In teams; in the early levels, say pre 24, without any support except from other fellow VEATs, there is nothing wrong....As long as people in the team are stacking maneuvers. When your not scratching each others backs or someones not scratching yours, your weak.
Enough maneuvers stacked can mean turn other defense toggles off as your at the defense cap, save endurance and make as many mistakes as you like.
If everyone had maneuvers and stacked them, whatever fun power they fancied would be fine and however they all played wouldn't matter too much as long as they are close together.
I find it encourages teaming. I think teaming and teamwork is pretty much emphasized in the powersets.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
IMO and AT that only performs in teams is as broken as an AT that is only effective solo (i.e. stalkers). In this case, Banes don't just need to team, they need to team with a specific AT, i.e. more SoA. Doubly broken.
Banes (and all pre 24 soldiers) need a defensive buff, which chould be done by buffing Wolf Spider Armor, as I suggest in the training room thread.
Another option would be to buff the non-suppressing melee and aoe defense in Cloaking Device, so as to better mesh with Combat Training: Defensive.
It's also worth mentioning that Banes got a major nerf to Placate in the latest patch in the US, which makes them even more in need of a defensive buff.
I really should do something about this signature.
How ATs are designed to play and how they get to play are two different things. When someone isn't playing by design the game must be broke. To play to everyones design we'd have one AT that could do everything. With Banes I see a variety of types that can be made. Each type is better suited to different people, with different playstyles and who play in different team make ups. Sometimes you have to think. On route to 50 you won't get it perfectly right. That don't matter. At 50 most people still have something to learn and thats a good thing.
Open Beta has been open a couple of days to us and just like I see level 50 tanks still with something to learn, I more than expect new banes to be quietly adjusting.
As a bugged Night Widow atm I can do what the hell I like as a player, making whatever mistakes. The only "grave" mistake I can make is "detoggle". Teaming with anyone I have no problems but people teaming with me can easily have but through no fault of mine. I don't play their characters. I don't make their decisions. Sure somehow it'll become my fault they are getting killed but if I am running maneuvers and they aren't, they are making a rod for their own backs.
I don't expect perfect play on villains. I barely expect it. I rather see a pillage through a village with people learning to get and handle their own aggro unless say a Brute or Dominator is about.
One can spend too much time trying to pass an inspiration to people in a team who could of all helped provide themselves and each other with more defense.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
/e clap
Well said, Shannon! I was planning to role a Bane in the Live version but this isn't my place to comment, all my VEAT's and toons involving anything new are only lvl 6. I don't wanna ruin all the fun just yet 
I hope Banes are fun cos that Arachnos Mace is whats tempting me to make a Bane and not a normal Wolf Spider 
the placate got made to recharge 60 seconds, which hugely takes away from their survivability, are they just [censored] stalkers now? their damage is weak compared in pvp compared to the others.
I saw in a US forum post that a energy/WP brute got taken down by every class except bane. Night widows and fortunatas could stop his regen and detoggle him, crabs could overpower him with longfang channelgun and suppression, but banes could wail on him with nothing happening.
I hope they get a massive upgrade before live.
[ QUOTE ]
With Banes I see a variety of types that can be made. Each type is better suited to different people, with different playstyles and who play in different team make ups. Sometimes you have to think
[/ QUOTE ]
The trouble is, with Banes, atm there is only one play style that works, and that is to team up with at least 4 other Arachnos soldiers so you can hit the def soft cap.
This is not true of any of the other 3 SoA, which work fine with a variety of builds and play styles.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With Banes I see a variety of types that can be made. Each type is better suited to different people, with different playstyles and who play in different team make ups. Sometimes you have to think
[/ QUOTE ]
The trouble is, with Banes, atm there is only one play style that works, and that is to team up with at least 4 other Arachnos soldiers so you can hit the def soft cap.
This is not true of any of the other 3 SoA, which work fine with a variety of builds and play styles.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont know which bane your looking at but all i see is awesomeness
how are they weaker than crabs?
Crabs get a toggle res power and a self heal
Banes get a hide power (with the def!) and a +hp move earlier. they get placate which the can get executioner strikes and crits from also a decent hold
crabs get some weak [censored] spiders at -2 levels.
banes get build up which has use
crabs get aim.... and with all the +acc its completly redundant.
yea so crabs probably will be in melee more (arguable) i dont see how there servivablity is less than other ATs (well fortuana has the controlls so thats obvious)
Imo banes will be killing enemies faster than crabs with less aggro (or atleast the same speed but still with less aggro)
banes are squishy and can't tank or take aggro.
