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both spiders will be just as potent as the other
Crabs with there AoE and more pets will do alot of wide spread damage (and thus take alot of aggro which leads to the we need healer on team line)
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Crab AOEs have larger areas, and are more potent because crabs have an aoe res debuff, whereas banes only have a single target res debuff. Crabs have more than twice as many pets. Whilst a Bane might "need a healer" Crabs can heal themselves.
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Bane spider who will have ALOT less damage and placate as a damage increaser/escape too.
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You do realise the recharge time on Bane placate has just been tripled?
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ppl said stalkers couldent do MoRSF
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No one said they couldn't do it. they just said it would be easier with a different AT instead. Which it is. With the side effect of making it harder to get a place on a team for such an attempt. Stalkers at least perform satisactory in PvP and solo PvE. Banes are inferior to other ATs at everything. You might still play one because you like a challenge or for RP reasons, but to make an AT weaker by design, with nothing that can't be done better by another AT, is simply poor design in a multiplayer game.
I really should do something about this signature.
I don't see widows with 15% Maneuvers Praf..oh no..XD..that is ofc unless they changed it since I last looked but Widows can comfortably be very elusive. Good idea imo seeing as with vengeance you'd want to be the most likely to be left standing.
As it is, everything is on test. So nothing is actually nerfed. Nothing is finalized...and I don't know but 20 sec recharge may of been unintended and tweaks to balance the change may not even happen.
At level 50 I do wonder what would put a Bane down in 7 seconds in PvP (20 secs recharge and hastened placate). Add the fact you might jump about, you'd never lose in a duel mode unless your a left handed female character.
Number crunching to see if things are balanced is a mammoth task. Its not simply compare this power with that and eliminate it. Some powers work with other powers better. It would take me days to compare sets, not even properly, just as best I could. Banes maybe okay! Its just everybody else...
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Also can't Banes get the Venom Grenade from the Arachnos Soldier pool? Though there is a redraw, essentially it's not that different
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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Number crunching to see if things are balanced is a mammoth task.
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Yes it is.
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Its not simply compare this power with that and eliminate it.
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No, you have to compare the set as a whole.
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Some powers work with other powers better. It would take me days to compare sets, not even properly, just as best I could. Banes maybe okay! Its just everybody else...
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Yes. I have done the comparison. I have done the maths myself. I have taken the set as a whole. I have compared like with like. I have done it myself, not gone by what other people have said. And yes, it has taken a couple of days.
And you know what? In the current test build bane spiders work out inferior to anything similar, not just in one area but across the board. I am not saying they are unplayable, just unbalanced. I'm not saying that bane spiders will be inferior when issue 12 goes live. I am saying that as things stand at the moment the desperately need a buff.
Mene, Mene, Tekel, Parsin.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Also can't Banes get the Venom Grenade from the Arachnos Soldier pool? Though there is a redraw, essentially it's not that different
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Yes, but I think most players would consider the redraw incompatable with fun play.
It's worth nothing that Pummel from the wolf set could also be usesful to suvival, as it has a higher chance of sun than any of the mace powers, and frag grenade has a higher chance of KB. I just don't think that many banes will be happy to discover that thier old gun is a better weapon than thier shiny mace.
I really should do something about this signature.
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You mean: Banes should suck without a team because Syracuse hates people who solo?
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Agree praf, syracause can get a life and learn to play, he's probably just a leecher who likes people doing the worlk for him when he sits back and does nothing.
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You two should get together and perform a stand-up routine. You'll hear the laughter from Australia.
Thank you, i';m glad i have at least sparked SOME active disscussion by the pro's at the game, and i mean that sincerely, 
us from the EU servers don't have much of a voice compared to that of the american ones, but we sure as hell can try to be heard. ^^
I mean I have heard alot of people saying Banes are awesome, Any who have been on this board for any length of time will know how much I wanted Banes to become playable and to be honest I thought they were great at 24 then at 25-27 im strangely starting to struggle. I got to the mish where you get into midnight
****POSSIBLE SPOILERS********
where I was attacked by Statues that all conned Yellow to me, they proceeded to rip me apart as they surrounded me.
Im sure I Have just made a mistake with the build but heres what i have so far
Bash
Pulvarise
Shatter
Buildup
Combat Jumping
Super jump
Sprint
Health
Stamina
Wolf Spider Armor
Bane Spider Armor
Cloaking Device
Combat Training: Offence
Placate
***Not in that order***
Regards
spider
I got destroyed by 1 boss (purple of course) i executioner striked him, placated, then pulverized him, but by that time he'd KB'd me 90 feet and was wailing on me, took me down in about 3 hits.
EDIT: was a lone boss btw, solo paper mission.
Well, you certainly havn't got the strongest possible build there!
You nead the Tactical Training powers and Manuovers for defense, and you need to take only the heavy hitting melee attacks, Bash will just get you killed. Instead you need to use the ranged attacks: your best defense is vs ranged attacks, so stay out of melee as much as possible.
This is one of the problems with the current implementation, your best attacks appear to be melee, but you best defense is vs ranged.
I really should do something about this signature.
i thought crabs were ranged? so how the hell am i supposed to kill stuff? -.- and bash is a good compliment to shatter and pulverize :O
i guess i'll concentrate on taking the defense
EDIT: died a 2nd time 
I looked at a Bane build and as an AR player with munnitions I can see the following making me survivable and useful for teams in pve:
Maneuvers.
Cloak device
Surveillance
Wide Are Web grenade.
Venom Grenade
Frag grenade
Web Cocoon.
