Mighty_EU

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Now that's out of the way, anybody else got thoughts on this?

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Personally, not really. But from a very top level view I cant help but think of comparisons to another restrictive and flawed AT and think, [censored], like Stalkers, are there still going to be "Fix Bane Spider" threads in 2 years time?

Right now the LAST thing I'm going to want to roll in i12 is a Bane Spider, and probably even in the following 24 months, because I just cba to wait for the comparable time span for the AT to get made remotely "fixed".

VEATs have certain restrictive qualities about them that you either buy into or you don't. Part of the attraction is the inherent "cool" factor in style, appearance and gameply. But some of these restrictive qualities, the costume criteria, and the play functionality are starting to get, over time and in some cases SOOOOOOOOO increasingly restrictive that I'm starting to buy right OUT of the desire to wanting to play one at all.

SOAs are starting to feel like a great concept excercised in a clunky manner that is starting to fall part at the joints.

I'm sure my comments are innappropriate and unfounded since I'm not on test playtesting the things all the way through to 50. And hey, I will be very happy to be very wrong. But like I said, from a top level view, looking ahead into i12, these things really are starting to seem like an excercise in diminishing fun and diminishing reward.

Just IMO OFC.

Basically, despite the occuring drama in the thread, there is a point made by Praf that I entirely agree with:

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IMO and AT that only performs in teams is as broken as an AT that is only effective solo (i.e. stalkers). In this case, Banes don't just need to team, they need to team with a specific AT, i.e. more SoA. Doubly broken.

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I won't be rolling one or playing one at any time those conditions apply.

Aha, good call that man. It has indeed been amalgamated by Ouroboros into the "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute" arc.

When I take the arc it's reporting the first mission to be "Plant Bombs In Arachnos Base" which is a different mission, yet when I accepted the task, it gave me the needed "Defeat All Arachnos Personnel" mission.

Badge and accolade tucked safely under arm. Thanks !

With the introduction of Ouroboros I realised I could team a hell of a lot more without getting obssesively paranoid about outlevelling certain arcs and badges I enjoyed and/or wanted to play.

It wasn't until I checked, having teaming will nilly all over the place to 50 that I found that the Paragon Of Vice badge mission is no where to be found in the Pillar of Ice and Flame .

I'd very much appreciate it if anyone aqquires the mission if they could let me know and help me get the badge.

I'm contactable @mighty'.

Thanks very much .

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Agreed, Mighty. On more mature consideration, I think FFMs post to the effect that a registered hero would be investigated under the same restrictions as any police officer is probably the best one to go for as an assumption. And could also offer all sorts of fun "I'm waiting for my hearing" plots, too.

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Definitely and it also helps to flesh out the idea of supergroup organisations as real entities with, more than likely for the large scale, and high powered groups, vast support structures such as huge legal teams. PR agents, clerical and administravtive staff etc etc.

I think it's pretty fun bringing meat and bones to things that often seem very standalone in the game environment .

I'm really hooked on thinking about the counter side and the kind of criminal defence firms that get people like Doc Vahz off the hook, released working on his Vahz plague plot YET AGAIN! Just in terms for accounting and fudging over the repeated instances of story arcs and TFs that multiple characters and players engage in and thinking about the whole "I arrested Doc Vahzilok today", "Pffft. I've arrested him 3 times now, he still gets off" thing .

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I'm not saying that Statesman should or would use deadly force if Mr A. Random Hellion pulls a gun on him, simply that the law will make provision to cover the potential circumstances if he does. If he decides to kill Mr A. Random Hellion, then he has to suffer the consequences of his actions, but would any sentence pronounced on him be adjusted if it turns out the Hellion had Anti-Statesman ammo in his gun?

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The consequence would be an investigation OFC, as mentioned.

Probably involving a hordish legal team of lawyers and such types that I'm guessing an organisation such as the FP will have in their employ to cover the endless law suits they are no doubt subjected to .

Were the findings of said investigation to determine that the deceased Hellion's weapon was full of anti-Statesman Kyrptonite, then I've no doubt that ultimately Statesman's use of deadly force was the only available recourse available to him as his life was directly endangered?

I can see the point you are making Shadowe in trying to ascertain what the legal standing and result of such an incident would be.

While it is appropriate in this case that Statesman's use of deadly force could be resolved as appropriate, it's would not be appropriate that Statesman would then cavort about using deadly force proactively under a proactive "what if" defence.

A bit more back to assumption about lore and NPCS, since the Malta group are just about the only group so far to reasonably create an experimental weapon capable of nullifying Well Of Furies magintude power, I would think it unlikely in lore terms that the lowly Hellions are a faction that would realistically achieve, or aqquire and get their hands on or present such a potent threat.
Realistic assumption and appropriate speculation on potential enemy "threat" makes for better speculation and assumption to appropriate levels of force in subduing that threat.

