator*
That's a big If though Trademark. One which simply isn't true at all. Broadcast is being spammed. New players are earning 20-30 levels in an hour.
I don't especially mind reasonable Farming and PLing at all. It's the ridiculous excesses the game has sunk to since i14 which are causing problems.
And they will hurt people like me because the Devs will end up using the Sledgehammer of Damocles on the MA in some shape or form and chances are my normal playstyle will be impacted by it.
Limiting the number of levels a person can earn in mish is more reasonable to me compared to brutally culling MA rewards in an attempt to stop the excess (and it is an excess) of farming going on in the Starting Zones.
I wonder what's in todays patch?
todays patches i think are to fix SG bases
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab
i know i14 has made this game city of farmers, but i realised that before i14 was even here, it was blatently obvious it would turn into city of farmers. this is whati will say... it u think werehaving it bad this side of the pond. just try to comprehend what some of the yankie servers must be going through
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab
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Simple way to stop extreme PLing. Make trainer visits mandatory before you can start earning xp towards your next level. Done.
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Not sure if this good, as i'm a terrible one for soildering on even if i level and not even cashing in my levels to really need to. I'd still like to be getting xp to my next level even tho ive still to claim ones ive got banked.
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We really don't want people running off after every ding and before level 20ish I tend to ignore the odd levels entirely and only visit a trainer at the even ones. But in principle it's a good idea if it only applied after level 20 and let you earn up to 0.999999 of the next level (to stop people dinging and running off immediately).
So basically a 2 level limit (or 1.99999999) per mission after level 20 (with apologies to JD for breaking his oddball case. Make up your mind man )
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stupid idea tbh. if ppl ant to pl let them. its nt harming neone as longas they dont over spam the broadcast
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Actually on wrong run it hurts, Saphi. Did you ever do a TF with a leecher, a person who has slightest idea of what his powers do? You learn many things during your leveling process to level 50.
Even we can see Sewer Run as a power leveling, you put effort and time to complete that run.
As a TF lover like me i ask you one question, do you want to run a Statesman TF with a tank who doesn't know what the heck is mez protection or don't have taunt? Or an Empath with whole attacks but only Healing Aura?
Yes, farming doesn't bother me much, people can do whatever they want with their time but PLing will also ruin my enjoyment from the game in long run, especially new players dragged into it.
Also not related to your post;
About that mandotary leveling. DDO has that limit for 2 levels but their missions are tailored by keeping that fact in mind. On low levels you get 2 levels only on Frostfire with a full team. Think other missions like Atta which is usually further than Frostie to a trainer.
Removing XP from MA will hurt that system greatly. I really like doing lowbie arcs on my new characters instead of running around in Galaxy or Atlas without travel power. I still prefer Faultline or Croatoa on my higher level heroes as those arcs are really good. MA is also good for filling 35-40 gap. Standart contacts giving my least favorite groups unluckily on that level range (Council or DE).
Personally i think any kind of XP nerf would be a bad idea. People would be less inclined to play architect missions I know i would. Leveling is a inherent part of the game getting that new power in the early levels can often be the driving force to keep going (for me at least) and then in the higher levels it moves to getting slots to make your powers better any slowing of this process is going to drive people away from the architect.
However it would appear the majority are convinced that farming needs to be stopped because its damaging the game. I'm not convinced were not even a month after a the architects release so how claims that its destroying the market can be made I'm not sure as everything's still up in the air. Though i will admit its changing the market but I'm not sure its changing it in a bad way as some one else mentioned the red side market is having a boom.
As to how to dissuade farmers as i already said any kind of XP nerf would be bad IMO its not going to stop any dedicated farmer just look at the claims in this thread of people going from 1 to 50 in 6 hours, so its going to take them 12 hours big deal that's not going to stop them even a reduction to 10 percent of the current XP is still going to see the most dedicated lvl to 50 within a week. But in the process of increasing the time to farm from 1 to 50 you've killed architect it would go from a something that was universally played by players from lvl 1 to 50 to something that is played by lvl 50s and even then many of them are going to be running normal missions in the hope of getting purples.
When i first read this i did consider suggesting that the amount of inf be decreased as it would make sense from a game lore point of view after all defeating virtual bad guys isn't going to gain you as much influence compared to the real versions. but doing this is again going to harm the non farmer much more than the farmer the farmer more than likely already has loads of inf.