Reinforcements
Placate (rarely needed)
Wait I am building a wolf spider ain't I? XD
*back to the drawing board*
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Ok, here is a build up to 50:
1) Mace Beam
1) Bane Spider Armor Upgrade
2) Wolf Spider Armor
4) Combat Training: Defensive
6) Hasten
8) Build Up
10) Tactical Training: Maneuvers
12) Hurdle
14) Superspeed
16) Pulverise
18) Shatter
20) Health
22) Stamina
24) Cloaking Device
26) Placate
28) Surveillance
30) Poisonous Ray
32) Tactical Training: Assault
35) Mental Training
38) Call Reinforcements
41) Crowd Control
44) Web Cocoon
47) Mace Beam Blast
49) Tactical Training: Leadership
Edit: extended to 50, made a correction
I really should do something about this signature.
I played a Bane Spider and he was cool, however, I have to agree with what some people have said above: they can't solo very well. Thing is, the Devs want us to group, but they have to bear in mind that not everyone wants to team. I think they realised that when they f**ked up HEATs. Overall, I think the VEATs should have the Leadership: <insert training of some form here> replaced with other powers so that VEATs arent as team-dependent and if I wanted Leadership Powers, they're available at Lv6 anyway. I think its a poor job IMO, porting over powers like that. It's a Pool Power. It should stay a Pool Power.
That's my two cents.
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Banes mitigation AND damage was associated with their 20 second placate, now that has been "standardised" and as such leaves banes with a gaping hole in both mitigation and damage. I have level 50s Veats in all configurations (closed beta bumps) and the bane is great fun but lags significantly behind the versatility of fortunatas, the fun of the blasterscrappermind that is Crab spiders and my unkillable NW which runs 54% def to everything minimum
I said this in another thread, banes are like a mace/energy aura stalker without AS, real crits, an end recovery power or a god mode, its currently the veats lame duck, expect something to change IMO
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Ok, here is a build up to 50:
1) Mace Beam
1) Bane Spider Armor Upgrade
2) Wolf Spider Armor
4) Combat Training: Defensive
6) Hasten
8) Build Up
10) Tactical Training: Maneuvers
12) Hurdle
14) Superspeed
16) Pulverise
18) Shatter
20) Health
22) Stamina
24) Cloaking Device
26) Placate
28) Surveillance
30) Poisonous Ray
32) Tactical Training: Assault
35) Mental Training
38) Call Reinforcements
41) Crowd Control
44) Web Cocoon
47) Mace Beam Blast
49) Tactical Training: Leadership
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1 attack untill level 16 GTFO! Your building an offencive AT not a Tank!
i agree with most of your power pics but your order is well off mate!
Like whats the point in BU with only 1 attack?
You have a very one track mind, sometimes the best defence is a good offence. Being able to stand there getting hit dont mean toss if you cant kill them
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Like whats the point in BU with only 1 attack?
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Respec into it after 24?
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Yup, I was building on the assumption that I couldn't be a bane spider below level 24, when I have 3 attacks, plus Hasten to recycle them faster.
If I am exemplared below level 18, well I have my VR attacks to fall back on.
I really should do something about this signature.
Oh, and since the have fixed the redraw on Mace Mastery, I have come up with this varient, which should have an easier time soloing EBs at high level, since you can tag team pets:
1) Mace Beam
1) Bane Spider Armor Upgrade
2) Wolf Spider Armor
4) Combat Training: Defensive
6) Hasten
8) Build Up
10) Tactical Training: Maneuvers
12) Poisonous Ray
14) Superspeed
16) Pulverise
18) Shatter
20) Swift
22) Health
24) Cloaking Device
26) Stamina
28) Surveillance
30) Placate
32) Crowd Control
35) Mental Training
38) Call Reinforcements
41) Web Envelope (MM)
44) Disruptor Blast (MM)
47) Summon Blaster (MM)
49) Tactical Training: Assault
Edit: pushed Poisonous Ray back to level twelve to make exemplaring easier.
I really should do something about this signature.
I would get a bread and butter attack chain, then hasten and then build up on an offensive build.
I may try an offensive build brb.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
The thing is, if you get your full attack chain early on, you pretty much have to take Bash, and Bash nulifies Combat Training: Defensive, since it will keep you in melee range.
Unless you plan on spending most of your life exemplared it is better to fill out your attack chain with the later more powerful attacks.
I really should do something about this signature.
On most veats, most definately on a bane spider (as they seem to be lacking the most in teams, and solo), I would heavily consider stacking Assault with the power pool version, so that you have a high damage buff to you and your team, increasing at least team efficiency. If I stack nothing else on my VEAT it will be Assault, sod the end... lol
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
Well you could just get all the leadership powers, Cloaking Device and the Medicine Pool and play a buff bot.
I would probably go for a fortunata if I wanted that stile of play though.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Compare Crab spiders. Team buffs: equal. Team damage: far superior because of aoes, suvivability: far superior. What team would want a bane spider when a crab spider was available?
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AoE is not always superior to single targets especially when the AT has very little in the way of damage mitigation
Yes in a super VEAT team a crab might kill more due to AoE kill steals but in the average team (which yes in a month or so after i12 will start happening again) both spiders will be just as potent as the other
Crabs with there AoE and more pets will do alot of wide spread damage (and thus take alot of aggro which leads to the we need healer on team line) or Bane spider who will have ALOT less damage and placate as a damage increaser/escape too. with the less but just as strong pets its gunna be alright for banes.
Are you the type of person who sits and decides you need a ranged damage x2 one debuffer one healer one meatsheild ect per team?
because that kinda thought process is not only unfair (to the ATs you reject) but is also completely unfounded
ppl said stalkers couldent do MoRSF because they bring nothing to the table, I did it. ppl said HEATs cant PvP sufficently. i got all the PvP badges with my PB.
the list can go on.
What works on paper does not always work in practice.