Of course, contrary to my own point, it's generally unlikely that Statesman finds himself often involved in interceding in lowly Hellion crime activities .

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...there's no way he could claim he believed his life to be threatened unless he had prior knowledge of whatever secret weapon this was.

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Besides, EVERY secret weapon is fundamentally flawed in that it NEVER kills instantly and it's effect is ALWAYS somehow reverseable !

CURSES! Foiled again !

Agreed. Another great thread that really gets it's teeth into the gaming world of CoX.

I'd be half tempted to roll a Criminal Defence lawyer character and have a hell of a lot of fun with this, had I the time and resource to do so, and had I even 1/2 an ounce of decent knowledge of US Criminal Law for a foundation .

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...if the force being used by the criminal would be deadly to a normal human being, then the use of deadly force in dealing with them may be justified.

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If that force being put to use by the criminal is directed against a normal human being.

Statesman punching the head off a Hellion point a gun at him is not appropriate use of deadly force at all.

In fact, Statesman punching the head of a Hellion pointing a gun at a civilian isn't appropriate use of deadly force either. At his security level and considering his registered abilities there's a lot of assumption you could make that Statesman should certainly be able to disarm and subude a Hellion without use of any deadly force at all.

That might be a very different story for a security level 5 Katana Scrapper however.

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No licence is needed to do it (Otherwise that'd undercut the original spirit of the law!) and registering is more like reserving your name and listing your abilities, so that people can't imitate you or pinch your name

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No, an FSBA license is need to operate under the registration act.

Getting your name as a registered trademark etc, and your identity and publicity in the public domain, well that's what you'd go get a PR agent for .

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2. We can't hurt NPC's

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That's just an arbitrary game mechanic.

I can't imagine that the profliferaton of Novaing, Infernoing, Thunderous Blasting and Full Autoing costumed crime fighters would truly occur without the risk and inevitability of collateral damage and casualties .

Still the FSBA certainly do seem to drag their feet over such matters. The Sirens Call event was simply attributed to "the tragic consequence of a hero’s inability to harness his own powers". And although Sunburst had apparently "shown recklessness in the past, resulting in collateral damage on numerous occasions" and "The Siren’s Call event proved to be the fateful culmination of his disregard for proper protocol” the FSBA certainly didn't and doesn't seem to do that much to regulate or prevent such incidents.

I'm not sure the FSBA specifically know how to regulate the Registration act .

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Yeah, those are the lines I'm thinking along. If Recluse will trade with the Rikti and encourage them to continue their war on Paragon City, I think he'd up for taking advantage of cross-dimensional troops. I doubt, however, he'd offer them the same level of patience as his "proper" servants.

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It's more usual that alternate, cross-universe versions of the same villainous entity do not tolerate each other at all and rarely go so far as to act under non-aggression pacts. Such agreements tend to go only so far as keeping your enemies "close". For as long as it suits you. Which is usually very breifly .

Nemesis certainly doesn't seem to regard cross reality counterparts in friendly, non aggressive terms.

Outside CoX, in Comic bookland, much of the same is true. Look at Kang.

I think were Recluse to become aware of an alternate version of himself, and an attached alternate version faction, he may well enter into the facade of a pact, but I would think this would be short lived and abruptly recinded at the slightest opportunity.

Variant "self" relationships and rivalries seem to brim with a lot more personal passion and competitive rivalry and of course it's so.

Whilst I can easily believe and I accept Recluse tolerates and established a beneficial relationship with an invading alien faction's ambassador, I just can't find myself so accepting of the idea he'd get into bed with "himself" so readily (oooeeeer!). I think it'd get to the tears before bed time situation very very quickly. I guess it's just personal reaction and interpretation of "lore" however.

Other than that, IMO there's only so much you can reasonably presume a cannon NPC character of such stature would do and limits to what you can speculate to the character behavior and process. Some of the very speculative stuff seems a little in the realms of... I dont know what the particular term is, but it seems a little on the dubious side flexing a major cannon character and faction to that extent.

Maybe I just don't like cross universe, multiverse stuff so much. It seems such a base common denominator in it's frequency and it rarely seems to be fleshed out or delivered to a satisfying extent.

But then I guess much of this is probably why I really don't roleplay because I really dislike certain major player characters which are NPC in an universe being used in a very speculative manner, that I guess honestly, I just don't personally like.

