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The bane is somewhat squishy, and more than often needs to be close to the enemy. A very small boost to resist, so that people don't feel compelled to take tough and weave, which is madness with all the stuff you got to drop then, would not go amiss.
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Lets consider something about what Sitriel said about tankers not always being able to competently solo Invincible...this is true, tanks do have weaknesses, and I can see some finding certain missions difficult. Then consider that for some people Firetanks "need" tough and leap pool and fitness, and for some people Invulns need Tough and Weave, for some, their stone tank is never out of granite etc... I disagree with that just like I disagree with Banes strictly being a melee character, with no control powers and that they have to be in melee and serve one expectation and therefore fight pool is also needed. What a bane is designed to be about is with the Devs and what your bane is designed to be about is with you. Ofc if you want more from your character in an area, whilst sodding all other avenues and then dipping into power pools is to be expected as is the use of insps is to be expected. Some characters are meant to be more for teams also, by design..just look at empathy. In a way I hope there is a buff as buffs are always good but I am not so quick to see a madness.
Looking for starting titles on Paragonwiki like; Commando (name); Scout (name); Mistress (Name); Huntsman (Name); Operative (Name); Executioner (Name); Webmaster (Name) etc; I stumbled across what the in game npc Banes do:
This one is what I think most people rather have except for web grenade which would help keep enemies kited:
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Bane Spider Scout
Taken from the ranks of the Wolf Spiders, Bane Spider Scouts are given specialized covert operations training. They are elite spies used by Lord Recluse to monitor activities both in Rogue Isles and Beyond.
Powers
Web Grenade (Ranged, No Damage) Foe Immobilize, -Fly, -Recharge
You have been caught in a web. You cannot move or fly and your attack speed is reduced.
Mace Beam Ranged, Moderate Damage (Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback
The Nulifier Mace is capable of firing a tremendous bolt of Force from the end of it. Arachnos Troopers call this the Power Blast. The Arbiters who invented it scoff at this simple term.
Mace Beam Volley Ranged, Moderate Damage (Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback
The Nullifier Mace is capable of firing a tremendous bolt of Force from the end of it. Arachnos Troopers call this the Power Blast. The Arbiters who invented it scoff at this simple term.
Poisonous Ray (Ranged), Damage over Time, Toxic, Foe -Defense
You have been poisoned and your Defense has been reduced.
Bash Melee, Moderate Damage, Smash, Damage over Time, Poison, Foe Disorient
You perform a Bashing attack with your mace that deals moderate damage, and can sometimes Disorient your opponent.
Pulverize Melee, High Damage, Smash, Damage over Time, Poison, Foe Disorient
You attempt to Pulverize your opponent. This attack is slower than Bash but causes more damage. It also has a chance of Disorienting your opponent for a brief time.
Clobber Melee, Minor Damage, Smash, Damage over Time, Poison, Foe Disorient
You Clobber your foe's head in order to disorient him. This attack does little damage on its own, but can leave most opponents disoriented for a very long time.
Shatter Melee, Extreme Damage, Smash, Damage over Time, Poison, Foe Knockback
You attempt to Shatter the bones of your opponent by striking them with all your might. This attack will deal great damage and can knock foes back a great ways. The power of this attack can actually extend a short distance through multiple foes.
Hide Self, Toggle, +Stealth, +Defense
Hide makes you almost impossible to detect. When properly hidden, a stalker can pull off Critical hits with his attacks, and even land a massive "Assasin's Strike" with an assassins power.. When you attack or are damaged while using this power, you'll be discovered. Even if discovered, you are hard to see and retain some bonus to Defense. Unlike most Stealth powers, Hide can be used at the same time as other Concealment powers, giving you even greater Stealth capability. Very low Endurance cost.
Placate Placate
Allows you to trick a foe into no longer attacking you. A successful Placate will also hide you. This hide is very brief, and offers no defense bonus, but it will allow you to deliver a critical hit or an Assassin's Strike. However, if you attack a placated foe, he will be able to attack you back.
??? +Perception
Bane Spider Scouts can see through Stealth and Invisibility.
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And this one can hold and kite when necessary:
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Bane Spider Executioner
Only the most trusted Arachnos agents are allowed to lead the Bane Spiders. An agent must be ruthless and efficient to become one of Lord Recluse's personal guardsmen. It is a great honor to be promoted to the position of a Bane Spider Executioner.
Powers
Wide Area Web Grenade (Ranged, No damage) Foe: Immobilize, -Fly, -Recharge
You have been caught in a web. You cannot move or fly and your attack speed is reduced.
Cocoon Ranged, No damage, Foe Hold
Envelopes the target in a cocoon of webs. They are held helpless and unable to act.
Mace Beam Volley Ranged, Cone, Moderate Damage (Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback
The Nullifier Mace is capable of firing a tremendous bolt of force from the end of it. Arachnos Troopers call this the Power Blast. The Arbiters who invented it scoff at this simple term.