Something that mite work could be a severe form of diminishing returns do the same arc more than once and you would receive a hefty drop in XP, Inf and tickets by hefty I'm thinking 50% drop for the second run and 100% for run 3 and above with a 48 or 62 hour cool down period of course this could still effect the normal gamer as they may find a mish they like and want to runa it a few times plus there's also the abundance of farming arcs so its possible that the farmers mite not be effected if they switch arks constantly.
another option is to actually take a official and public stance on farming which is something i don't think has been done yet they could actively encourage players to report farm missions.
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So basically a 2 level limit (or 1.99999999) per mission after level 20 (with apologies to JD for breaking his oddball case. Make up your mind man )
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Actually you don't break my 'oddball case' as you changed to supporting a variation that, IIRC, I made.
The original suggestion was for insisting on trainer visits before xp is earnt. Then someone (your good self iirc)suggested allowing xp to still be earnt for a couple of levels.
I modified this to say that IMO if they did something like this then it was better to put a cap on number of levels earnt per mission. This seems to be what you are now stating (as shown by the words per mission).
This wouldn't break my edge case characters, as they may have dinged 50 woithout training to 45, but they did so in many, many missions. They probably never gained more than 2 or 3 bubbles per mission, and IIRC probably didn't hit 1 whole level per mission even with patrol xp and full teams on TFs (ITF/LGTF).
As it happens 2 levels per mission after level 20 is IMO more than non-PLing can acheive. I've recently been in fire/rad troller and fire/kin corruptor superteams and even they only manage a ding every few missions after level 20.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I recall the original intention for MA rewards was for it to be limited to Half XP/Inf for published arcs, with Dev Choice Arcs getting elevated to full xp/inf.
Would setting the rewards to that level solve the PL/Farming problem?
@Saphi;
I agree there's no way to stop people farming; while there are faster and slower ways to gain XP, there will always be people routinely using the high-end XP systems. But you can tweak the system in such a way as to make sure that 30% of new players' first experience of the game is not this...
Broadcast
Farmer Joe: farm team lfm
Inside new player's head
New player: Ooh, a team. I would quite like a team, as I am here to socialise.
Tell
New Player: Hey farmer joe, I'd quite like to be on a team.
Farmer Joe: OK lol i send invite come to ma
New Player: MA?
Farmer Joe: sure it a buildin made by dev 4 pl'in
New Player: OK, you're level 50, I'm sure I could learn a lot from you!
Enter mission >>> Inside new player's head
New Player: Well, this isn't that much fun, not a great game, but at least I'm levelling fast. I guess that's the aim of the game. Wish they'd let me do something other than stand at the entrance.
New player hits 50 after 10 hours of play...
Broadcast:
New Player: Farm team lfm!
Inside other new player's head...
Other New Player: Ooh, I'd quite like to team. Also, he's level 50, I could learn a lot about the game mechanics from him!
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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todays patches i think are to fix SG bases
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Removal of exploitable issues ingame are never mentioned in patchnotes. Apart from the obvious ones 
And as for Wilfred, people are not _that_ stupid. They just learn the 'easy' way first, its a common thing in every game. Eventualy they still do stuff the normal way, but who are you to tell them 'how' they should get to 50? Because you did it the 'normal' way, they should do to?
Normal is relative, if a new player ones does sewer, newspaper, Orobo and MA, he is 'differnt' then a story-arc playing person? At the end you do the exact same, wack a mob, finish a mission, next one. Its says nothing about possible player skills. And even if they get pl'ed to 50, it was their choice, their toon, within the rules of this game.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
And as for Wilfred...
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Well, sure, people aren't that stupid. But the start of a new game can be overwhelming enough as it is, and if the first 10 teaming offers are all farmfills for the MA, how are they to know what else is on offer?
And if their first 50 is pretty boring, their build unfulfilling because they haven't played around with the powers, what incentive is there to stick around for another one? I suspect attrition rate is probably high among those pl'd.
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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And as for Wilfred...
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Well, sure, people aren't that stupid. But the start of a new game can be overwhelming enough as it is, and if the first 10 teaming offers are all farmfills for the MA, how are they to know what else is on offer?
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Aye. To be honest the talk in Atlas reminds me of the chat in the cities in The Other Game, I never knew what the hell others were talking about. But I wasn't brand new, I'd spent a week or so getting there. It'd be nice to move the MA Farming talk to another zone just so new people can ease into the game proper before engaging in Level 53 Rikti XP Orgies.