I'm abit bored with Praetorian Earth . I'm starting to get bored of the Shadow Shards. I'm even more bored of the Praetorian Earths and The Shadow Shards that are totally neglected of their own lore.
And I'm quite bit bored with the endless fruit of Statesman and Lord Recluse's loins. And the various multitude horde that are the Freedom Phalanx siblings.
The sheer volume of wonder tech and black projects that falls off the back of Crey trucks up is astounding. That Corporation must be a P&L nightmare.

Whilst OFC the character is written and defined by the creative team, until such time they direct otherwise, I personally have ideas of how that character's personality plays out to futher extents and I guess the key is more that I have preconcieved ideas to the limitations that to how I think the character will behave until it is written otherwise. So there's a lot of, "No I don't like that, I don't think X would act in that way at all".

I think NPC and canon stuff creates a very personal experience with readers/players/fans or whoever is experiencing it. Probably second only to players own creations which is why pushing that personal experience and relationship can, I guess, be received with dubious reaction.

People dont like their creations being "God-Modded"(?) and I don't think they like the cannon, story NPC story characters being God-Modded too speculatively much either.

Anyway, it's all pretty much rambling whilst I try to speculate exactly what it is about Lord Recluse allying with offworld, cross universe, multiverse versions of himself that I really just don't like .

But hey, that's the beauty of character creation. It doesn't have to go through me to get vetted .

Great thread though .

I probably err towards the original post a little in just the points in consideration towards the faction.
Whilst OFC I want to create individuality to my character, I'm having a lot of fun thinking about how to do it as a part and "member" of a defined faction with a lot of lore and story and conditions. I'm thinking more about how much of a power player, a schemer and a polictiking piece of spite my self serving, self interested character can be, and the mutli/inter factional rivalry, self serving environment of the Arachnos organistaion seems like a very fun and cool place to work that all out. I feel my character can certainly excercise it's own agenda and extra curricular activies around the expected role and duties of a Soldier Of Arachnos, and/or mole. Double crosses, within double crosses and ever spiralling agendas .

Fantastic hunt. Thanks to those that contributed their time & effort.

8 X Venomous (plus Gladiator), 8 X Heat Seeker badges and smiles all round.

Cheers !

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I can bring Independance Port on one of my MM's (Doctor Digitalis) and I need Brickstown on Master Zaprobo (who can also bring Peregrine if needed)

Also need Firebug on MZ so happy to chip in on all the Mayhem sessions!

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Fantastic.

I have PI ofc too. I will dig around the lowbies and see what else I can pick up.

I know I need Skyway and Kings. I can probably actually pick up Kings easily in time but will need some alt swapping shenanigans in the mish .

The best thing for Hero Slayer is nice, good and quick RSFs .

Unfortunately neither the Freedom Phalanx nor Infernal have quite enough Cars, Trucks, Newspaper stands, Fire Hydrants, or Payphones available to SMASH , and not quite the right exploration badges to steal .

Mayhem Mission Malarky Tuesday 20th May 8PM.

Hoping to collate enough of the Mayhem missions to make a nice run through them and collect a chunk of the badges that lead to the Invader and Force Of Nature accolades.

If everyone could bring their own "bank job" to contribute it should be a pretty fun and quick blast through spreading chaos through that wretched spandex city, Paragon .

Any alt Mayhem missions very welcome, and we can arrange logging out/back in and alt swapping for specific badges you might require.

Hope to see you there . Feel free to bring your own poison too .

Heh, that's pretty much one look I want but didn't really hope too much on. I think I'll wait and see if it makes it to live before jumping up & down with joy .

More hunting shenanigans...

This time it's Shivans for the Man (Woman) In Black badge, part of the Meglomaniac accolade requirements.

I'll run, grind & farm the Mender Silos' Shivan mission I currently have open. Should be a fairly simple and quick task with the easy and accessible volume of green blobs available .

Wednesday evening 14th May. 8 PM start at Ouroboros.

Hope to see you there .

*loads shotgun*

*fills hip flask*

Look forward to seeing you there guys. Will meet you outside Spider Tower just before 8 .

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Hi
Is there a level limit for this?
I would be interested but my highest Villain is L15, if this is ok I will try and make it to the Spider Tower. Do not know were in Grandville it is yet as I have not been there yet but would like to get the badge.

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If you'd like to join in, you are welcome.

I should however point out that Grandville is a level 40+ zone and very dangerous. It's difficult even for characters up to about level 45+ in some places.

I'm sure we can find you a boss to lackey you but it would probably still be a death (and debt filled) caper for you . It's only appropriate to say it would be your own responsibility, sorry .

If you're worried about missing out, you needn't be as I will run this again in the future on further alts and the flier badge will become more readily available with the new i12 event features I'm sure .

