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1) Don't go to Men In Black for knowledge.
2) No ones assuming anything but 2 things, people like fun and people like a challenge but its in overcoming a challenge that people can be more proud of.
3) People aren't stupid just because they aren't into politics. Politicians are devious and your damned whoever you vote for.
4) Having an IQ of 100 is good, not bad, but good. You can get anywhere in life through effort and the more you do something the quicker you get at it.
5) Various people don't come to the forums. Normally they don't have time for it. You say one thing and it gets turned into something else based on what someone adds and reads of it.
4) I wouldn't if I could reveal the Private Message but it was basically not what you though it was.
5) I am pretty sure I took exception to you thinking I was an advanced gamer compared to most. I was so sure it was me I was trying to denounce as an advanced gamer you know, so out of all the other things, where did you get that from?
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I don't know where u got that politics comment from, but people are stupid, regardless.
And to stalko, BD's are no good in pvp >.>
My Dominator in dynasty set with a +25 AM is ftw, even though dominator's should really use blunts cos of the stun xD
Anyways, back on topic, yeah, people are stupid.
My post may of followed on from yours Razor but it was in reply to Stalkobot and the comment about politics stems from Stalkobots comment.
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As for you expecting people over 16 to be able to think for themselves, well thats just silly, after all, look at the governments over 18s vote in.
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All this is becoming far too much in the way of pointless spam and derail. I am really looking to get to "somewhere near" the bottom of things on as to why some people find Banes weak, unbalanced or unplayable while others don't. It must be in the builds and it must be in the play and right now its got my attention. Builds that are tight, challenging and basically a nightmare to get right can hopefully be made so much easier and better to play.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Agree, let's not turn this into a political coop.
Anyway, i think its probably because like that other topic states people aren't taking their toggles. Mind you, i only took assault.
end of the day what we need to do is that those that find banes good and fun to play, need to post their exact build and their style of play or better still post a vid of them playing so we can see where others are going wrong.
speaking from personal experiance a friend of mine tried a bane and said "its pants and really squishy" when i saw how he played it he just simply ran in and started spamming his melee attacks, So i had a go and ran in started with Shatter for the ES then Pulvarise then bash then retreat and fire off Mace beam (Or better still Poison ray) then close in and repeat
Regards
Spider
I have to say after my first night of playing with my new Bane, I found him anything but squishy. Taking on 2 Freakshow bosses (+2) at level 24 is not what I would consider squishy. <---Only teaming with 1 Widow at the time also, so there was no stupid amounts of defence happening
I think it comes down to the tactics tbh having seen a few other banes about. Depending on what power picks you have should dictate what kind of play style you go for and not the other way round. Personally I started off with an even 2 mellee (bash & shatter) and 2 range attacks (mace blast & poison ray) this way I can jump in and out of mellee therefore making the most of my extra ranged defence. I'm at work at the moment but here's a rough overview of what my build was at 24.
1) Bane Armour Upgrade - 2 x Res
1) Bash - 3 x Damage, 1 x Rech
2) Combat Training: Defensive - 2 x Def
4) Combat Training: Offensive - 2 x Acc
6) Mace Blast - 2 x Damage, 1 x Rech
8) Swift -
10) Tactical Training: Maneuvers - 3 x Def
12) Poisonous Ray - 3 x Dam, 1 x Rech
14) Venom Greade - 3 x Rech, 1 x Acc
16) Health - 1 x Heal
18) Shatter - 3 x Dam, 2 x Rech
20) Stamina - 3 x End Mod
22) Mental Training -
24) Cloaking Device - 1 x Def
This give me a constant 35% to ranged and 25% to all else, this is before even starting to look at IO's and pool powers to top that up.
I hope this is of some use to people. But I am certainly not finding that Banes are the gimped set that it has been made out to be.
No one has said they where gimped.
Gimped is not the same as unbalanced.
I really should do something about this signature.