You mean apart from a self heal, over twice as much resistance, and not having to go into melee range to fight?!
And don't underestimate the effect of having 5 or 6 pets when combined with the Tactical Training toggles.
And Aim = +50% damage.
Here are the figures, assuming all shields taken, and no slotting.
Bane:
Resistance: +10.5% S/L, 9.5% Psi, 7.5% rest
Def: +21.25% ranged, +13.75% rest
Mez prot: mag 6
+hp: 20%
Crab:
Resistance: +21% S/L, +4% Psi, 25% rest
Def: +17.5% ranged, +10% rest
Mez prot: mag 14.3
+hp: 40%
Self Heal
I really should do something about this signature.
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In this case, Banes don't just need to team, they need to team with a specific AT, i.e. more SoA. Doubly broken.
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I'd been hoping that forcing people into big teams was one of the apparent "lessons" learned from HEATs 
.
That an AT is forced into a specific team is even worse.
I'm not even sure what the point is in the route in all these apparent Leadership powers if the result is going to be heavy nerfing because of the possibility of SOA "superteams".
It's no suprise that people are going to want to team SOAs together. Were superteams such an express concern, why the SOA Leadership powers were even created, I don't know.
[ QUOTE ]
Bane:
Resistance: +10.5% S/L, 9.5% Psi, 7.5% rest
Def: +21.25% ranged, +13.75% rest
Mez prot: mag 6
+hp: 20%
Crab:
Resistance: +21% S/L, +4% Psi, 25% rest
Def: +17.5% ranged, +10% rest
Mez prot: mag 14.3
+hp: 40%
Self Heal
[/ QUOTE ]
Woah.. owned.
@MidnightGuard - on Union you may know me as:
Mr. Vile - Electroman X - Zenodorus - Battler
Naga Knight - Stinkspitter
just look on the US forums, there's just too much being said there for me to reiterate here.
http://boards.cityofvillains.com/pos...rd=Issue10open
and
http://boards.cityofvillains.com/pos...ers&page=3
Another irony, Banes are highly dependent on teams for suvival, but Banes focus heavily on single target damage, and teams fight large spawns where aoe damage is far more effective.
Wheras Crabs focus on aoe damage, making them much more desirable in teams, but they are much less dependant on teams for defense.
I really should do something about this signature.
u see? that's why they suck. If ANYTHING is made SOLELY for teams, please gtfo. I want to be able to solo at 50, seeing how i perform on my own.
Anyone who needs 7 other people for him to perform effectively sucks, at any game.
Here are some ajustments I suggested in another thread:
Wolf Spider Armour. Increas S/L res to 9%. Remove psi resistance.
Reasoning: Buffs wolf and bane spiders. Should make level 1-24 less of a slog. 3% buffs arn't worth slotting, but 9% buffs are. 2% psi resist is worthless. Gives Crab spiders reason to take this power as well as Crab Spider Upgrade.
Crab Spider Armor Upgrade: Remove S/L/Psi resistance. Add 9% Fire/Cold/NRG/Neg/Tox. Add mag 2 KB protection (slottable like new Acro but 100%).
Reasons: Should complement rather than replace Wolf Spider Armor more. This is an upgrade to protect you from a greater range of threats. All that heavy crab armor should make you harder to knock back.
Fortification: Reduce F/C/NRG/Neg/Tox resistance to 15%.
Reason: To balance changes to other armours.
Other powers unchanged.
This would give:
Bane:
Resistance: +16.5% S/L, 7.5% rest
Def: +21.25% ranged, +13.75% rest
Mez prot: mag 6
+hp: 20%
Crab:
Resistance: +24% S/L, +0% Psi, 24% rest
Def: +17.5% ranged, +10% rest
Mez prot: mag 14.3
+hp: 40%
Self Heal
I really should do something about this signature.
that's lookin better, but remember banes = shock troopers.
Their job is to get in, lay the smackdown and fall back to ranged attacks, they can't train huge gangs of enemies.
As an alternative suggestion, they could replace Web Cocoon with Foresight (widow power) at level 35. Web Cocoon could go in the PPP.
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
Here are some ajustments I suggested in another thread:
Wolf Spider Armour. Increas S/L res to 9%. Remove psi resistance.
Reasoning: Buffs wolf and bane spiders. Should make level 1-24 less of a slog. 3% buffs arn't worth slotting, but 9% buffs are. 2% psi resist is worthless. Gives Crab spiders reason to take this power as well as Crab Spider Upgrade.
Crab Spider Armor Upgrade: Remove S/L/Psi resistance. Add 9% Fire/Cold/NRG/Neg/Tox. Add mag 2 KB protection (slottable like new Acro but 100%).