And JD, you're right, the per mish thing means your level 44 would be unaffected, my mistake, soz.
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I recall the original intention for MA rewards was for it to be limited to Half XP/Inf for published arcs, with Dev Choice Arcs getting elevated to full xp/inf.
Would setting the rewards to that level solve the PL/Farming problem?
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Correct and it was abandoned due to peoples general reply of "why play for half XP when i can do paper missions for full XP" and thus the idea was abandoned.
And as i said any reduction of 50% in XP is not going to stop farmers as there still going to be racking in XP far quicker than doing normal missions.
something dose occur most farm missions I've found rely on having a single mob as the enemy you face even perhaps some kind of minimum number of enemies in a group something like
1x Boss variant
1x lieutenant variant
3x minion variant
also a reduction in how many rescues you can have mite help
and if nothing else a variation in mob type may make farm missions more interesting as there would be more things to kill.
BTW - as previously posted elsewhere, if you really don't like farming then there is a short humorous storyarc that I created as an antidote to farming:
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Of course, if you don't like farms you could always try shutting one down...
YES - IT'S A SHAMELESSS PLUG FOR 'Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh!' arc 3662
Consistently voted 'funniest arc between 3661 and 3663'!
Hear what the critics said:
"mildly amusing"
"Nearly funny"
"stop pestering me to play your <censored> arc - welcome to /ignore n00b"
With reviews like that you know you can't go wrong!
Brought to you by the House of Mohawk - the mark of quality humour... though not neccessarily high quality.
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It's a short-3-mission arc with JD's sense of humour, but it also has some good points.
The real comments have included:
"Highly amusing and well thought out."
"Genuinely funny and really well observed. Especially as I was playing this in Atlas, surrounded by people asking for farms and PLs whenever I exited while I was playing this....."
"that actually made me laugh out loud. Well done, very funny."
"Now THAT was a laugh! XD"
There's other comments/reviews for this mission on City of Guides.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
"That was a bit of shameless advertising"
"Hey. Worked on me"
"Me too"
Although I still haven't forgiven your AV/EB Plumber for being a big girl, fleeing around the map with Radiation Infection on and thus coming back with a few friends (and squishing me).
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Although I still haven't forgiven your AV/EB Plumber for being a big girl, fleeing around the map with Radiation Infection on and thus coming back with a few friends (and squishing me).
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I had a lot of building work done early last year - what can I say: that's handymen for you.
I just hope that after he and his friends squished you they gave you an extortionate bill for it.
BTW - I did drop the Handyman down from EB to Boss before it was published in live. 
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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And as for Wilfred...
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, sure, people aren't that stupid. But the start of a new game can be overwhelming enough as it is, and if the first 10 teaming offers are all farmfills for the MA, how are they to know what else is on offer?
And if their first 50 is pretty boring, their build unfulfilling because they haven't played around with the powers, what incentive is there to stick around for another one? I suspect attrition rate is probably high among those pl'd.
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True true, but i asume you base this from EU experience?
This game is US, their servers decide what, when how and why. Being in atlas there is 10 times different then here, normal parties are done in the dozen, even villian side. True, MA got a big chunk, but already quite some got fed up with MA and the lack of mission bonus and you can team with them on normal missions again.
The fail (imho) devs made, making you travel alot for each mission (PI excluded). MA and oro are alot easier to do so, specialy on the early lvls where not everyone has a travel (or did not do bank mission).
And if your first 50 is boring, you make another one Overal (with pl) you do it way faster then doing it the 'hard' way, thus giving those people a wider range of knowledge on sets. I see more people quiting characters because their fun only starts after 30-40s, then 50s who made a wrong choice of taking that set. And there are very little few that get such high lvl with just MA fillers, it aint going that fast.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be nice to move the MA Farming talk to another zone just so new people can ease into the game proper before engaging in Level 53 Rikti XP Orgies.
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Agreed.
Is it going to harm the game if the MA building is removed from the starting zones? Do new players to the game really want to go and make thier own missions as soon as they have created a character or will they be learning the game first by playing it?
Why not remove the MA buildings from the starting zones? Then people that are new have some breathing space to learn the game.
Tidgy
---------------
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It'd be nice to move the MA Farming talk to another zone just so new people can ease into the game proper before engaging in Level 53 Rikti XP Orgies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed.
