The SoA. A plea. (Spoilers for the VEAT plot)
By
Big_Lunk_EU,
Posted on: 2008-05-10 17:13 in Roleplaying
yeah... cos that's what people do with PB/WS...
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yeah... cos that's what people do with PB/WS...
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Yeah... Tell that to the undead vampire nictus catgirl hero who kills other heroes.
Lol wut? 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
not to mention the catgirl that didn't really join but has a fragment but is the most powerful PB in the UNIVERSE...
or the one not really joined with a powerful mage... the list is so very long...
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not to mention the catgirl that didn't really join but has a fragment but is the most powerful PB in the UNIVERSE...
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Huh? Dude, I've explained Ellie's origin to you often enough, and you STILL get it wrong?
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Alrightey, I know this is going to be an unpopular thread, but I have something to ask...
...if you're going to roll a Soldier of Arachnos in issue 12, please, please, please, please, please respect the basic storyline behind them if you're going to use the powers ICly. That is to say you're a part of Arachnos (at least "officially"), you're only part of Project Destiny due to your own interference with the list (not that Kalinda and company know...), and that you're not a god-like spirit of the dead possessing a suit of Crab Spider armour to bring salvation to the Rogue Isles.
[/ QUOTE ]Don't tell me what to do 
But seriously (and more respectfullyless jokingly) I don't think it's right for anyone to tell anyone else how they should run their character. I already have a plan for one of mine which already fudges the story and I don't even know what the story is to begin with.
Let people have fun doing what makes them happy. Then when the shine wears off things will continue as they once did; just like Trenchcoats and Wings and Peacebringers before them.
Just so you know I have a PB who isn't a full-fledged PB and several toons who bear the Arachnos symbol who aren't part of Arachnos.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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not to mention the catgirl that didn't really join but has a fragment but is the most powerful PB in the UNIVERSE...
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Huh? Dude, I've explained Ellie's origin to you often enough, and you STILL get it wrong?
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I think he just likes mocking it, really.
Got to agree with Tyger.
Example, how hard is it really to actually steal a Crab Spider suit and use it for yourself.
Alot of the Arcs ive done ingame ive never done them IC, or even connected them loosely to my character. Aslong as there's a plausible and well thought out explanation as to why said character has Widow Claws, Crab Spider features and so forth, it's all good.
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Example, how hard is it really to actually steal a Crab Spider suit and use it for yourself.
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Pretty difficult, given the suit is adjusted to each individual and utilises invasive neural and spinal surgery to be compatible with the user's body.
<.<
But that aside, I guess my plea mainly comes down to a question of why more than anything. I just don't understand why someone would use Arachnos powers IC, use Arachnos equipment IC...but not be attached to Arachnos. The VEAT just doesn't really strike me as the sort that's open to the same kind of fudging as, say, a Fire/Fire Blaster. Plus I guess I'm a little wary of the inevitable "haw haw I stole Arachnos tech and you can't get it back ;D" concepts they'll fly around.
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But that aside, I guess my plea mainly comes down to a question of why more than anything. I just don't understand why someone would use Arachnos powers IC, use Arachnos equipment IC...but not be attached to Arachnos.
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Warburg is full to the brim of 'Rogue Arachnos' and they use Arachnos equipment, the armour actually has the insignia scratched out. I don't know much about the backstory of that admittedly, but that may answer your question about using Arachnos armour IC when your not in Arachnos, atleast from an NPC standpoint, which i imagine could be easily adapted to serve as a character concept.
Not a terribly good example, IMO. They're a group that's hunted/killed on sight - the theft of Arachnos equipment is something that's punishable by death, Destined One or not. Seeing people flaunting that kind of thing in their stories, in an enviroment where they can't be brought in by force, would annoy the hell out of me no end.
/edit - I remember a number of complaints about Heroes at GG declaring they've killed, or attacked, other Heroes and are acting without thought for the consequences. This issue is a pretty big version of that for the Villain side, heh.
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But that aside, I guess my plea mainly comes down to a question of why more than anything. I just don't understand why someone would use Arachnos powers IC, use Arachnos equipment IC...but not be attached to Arachnos. The VEAT just doesn't really strike me as the sort that's open to the same kind of fudging as, say, a Fire/Fire Blaster. Plus I guess I'm a little wary of the inevitable "haw haw I stole Arachnos tech and you can't get it back ;D" concepts they'll fly around.
[/ QUOTE ]We have comfirmed knowledge that there is a thousand worlds out there (at least, given the name of the story arc), each with its own version of Nemesis as there is a Statesman in our verse and Tyrant in the Praetorian one. There'll be at least one which has Arachnos ruling the world just like there's the Family dimension, Pantheon world, Rikti Earth, etc.