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No one has said they where gimped.
Gimped is not the same as unbalanced.
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You are right, I should not have said gimped. But I do think that there is a lot more scope for them than they are being credit for.
You are failing to see the problem despite your numbers highlighting it.
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35% to ranged and 25% to all else
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You have decient defense vs ranged. Unforunatly all your high damage attacks are melee, where your defense is low and you lack KB protection.
All this is fine, until you compare to a Night Widow, who has thier best attacks melee and thier best defense also melee.
So, whilst a bane spider may have to retreat to range in order to survive an encounter, significantly reducing thier DPS, a Night Widow can stay at melee range and maintain maximum damage output.
I really should do something about this signature.
I can see those numbers but I think what also is not being thought about is the fact that crab spiders will use the same armour who are predominatly ranged. Much the same as the Widows who have a melee def power but how much use is that to a Fortunata who mainly works at ranged?
If you were to talk about the distinct lack of a decent Tier 9, i'd be agreeing with you. But I cannot agree with the fact that Banes are unbalanced due to one power not fitting your idealogy of what a Bane should or shouldn't have. From my own experience they seem to work pretty well, and being a bit of a number cruncher I have to admit that sometimes just figures alone do not tell the full story.
Though it is good to have a constructive conversation about the different standpoints we have 
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crab spiders will use the same armour who are predominatly ranged.
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Crabs most definately do not use the same armour.
Crab ranged attacks are as good or better than melee attacks. They don't loose anything by staying at range. In addition, they have a whole lot more resistance, more max hp, more mez protection, and a self heal.
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a Fortunata who mainly works at ranged?
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They have mez for protection. They are not directly comparable anyway, since they aren't required to adopt a damage dealer role.
I really should do something about this signature.
Did devs ever stated or explained what the 'role' of a Bane will be? Kheldians were pretty straight forward (jack of all trades), widows tend to go domi style.
Bane more sounds like a defender with limited MM abilities.
edit: btw, i dont see a dullpain power as heal. Just a health-panic button, so i dont see it as 'valid' defense point.
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(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
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Ok, again my exact phrasing wasn't the best. I will try and explain better.
Banes & Crabs both have access to the Combat Training: Defensive. Which I believe was your original point with me?
And whilst the list of Crab perks that you have listed sounds good, there are also perks on the Bane side that the crab does not have i.e. criticals, placate, extra defence to all through cloaking device. So it is all relative to what is more attractive to your playstyle and your power choices.
I suppose really how you feel about them depends on what you expect and have experienced already. Having not played any of the other VEAT i cannot say how under/over powered they might be. But I think Bane's are doing just fine.
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widows tend to go domi style.
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Night Widows are nothing like doms. They have no real mez, and few ranged atatcks. Fortunatas are potentially more dom-like, depending on how you build them, there are a lot of options.
Night Widow powers are geared more towards single target burst damage, with a sideline in team buffing. The same goes for banes really. Banes get more ranged attacks, but they are reletively weak compared to thier melee attacks.
Banes are nothing like an MM, it is crab spiders that get lots of pets.
If you only use a Dull Pain power as a panic button you are woefully underutilising the power on whatever AT you have it on.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Did devs ever stated or explained what the 'role' of a Bane will be? Kheldians were pretty straight forward (jack of all trades), widows tend to go domi style.
Bane more sounds like a defender with limited MM abilities.
edit: btw, i dont see a dullpain power as heal. Just a health-panic button, so i dont see it as 'valid' defense point.
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its not very good for a panic button as the animation is massive, after injecting yourself you get to stand there beating yourself on the chest ala integration, I think it was a mini (or full) unstoppable before it went to beta
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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And whilst the list of Crab perks that you have listed sounds good, there are also perks on the Bane side that the crab does not have i.e. criticals, placate, extra defence to all through cloaking device. So it is all relative to what is more attractive to your playstyle and your power choices.