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In this case, Banes don't just need to team, they need to team with a specific AT, i.e. more SoA. Doubly broken.

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I'd been hoping that forcing people into big teams was one of the apparent "lessons" learned from HEATs .
That an AT is forced into a specific team is even worse.

I'm not even sure what the point is in the route in all these apparent Leadership powers if the result is going to be heavy nerfing because of the possibility of SOA "superteams".
It's no suprise that people are going to want to team SOAs together. Were superteams such an express concern, why the SOA Leadership powers were even created, I don't know.

What ho! Time to get some more trophies mounted!

Toxic Tarantula hunt in Grandville for the Venomous Badge.
Monday evening 12th May, starting at 8pm.

Covering the east and west best areas for these should give a good vantage point for the elusive Flier should it make a patrol during this time, so watch the skies!

Flier is a secondary hunt because it's pretty unreliable in it's 2-8 hour cycle, and plus with the event channels coming in i12 I think there will be better Flier results from that.

Post your interest in coming along to gather outside Spider Tower in time for 8pm. I'll start slinging invites off the list from who's there at 8 for a nice quick start.

Should be able to blast through Toxics nice and quickly with a full team .

See you there!

I found this user post on the US forum:

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I can't use (or at least, haven't seen any options to use) Arachnos costume pieces outside of the singular required slot. So if I want a guy in a trenchcoat and a fortunata helm guess what: Can't do it!
Worse, it appears I can't even have multiple uniforms! Maybe I want my Bane Spider to have Bane and Wolf costumes.
Can't do it! Blood widow and fortunata costume slots? No way.
Now, I'm not doom saying or knocking the AT. They're fun to play, and I got a spider up to lvl 10 with ease and enjoyed doing it. But I was really disappointed to have so many potential neat ideas that involved playing around with the Arachnos costume bits cut short by the devs. It was such a let down.
Please devs, make those pieces freely available to the VEATs!

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I think this stands as an explanation from JLove (Sexy Jay?):

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Q: Why can’t we miss match our VEAT costume with all the other costume options?

Short Answer: Won’t work together

Long Answer: Players on villain side have long asked for Villain Epic Archetypes (VEAT). And the way to appease the masses, we decided to give players and chance to look likes a WoldSpider. Then someone said why don’t you add the widows, oh and while you’re at it, add the Crab and Bane spiders too.

I gave it my best effort to fit all of these pieces into the regular costume creator but it just would not mesh well together. For example: the Crab spider chest thing breaks all the costume borders and clips into almost every other costume piece we have. Having this amount of clipping is unprofessional and just plain looks bad; also you the player, will and should demand better. The Crab/Bane/Wolf/Widow all were originally made to be NPC only, they were never intended to be intermixed in the costume creator like the Roman and Vanguard set is. NPCs that use the Huge/Male/Female as a base can break the player costume boarder rule.


Q: But isn’t there some stuff that will work in the regular costume creator.

Short Answer: Yep

Long Answer: Yep, but only a few. Let’s take the widow for example. Most of the widow stuff will work in the regular costume creator except the chest piece and high collar. So, if I put all the pieces that will work in the regular costume creator the player would then ask “Well this stuff got in there why not the other stuff?” It’s a slippery slope and the costume creator would get sloppy. So the VEAT has its own costume creator and the regular costume creator stays the same and never shall the two merge.


Q: Well then, why don’t you just port all the stuff that will work into the VEAT costume creator?

Short Answer: Shut up and look away

Long Answer: If I was to do this then we would basically have two costume creators. One regular costume creator and other one to accommodate for the VEAT costume pieces. Again, very sloppy and unprofessional.


Q: Why do you smell so awesome?

Short Answer: Hey, I though I told you to shut up

Long Answer: Luffa every nook and cranny everyday. Also for about a dollar more I buy Axe hygiene products, they really are the best. Kisses


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(thanks to Snow for the find).

So I guess having a Wolf/Bane/Crab without a helmet is totally off the cards . That's a really big dissapointment in my book .

Lack of the ability to have even an alternate armour costume seems dissapointing if true.

1 work uniform and 4 sets of Civvies I guess? Civvies with great big mechanical claws for Crabs ofc .

OFC I'll wait for such opportunity to see for myself, but I wondered if anyone's so far been able to try anything that would confirm or deny this?

At least Jay smells awesome.

Hey TG, do you have sources for this information? The simple reason is, out of all the conjecture and arguement, I'm actually finding these snippets interesting and would like to see such articles in their greater context or entireity . Pm or whatever would be really cool. Thanks mate.

Can you hit reply to the person/post you're addressing please .