I know at least one of mine will be from a verse which uses Arachnos equipment because they have it and why would anyone apart from Arachnos themselves question that, especially given that most likely we'll be butting heads with them or other factions on a near-constant basis from Mercy to Grandville. Half the contacts you encounter give out some form of defeat Archnos mission and with little to no consequence.
There is a basis for fudging given that at least 3 arcs I've done have involved pitting factions against each other: Burke's book mission where you steal one of Ghost Widow's prized books and you recieve no more consequence than if you'd been working for Kalindra because the Patrons end up accusing each other. No one Patron believes any of the others wouldn't do it to further their own ends.
Where trust fails, suspicion and paranoia prevail.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Half the contacts you encounter give out some form of defeat Archnos mission and with little to no consequence.
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Yes, because the players would holler their backsides off if the actions they undertook were to negatively effect the character. Plus in regards to Burke, you wipe out all witnesses to your actions in an atmosphere that already leads to strained tension between Widow and Mako - you're not flaunting the equipment you have or the actions you've done in an open setting which I can see people doing with the VEAT.
If someone wants to ignore the very real repercussions that would happen by them stealing Arachnos equipment, or impersonating Arachnos personnel, and being found out...I'm just going to do what the community did with my earlier Hero Killer example: ignore them. If they want to twist the lore or fudge what would happen to their character, fine, they just shouldn't expect to be interacted with by other characters that would thump them on the nose, report them to the Arbiters or otherwise do what's said - and shown in some cases - to happen to an individual who steps out of line.
/edit - And before "alternate universe Arachnos! 
" is brought up: good for you, you're excused. I'm not aiming this at Arachnos members, but people who pretend to be Arachnos members, or those who want to be anti-Arachnos but still demand all the uniforms and powers and equipment of one.
To be ultra picky you're not a member of Arachonos anymore when you become a Destined One.
That's why you did it, to give yourself the chance to get a leg up those within the organization never could.
Actually, you are a member of Arachnos - Desslock later uses you as a mole within the organisation (Bane Spiders are part of the Hive Mind, Crab Spiders get the aformentioned neural surgery, Widows are promoted BECAUSE they're in Arachnos, etc). You're just not attached to a platoon due to your "sudden" status as Destined One.
Destined Ones aren't freed from Arachnos (not right away at least...), but they get benefits from the group itself for being on the list.
I fail to see why we shouldn't plot fudge. I know very few villians who actually use their destined one status as IC. I know very few who ICly kowtow to Arachnos like you are forced to do in the story arcs. I don't see why the SoA should be any different.
OK, let me phrase it differently then:
This community has often ignored, or belittled, Heroes that incite violence against other Heroes, those who have launched plots that tamper with the base canon but can't be interfered with (Doomsday plots spring to mind) and so on.
Why should Villains be able to get away with this and the lore surrounding VEATs? Why is it justified to ignore a Hero with a record of blue-on-blue murders, but not justified to ignore a Villain traipsing around in stolen Arachnos equipment serving anyone other than Recluse's army?
This is what narks me about the whole subject. Seems to be a huge degree of double standards going on for what's viable and what's not.
I don't see the difference here. Both strike me as god-moding: you're playing one thing, but ignoring the blowback that would occur. I hope I'm just mistaken here, but it doesn't seem this way of thinking is being held up across the board.
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say "don't do it" (guilty as I am of having a PB with an unnecessarily weird twist), but I would say "be very careful." An Arachnos trooper who's not really part of Arachnos is going to have some major disadvantages.
First, there are some powers that just won't make sense. Yes, you can kill a Wolf Spider and steal his equipment - armour, assault rifle, whatever grenades he had on him. The training/leadership/skills powers can all be covered by some past military training. But how would you explain powers that rely on direct Arachnos support, like Call Reinforcements or the Omega Manouevre?
The other thing is, of course, IC repercussions. As has been mentioned, if you get found out, the penalty is death. If you're careful, it's not a problem, but if you go around bragging about how you stole your Arachnos gear, sooner or later someone's going to report you to the Arbiters, and your lone Arachnos soldier is going to be in a lot of trouble.
Everyone likes to put a personal spin on their character. Kheldians and SoAs seem initially to be quite restrictive and so people bend the rules to be individual. You can't really go telling people that they can't do that, but at the same time there are limits to how far these things will stretch, in my opinion.
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
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Everyone likes to put a personal spin on their character. Kheldians and SoAs seem initially to be quite restrictive and so people bend the rules to be individual. You can't really go telling people that they can't do that, but at the same time there are limits to how far these things will stretch, in my opinion.
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Exactly. Granted, I've been quite aggressive in this thread...but the moment anyone makes the source of their technology or their "true" loyalties public, that's when I'll start getting grumpy with people.
Double agents, sure, spies, sure, alternate universe agents, sure.