Reasons: Should complement rather than replace Wolf Spider Armor more. This is an upgrade to protect you from a greater range of threats. All that heavy crab armor should make you harder to knock back.
Fortification: Reduce F/C/NRG/Neg/Tox resistance to 15%.
Reason: To balance changes to other armours.
Other powers unchanged.
This would give:
Bane:
Resistance: +16.5% S/L, 7.5% rest
Def: +21.25% ranged, +13.75% rest
Mez prot: mag 6
+hp: 20%
Crab:
Resistance: +24% S/L, +0% Psi, 24% rest
Def: +17.5% ranged, +10% rest
Mez prot: mag 14.3
+hp: 40%
Self Heal
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ummm no
for all the reasons Syracuse stated
You mean: Banes should suck without a team because Syracuse hates people who solo?
I don't think that is a good reason. +6% S/L resistance breaks what exactly?
I really should do something about this signature.
Agree praf, syracause can get a life and learn to play, he's probably just a leecher who likes people doing the worlk for him when he sits back and does nothing.
Again i say, if positron and castle would stop being cowards, man up to the players and say 'shut the [censored] up, it's our game and we'll do what we damnwell please'
and make bane spiders and all VEATs a hell of alot more competent solo, they'll probably all suck.
The "Learn to Play" bit is key. Not just from anyone but from anyone who teams with you.
Currently Night Widows are bugged. I personally should really be getting mullered every I dunno..group.
In an all VEAT team it really pays for people to stick together stacking maneuvers for both widow and bane in the early levels.
In mixed teams, which is something thats not really seen on Test atm you will get your shields from corrupters, better damage mitigation of dominators, damage redirected by brutes etc etc.
As a dominator, corrupter, stalker or brute coming to a VEAT team stacked maneuvers will bring omgness.
As a VEAT coming to a mixed team there should be benefits.
Soloing, well thats something else and for a team set probably better avoided. I soloed a Bane for a little while and thought "is this all I got?" just getting to level 2. XD
I am currently doing Night Widow and when the bug is removed would hope that either everyone is buffing each other in teams or simply "trying" to do their job.
I don't get the american forums. I have played on US servers and they are generally no better "pats europe on the back". I rather read what the Devs say.
Note to Banes: Maneuvers 15% Def!
I'd damn well wanna play in a group of 3 and be hunting like a Velociraptors from Jurrasik Park!
I can't wait until Night Widow gets fixed so I can then see if I have problems. Somehow I think Banes would be generally more enjoyable in the later levels in comparison to Night Widows.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I've been playing my night widow without the godmode shield on using a rough design that i was thinking for live i12 - and i have to say its amazing. Your so squishy - but generally are just so very powerful. With careful design you can happily drag a fight out quite long. Noting though that mine has no ranged attacks atm or decent aoe and he's 28. But, he's a great alpha aggro taker for a big bunch of crab spiders 
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The "Learn to Play" bit is key.
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Numbers > Lean to play.
Compare Crab spiders. Team buffs: equal. Team damage: far superior because of aoes, suvivability: far superior. What team would want a bane spider when a crab spider was available?
Combare Night Widows: Team buffs: superior (Mind Link, Vengence), damage: superior (because of placate nerf), suvivability: superior (Elude). What team would want a Bane if a Night Widow was available?
All this is assuming optimum builds and skilled play of course, and a skilled player with anything is greater than a rubbish player with anything. However, when getting into teams is an issue information about skill isn't available, so they have to make decisions based on numbers. And the numbers say Banes are inferior.
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Note to Banes: Maneuvers 15% Def!
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Exactly the same as it is for crabs and widows. Doesn't excatly even the balance does it?
I really should do something about this signature.
Praf i can see ur smart and good at number crunching in this game, can u tell me how Banes do compare to everything in solo?
like i said, i love brutes and therefore love to be strong and bulldoze when soloing. I reslotted my bane for 30 and the damage is good, and with 10 second placate i CAN hold a candle to lieutenants and bosses. Perfectly slotted at 50 with IO's who can say.
thanks in advance.
Alot of my friends, as well as me have been noticing, we're getting battered on every difficulty above tenacious.
Now please don't start with the 'thats cos u suck' talk, but i find banes, and i'm sure if u read the topics on the US forums, have been unfairly nerfed in their placate, and their survivability against hard hitting mobs has been diminished.
I was wondering if anyone could help me out with ideas on how to play them, their slotting because i heard u vcan get 45% res on all, and stuff like that.
I really enjoy playing them, but on villainous it isn't much fun.