Mace Beam Blast Ranged, Area of Effect, High Damage (Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback
The Nullifier Mace is capable of firing a tremendous bolt of force from the end of it. Arachnos Troopers call this the Power Blast. The Arbiters who invented it scoff at this simple term.
Poisonous Ray Burst Ranged, Damage over Time (Poison), Foe -Defense
You have been poisoned and your defense has been reduced.
Bash Disorient, Damage over Time (Poison)
You have been disoriented and poisoned.
Pulverize Disorient, Damage over Time (Poison)
You have been disoriented and poisoned.
Clobber Disorient, Damage over Time (Poison)
You have been disoriented and poisoned.
Whirling Mace Disorient, Damage over Time (Poison)
You have been disoriented and poisoned.
Crowd Control Damage over Time (Poison)
You have been poisoned.
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Plenty of ranged attacks and secondary effects to give them survivability I thought and a discrepancy with what people imagine Banes to have...ie no control and just damage but still buffs maybe in order because its a AT versus the whole of the game now.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I disagree with Banes strictly being a melee character,
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We are not saying "banes are strictly a melee character".
However, thier highest damage and fastest attacks are melee.
If you focus on ranged attacks you will be much safer. However your damage will be much worse. Ironically, you still wont be as safe as a Widow.
Comparing to NPC bane spiders is meaningless. NPC bosses have far more hp, and a much higher damage multiplyer.
And Wide Area Web Genade is not a PC bane spider power. The chance of disorentate on Bash is only 10%, Pulverise 20% and Shatter 30%, it is mag 2, so is only likely to stun a minion. PC banes also do not get Nullifer Mace, Clobber, or Whirling Mace. I.e. contol options available to bane spiders are minimal, less even than a Mace tanker.
There are a great many ways to build a Bane spider.
1) You can build as a melee fighter but a Night Widow will do it better
2) You can build as a ranged fighter but a crab spider or fortunata will do it better
3) You can build as a pet master but a crab spider will do it better
4) You can build as a debuffer but a crab spider will do it better
5) You can build as a buffer but the 3 other SoA will be equally good
I really should do something about this signature.
Okay so we need to know what makes the Bane special in its own unique way. Apart from rolling a Bane just to play one, why play one?
Surveillance got me interested.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Banes need buffing..end of. My Bane is currently level 34.
1) In CERTAIN teams they are OK, not great, but they hold their own. However without external buffs, they suffer. Especially, as to be considered effective as a 'high-imapct' toon, you need to be focussing on bosses/lieuts=high accuracy/high damage aggro.
Don't get me wrong, with these external buffs, it's great fun, but i had the misfortune of playing in a team where that was not the case, and a slow recharging placate/hide didn't cut it, and I was reduced to piddly blasting, or 'finishing off' an almost dead boss.
It is a real shame, for when a built up crowd control fires off from hide, you can be an effective AoE killer too.
2) Soloing, as previously mentioned, is very painful. I would swap surveillance and web cocoon for decent def toggles.
3) PvP'ing - well an invul scrapper without tactics was able to see through my hide easily enough in sirens, and he was kind enough to participate in a little test. He stood still whilst another bane hit him with surveillance at the same time as I fired off mines (-40%resistance iirc?). Before this wore off (20secs):
I hit him with BU+executioner strike - placate+stealth strike (both hit) and his health bar hardly flinched :O. I am going to test this further, but something is REALLY broken here.
What has annoyed me, is the one saving grace I initially perceived, was unlike Assassin Strike, you didn't need the target to stand still for a sec, indeed, the executioner strike even has a small range. However if the pvp damage is THAT pitiful, it won't really matter. It just relates to the Bane spider being relegated in PvP to the stauts of 'Poor mans EM/SR'
Surveillance could be better with a faster recharge (or even as a toggle 
)
Web Cocoon is a nice addition, but as both soldiers can get access to Web Envelope in patron powers, it gives away it's golden egg.
Overall, I think MOST powersets in this game have something that makes them stand out, giving you that feeling of being 'super-powered'. Currently, I have been really struggling to find ANYTHING about playing a bane to give me that.
I rate your reply as I see its expressing in game experiences more acutely.
Banes are to us say both Scouts and Executioners and need to feel good as one yet ideally not step on stalkers toes and to be as good as the other VEATs.
Stalkers are now buffed from being in teams but in an inverse ways "perhaps" Banes need to be buffed; because they are scouts; whilst alone; they should have more survivability. Perhaps even Surveillance should be an aoe debuff with only combat attributing selected target.
Sounds right to me.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I don't care about stalkers, i agree to banes being buffed though, good going on everything else too.
Make their placate the same recharge as before the "nerf" and make in unenhancable?
@Jay Leon Hart
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