Blatantly stolen equipment? Strutting around as a Fortunata armour, declaring how pitiful Recluse is? That's when it just gets daft. Even a game as relatively open as City of Villains is going to have its limitations. If you want people to respect your canon, then you need to respect the game's canon in return.
I'm going to side with Syra on this one, because there is a good point in there.
It's not so much you HAVE to be an Arachnos employee, its that if you are not, you should think about the consequences of that.
If you are not an arachnos soldier, you would have to be ...
a) a former Arachnos soldier (but stay out of uniform)
b) a thief (and therefore should be a lot more secretive. no standing in Grandvil hall saying you stole your armour for the lulz)
c) publicly paying lip-service to Arachnos to gain the benefits (like arbiter Sand's "hail arachnos, blah blah blah" stuff)
the point syra is making is that if a character is publicly flaunting impersonating an Arachnos officer, or stealing from them, then the IC consequences of such would likely be being shot by Arachnos, or Arachnos supporters.
If you want to fudge the backstory, don't yell from the rooftops that you're stabbing the spiders in the back 
The twist i've got going for me is it'll be the reverse, a Destined One who's determined to join Arachnos.
Toxic's been obssesed with them for 47 levels now. 3 more and she'll be ready to sign up!
My personal opinion.
Where canon exists, one should not break it unless one doesn't mind getting ignored. Where it doesn't exist, or there are gaps; by all means make reasonable extrapolations.
But I'm not gonna get all het up about people that choose to totally ignore it. I just won't RP with them, simple.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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I'm going to side with Syra on this one, because there is a good point in there.
It's not so much you HAVE to be an Arachnos employee, its that if you are not, you should think about the consequences of that.
If you are not an arachnos soldier, you would have to be ...
a) a former Arachnos soldier (but stay out of uniform)
b) a thief (and therefore should be a lot more secretive. no standing in Grandvil hall saying you stole your armour for the lulz)
c) publicly paying lip-service to Arachnos to gain the benefits (like arbiter Sand's "hail arachnos, blah blah blah" stuff)
the point syra is making is that if a character is publicly flaunting impersonating an Arachnos officer, or stealing from them, then the IC consequences of such would likely be being shot by Arachnos, or Arachnos supporters.
If you want to fudge the backstory, don't yell from the rooftops that you're stabbing the spiders in the back
[/ QUOTE ]Well you see in that regard I'm not against Syra about idiots who go round shouting about the rooftops that they kill Spiders or Widows, etc. as it is very similar to so-called heroes who claim to kill other heroes without considering the consequences. But that's moving into good or bad roleplaying territory and it's up to you who you accept and ignore.
What I'm against is the idea that I can't fudge the origin because it would go against the in-game canon for the AT; because it's not allowed.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Why roll a Soldier of Arachnos if you're not...y'know...going to be a Soldier of Arachnos in some form?
The uniform is probably the most distinct thing players can wear at the moment, after all. Especially once you factor in the Arachnos mace, the Crab limbs, etc. I don't see how anyone can viably handwave all that if they're not related to Recluse and company.
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Why roll a Soldier of Arachnos if you're not...y'know...going to be a Soldier of Arachnos in some form?
The uniform is probably the most distinct thing players can wear at the moment, after all. Especially once you factor in the Arachnos mace, the Crab limbs, etc. I don't see how anyone can viably handwave all that if they're not related to Recluse and company.
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The same reason everything gets fudged: because it's the best/only way to represent a concept. I'll grant that I find it harder to find a use like this for the SoA ATs than the Kheldian ones, but for instance: maybe that "Crab Spider" is an alien and the spider arms are part of him. Maybe that "Fortunata" is just a psychic martial artist.
These situations are one of the reasons RP fudge exists. The game rules limit what we can do, so we bend the rules. Whether any given fudging is acceptable is basically down to how well it's explained.
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
Alrightey, I know this is going to be an unpopular thread, but I have something to ask...
...if you're going to roll a Soldier of Arachnos in issue 12, please, please, please, please, please respect the basic storyline behind them if you're going to use the powers ICly. That is to say you're a part of Arachnos (at least "officially"), you're only part of Project Destiny due to your own interference with the list (not that Kalinda and company know...), and that you're not a god-like spirit of the dead possessing a suit of Crab Spider armour to bring salvation to the Rogue Isles.
I'm all for creativity, I'm all for freedom, but with this specific instance...an SoA who isn't roleplayed as part of Arachnos (when in uniform!) strikes me as rather fiddly and cumbersome to deal with. NCSoft's intentions are pretty clear with the AT's plotline (regular Joe Nobody rising up through his/her own strength to punch his super powered peers in their trumped up faces) and I think it'd be a crying shame to see this potential to go to waste.
Soldier of Arachnos. Please remember what you'll choose to be.