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The extra defense from cloaking device is tiny compared to the extra resistance crabs get. But yes, a direct comparison is difficult because they don't do the same job.
However, Night Widows and Banes do do basically the same job. The difference being, Night Widows do it better.
I really should do something about this signature.
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And whilst the list of Crab perks that you have listed sounds good, there are also perks on the Bane side that the crab does not have i.e. criticals, placate, extra defence to all through cloaking device. So it is all relative to what is more attractive to your playstyle and your power choices.
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Crabs can get stealth and a stealth IO which isnt far off the pathetic defence numbers of cloaking device, banes however cant dial in the massive resistences of fortitude. Crabs damage and mitigation tools are far superior to banes and can have perma 6 pets out which do massive amounts of damage, they are a blasterscrappermind, if you are trying to extoll the benefits of banes you dont want to be making any comparisons to the other veats 
Bane are fun, banes are lacking in comparison to the other 3 branches
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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However, Night Widows and Banes do do basically the same job. The difference being, Night Widows do it better.
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I see what you are getting at here, but as far as I can see Night Widows are all about pure damage and no de-buff of any sort. Whereas the Bane's have surveillance and also venom grenade to de-buff resistance by 40% (60% for toxic attacks) making them more useful for AV/GM fights ( I know that AV's have a resistance factor to debuffs but you get my point). The 2 are comparable, but they are most definetley are not the same thing.
Banes don't get venom grenade (unless you are prepared to tolarate massive redraw delays interupting your attack chain).
And as for AV fights, nothing really beats the value of the -regen that Night Widows give.
I really should do something about this signature.
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However, Night Widows and Banes do do basically the same job. The difference being, Night Widows do it better.
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I see what you are getting at here, but as far as I can see Night Widows are all about pure damage and no de-buff of any sort. Whereas the Bane's have surveillance and also venom grenade to de-buff resistance by 40% (60% for toxic attacks) making them more useful for AV/GM fights ( I know that AV's have a resistance factor to debuffs but you get my point). The 2 are comparable, but they are most definetley are not the same thing.
[/ QUOTE ]But NWs can get off faster attack chains, and surely that is useful in AV fights? Sustained DPS is very important, and NWs have higher ST damage numbers.
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Bane are fun, banes are lacking in comparison to the other 3 branches
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I agree with the Bane secondary lacking, but only because of the the Tier 9. I think if this was something more desirable the majority of the bad feeling towards Bane's would go away. But I still think that mine has more than held his own in any team I have been in so far.
Banes do get a tiar 9. They share Call reinforcments with crabs. Nothing wrong with it. The lack of balance has nothing to do with "tiar 9". NWs outperform banes even without Elude.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Banes do get a tiar 9. They share Call reinforcments with crabs. Nothing wrong with it. The lack of balance has nothing to do with "tiar 9". NWs outperform banes even without Elude.
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Ok if you want to be picky!! 
The difference between:
Crab - Summon Spiderlings
Widow - Elude
Fortunata - Aura of Confusion
&
Bane - Web Cocoon
I think this is a mis-match and it really would go some way to addressing the thoughts that people have.
Web cocoon sucks, hope that's frank enough.
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widows tend to go domi style.
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Night Widows are nothing like doms. They have no real mez, and few ranged atatcks. Fortunatas are potentially more dom-like, depending on how you build them, there are a lot of options.
Night Widow powers are geared more towards single target burst damage, with a sideline in team buffing. The same goes for banes really. Banes get more ranged attacks, but they are reletively weak compared to thier melee attacks.
Banes are nothing like an MM, it is crab spiders that get lots of pets.
If you only use a Dull Pain power as a panic button you are woefully underutilising the power on whatever AT you have it on.
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Are you just being ignorant to read exactly what i post, or you like to like to dissagree with me by default?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Ah, L2... *hugs his female BD in Blue Wolf with SLS*SLS*
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"