Is it going to harm the game if the MA building is removed from the starting zones? Do new players to the game really want to go and make thier own missions as soon as they have created a character or will they be learning the game first by playing it?
Why not remove the MA buildings from the starting zones? Then people that are new have some breathing space to learn the game.
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Have to say, this is a damn good idea, to be honest. In fact, I'd be tempted to take it a little further and suggest shunting them into the 10-20 zones at the lowest.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* I think that would appear somewhat contrary to the devs proud boast that you can go from 1-50 using nothing but MA if you want.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
I'm not suggesting that low level characters and arcs be removed from MA - just that the buildings are removed from those zones. This would give newbies a chance to experience the start of the game, but wouldn't be overly detrimental to those people who want to hop on the train and PL or farm or whatever - but it would give a better impression in the starting zones.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
[ QUOTE ]
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I recall the original intention for MA rewards was for it to be limited to Half XP/Inf for published arcs, with Dev Choice Arcs getting elevated to full xp/inf.
Would setting the rewards to that level solve the PL/Farming problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
Correct and it was abandoned due to peoples general reply of "why play for half XP when i can do paper missions for full XP" and thus the idea was abandoned.
[/ QUOTE ]Well there's the catch 22. You either make the MA less efficient and therefore undesireable for PL/Farm teams and consequently diminish it's appeal as a source of regular xp when compared to the likes of scanner missions. Or you leave it as it is with all the broadcast spam, "2 mission 50s" and poor impressions for ~30% of the new players we currently have. As with many things in life, you can't always have your cake and eat it.
[ QUOTE ]
And as i said any reduction of 50% in XP is not going to stop farmers as there still going to be racking in XP far quicker than doing normal missions.
[/ QUOTE ] For something (PL/Farming) that is based around getting "the most milk for the least moo" I'd expect a 50% reduction in milk would make the proportionate increase in moo much less appealing.
[ QUOTE ]
something dose occur most farm missions I've found rely on having a single mob as the enemy you face even perhaps some kind of minimum number of enemies in a group something like
1x Boss variant
1x lieutenant variant
3x minion variant
also a reduction in how many rescues you can have mite help
and if nothing else a variation in mob type may make farm missions more interesting as there would be more things to kill.
[/ QUOTE ]The problem there is that it interferes with the making of custom groups by setting a requirement of having two types of mob in the minion tier, not everyone can spare the storage space for that extra mob (it's suprising how quickly that 100k can disappear). Additionally all a canny PL/Farmer would need to do is clone and rename the original mob.
I'm curious, how do rescues contribute to farming? Is it a way of increasing the number of mobs in a mission?
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I think that would appear somewhat contrary to the devs proud boast that you can go from 1-50 using nothing but MA if you want.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well technically you still could. You'd just have to Death Race to Steel/Talos to do so
(Ok, Atlas/Galaxy to Steel is probably the most rubbish death race ever)
That said I'd prefer locking the early MA buildings to just under level 10 rather than deleting them totally.
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I'm not suggesting that low level characters and arcs be removed from MA - just that the buildings are removed from those zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
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You'd just have to Death Race to Steel/Talos to do so
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why I said 'somewhat against' the devs 1-50 using MA boast.
It would detract due to needing the deathrace to another zone (and KR would be preferable to Steel - steel is in the higher part of the zone near the greenline train, KR is pretty near the yellowline train - so straight there from Atlas/Galaxy).
And what happens then?
You already get new characters often getting tells about SGs (or, worse, blind SG invites) within minutes of creation. I bet you'd just get tells/blinds asking you onto PL/farm teams...
And the broadcast in KR/Steel/Talos plummets to the level of Atlas...
I don't think that removing the MA from starting zones is the answer. But it is a knee-jerk reaction that wouldn't really solve anything but which the devs could implement pretty easily.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not suggesting that low level characters and arcs be removed from MA - just that the buildings are removed from those zones. This would give newbies a chance to experience the start of the game, but wouldn't be overly detrimental to those people who want to hop on the train and PL or farm or whatever - but it would give a better impression in the starting zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it would but i hate the idea of losing good arcs for lowbies because of some farmers. And I WANT alternatives from the normal low level content.
farming isnt an exploit though. farmers "will always" find a way to farm. it happens in all games. oh and also if devs are so much against farming. why do they allow farming for badges, becoz isnt this a similar exploit (btw i do know ma doesn't allow defeat badges)
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab