The SoA. A plea. (Spoilers for the VEAT plot)
By
Big_Lunk_EU,
Posted on: 2008-05-10 17:13 in Roleplaying
This is such an odd title to come across when you're Dutch...
SOA stands for:
Sexueel Overdraagbare Aandoening
Which translates to sexually transmitable affliction... I guess that's why I've not seen a thread title with STD in it!
I guess I should go read the thread now...
*does so*
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.
So, what you're telling us is that Villain Epic ATs are actually a sexual disease? 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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So, what you're telling us is that Villain Epic ATs are actually a sexual disease?
[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming they were concieved normally.. then there's ample reason to say so 
And having read the thread, I'd like to add something...
No one has a right to tell anyone they shouldn't ignore someone for what ever reason.
For the same reason, I don't think people have the right to tell people how they should play their game, or RP their character.
If you don't think their concept is viable, ignore them. That's your choice.
Of course there will be "I r in ur base, stealing ur crabpacks, lulz" characters. But how many of them will be RPed?
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.
[ QUOTE ]
So, what you're telling us is that Villain Epic ATs are actually a sexual disease?
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lvl 12 herpes lft?
Ah, the old canon vs. fudge discussion. I love this one.
My personal interpretation of Syra's point (which I appear to agree with, in case this comes out wrong) is that IF you want to use SoA equipment IC, then as far as many RPers are concerned, you should have a good reason that you're not on Lord Recluse's hitlist. If your backstory makes sense, no one will bat an eyelid, but if you start claiming that you (say) killed a Night Widow and nicked her stuff, suspension of disbelief is damaged. It makes it harder to believe that the character could exist for more than the few days it might take for Recluse and Co. to have you hunted down and shot.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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No one has a right to tell anyone they shouldn't ignore someone for what ever reason.
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Who tried to suggest that we can't ignore whoever we want? All Syracuse is saying (if I've understood properly) is that it's a bad idea to create a character who's under a standing death sentence from the brutal police state in which he's forced to live. If the IC consequences are carried out to their natural conclusion, you're gonna die.
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
Yeah, that's about it.
Have to apologise if I've come across as rather tarty with the thread: it's something of a running frustration with MMOs and me. Seen a lot, and I do mean a LOT, of characters in WoW, Neocron, Everquest, etc, fall foul of the "I can do anything I want" train of thought. With the SoA being attached to something a little more defined than most factions in the game, I just want people to keep in mind just how brutal Arachnos really is in the lore.
If you're going to involve them in your SoA storyline, then please take the time to deal with it in a convincing manner. Crab Spider legs or not, a faction that big, that powerful and that remorseless really isn't going to be as democratic or understandable as Statesman and co.
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No one has a right to tell anyone they shouldn't ignore someone for what ever reason.
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Who tried to suggest that we can't ignore whoever we want?
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Oh, that was sparked from the memory of what I read. I thought Syra complained about not being allowed to ignore people. The following section did that to me:[ QUOTE ]
Why should Villains be able to get away with this and the lore surrounding VEATs? Why is it justified to ignore a Hero with a record of blue-on-blue murders, but not justified to ignore a Villain traipsing around in stolen Arachnos equipment serving anyone other than Recluse's army?
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It's perfectly justified to ignore people on what ever grounds you like.
Also, about the 'alternate dimensions' versions. Why would they be any more justified then the thief versions?
Unless they pop back and forth, they're not part of Arachnos, so would be abducted before long to investigate... wouldn't they?
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.
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Also, about the 'alternate dimensions' versions. Why would they be any more justified then the thief versions?
Unless they pop back and forth, they're not part of Arachnos, so would be abducted before long to investigate... wouldn't they?
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Well, if you're part of an alternate-universe version of Arachnos, it might be the two Lords Recluse have a non-aggression pact that allows you to run around unmolested. Unless you mean people who've stolen the tech from another dimension, in which case, you're right; Arachnos probably wouldn't appreciate the difference until after they've gone to work on your armour with a can opener.
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
Yeah, those are the lines I'm thinking along. If Recluse will trade with the Rikti and encourage them to continue their war on Paragon City, I think he'd up for taking advantage of cross-dimensional troops. I doubt, however, he'd offer them the same level of patience as his "proper" servants.
Since when does Recluse have any patience? Patients, maybe.. But no patience!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Since when does Recluse have any patience? Patients, maybe.. But no patience!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Ah, you'd be surprised. He isn't quite as mindless as you'd think - quick to anger, quick to punish, quick to kill...but he's sharp of mind and will use/abuse anything he can if it benefits him.
Well if you are so offended by them claiming to have stolen the armour why not actually try roleplaying that offence and go grassing them up to the nearest arachnos agent - of course you may have to deal with their ways of getting the whole truth about how you sold the armour to them in the first place
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
As if. Heroes report misdeeds to the authorities. Villains blackmail. 
Knights Exemplar: Wolfram, Autumnfox, Starlit Spirit.
Militia: The Portent, Wavekite, Mr. Sandman.
The Cadre: WarpLocke, Zajin.
Numerous others.
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Well if you are so offended by them claiming to have stolen the armour why not actually try roleplaying that offence and go grassing them up to the nearest arachnos agent - of course you may have to deal with their ways of getting the whole truth about how you sold the armour to them in the first place
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Not before the thief has to deal with the levels of torture and interrogation Arachnos are known for - physical and mental. 
You're gravely over-estimating how great the "he sold it to me 
" argument would be. It'd be the word of a registered Destined One and Arachnos soldier, with Arachnos' Fortunatas and possibly even an Arbiter intervening, against some thief. Even if someone did consider this, I have no doubt they'd wimp out and fudge some excuse as to why they're just not executed on the spot.
/edit - And if someone's strong enough to resist that kind of treatment, I'd have to wonder why the hell they'd downgrade themselves by stealing a soldier's uniform.
I think you're really afraid of the noob (or in the best case newbie) RPers.
@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity
If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.
No, I'm just disillusioned by the sheer flood of roleplayers I've come across in MMOs that want it all but refuse to give anything back.
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Ah, you'd be surprised. He isn't quite as mindless as you'd think - quick to anger, quick to punish, quick to kill...but he's sharp of mind and will use/abuse anything he can if it benefits him.
[/ QUOTE ]One thing I do note is that he has a tremendous sense of humour as represented by the Heat Seeker badge. He is amused by the fact you destroy one of his fliers, hero or villain.
Also, I wouldn't say you were sounding 'tarty' just strongly opinioned. This has been quite an interesting discussion.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Yeah, those are the lines I'm thinking along. If Recluse will trade with the Rikti and encourage them to continue their war on Paragon City, I think he'd up for taking advantage of cross-dimensional troops. I doubt, however, he'd offer them the same level of patience as his "proper" servants.
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It's more usual that alternate, cross-universe versions of the same villainous entity do not tolerate each other at all and rarely go so far as to act under non-aggression pacts. Such agreements tend to go only so far as keeping your enemies "close". For as long as it suits you. Which is usually very breifly .
Nemesis certainly doesn't seem to regard cross reality counterparts in friendly, non aggressive terms.
Outside CoX, in Comic bookland, much of the same is true. Look at Kang.
I think were Recluse to become aware of an alternate version of himself, and an attached alternate version faction, he may well enter into the facade of a pact, but I would think this would be short lived and abruptly recinded at the slightest opportunity.
Variant "self" relationships and rivalries seem to brim with a lot more personal passion and competitive rivalry and of course it's so.
Whilst I can easily believe and I accept Recluse tolerates and established a beneficial relationship with an invading alien faction's ambassador, I just can't find myself so accepting of the idea he'd get into bed with "himself" so readily (oooeeeer!). I think it'd get to the tears before bed time situation very very quickly. I guess it's just personal reaction and interpretation of "lore" however.
Other than that, IMO there's only so much you can reasonably presume a cannon NPC character of such stature would do and limits to what you can speculate to the character behavior and process. Some of the very speculative stuff seems a little in the realms of... I dont know what the particular term is, but it seems a little on the dubious side flexing a major cannon character and faction to that extent.
Maybe I just don't like cross universe, multiverse stuff so much. It seems such a base common denominator in it's frequency and it rarely seems to be fleshed out or delivered to a satisfying extent.
But then I guess much of this is probably why I really don't roleplay because I really dislike certain major player characters which are NPC in an universe being used in a very speculative manner, that I guess honestly, I just don't personally like.
I'm abit bored with Praetorian Earth . I'm starting to get bored of the Shadow Shards. I'm even more bored of the Praetorian Earths and The Shadow Shards that are totally neglected of their own lore.
And I'm quite bit bored with the endless fruit of Statesman and Lord Recluse's loins. And the various multitude horde that are the Freedom Phalanx siblings.
The sheer volume of wonder tech and black projects that falls off the back of Crey trucks up is astounding. That Corporation must be a P&L nightmare.
Whilst OFC the character is written and defined by the creative team, until such time they direct otherwise, I personally have ideas of how that character's personality plays out to futher extents and I guess the key is more that I have preconcieved ideas to the limitations that to how I think the character will behave until it is written otherwise. So there's a lot of, "No I don't like that, I don't think X would act in that way at all".
I think NPC and canon stuff creates a very personal experience with readers/players/fans or whoever is experiencing it. Probably second only to players own creations which is why pushing that personal experience and relationship can, I guess, be received with dubious reaction.
People dont like their creations being "God-Modded"(?) and I don't think they like the cannon, story NPC story characters being God-Modded too speculatively much either.
Anyway, it's all pretty much rambling whilst I try to speculate exactly what it is about Lord Recluse allying with offworld, cross universe, multiverse versions of himself that I really just don't like .
But hey, that's the beauty of character creation. It doesn't have to go through me to get vetted .
Great thread though .
I probably err towards the original post a little in just the points in consideration towards the faction.
Whilst OFC I want to create individuality to my character, I'm having a lot of fun thinking about how to do it as a part and "member" of a defined faction with a lot of lore and story and conditions. I'm thinking more about how much of a power player, a schemer and a polictiking piece of spite my self serving, self interested character can be, and the mutli/inter factional rivalry, self serving environment of the Arachnos organistaion seems like a very fun and cool place to work that all out. I feel my character can certainly excercise it's own agenda and extra curricular activies around the expected role and duties of a Soldier Of Arachnos, and/or mole. Double crosses, within double crosses and ever spiralling agendas .
Always good to get a non-RPers perspective on things. Ta Mighty.
I think that sometimes a lot of us get blinkered by our personal perspectives of the 'reality' of the CoX multiverse. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is something of which we should be aware.
I'm inclined to agree with the point of view that Recluse would be unlikely to deal favourably with versions of him from other realities (and I have to admit that seeing a piece of official fiction in which one of the signature characters makes reference to the other realities would be really nice - in this case I'm refering to the common RPer view that another server = another reality). That's not to say that he wouldn't use them to meet his own ends, just that he's not going to keep his word on any sort of pact or treaty he makes with another Recluse.
There are a lot of problems with RPing in CoX and trying to accept the canon information (among the biggest being that events don't move very quickly in the official world, and it's very hard to reference some of the in-game canon, like TFs without screwing something up), and my method of dealing with it is to assume that new content (such as that which comes in a new issue) becomes 'historical' IC about a week or two after the issue is released to the live servers. Also safe to say that everything's very situational, and it's not unusual to fudge things. A lot.
I'm not sure there was a point to this, other than rambling. On to my next post, elsewhere, now, before I make more of an idiot of myself.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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That's not to say that he wouldn't use them to meet his own ends, just that he's not going to keep his word on any sort of pact or treaty he makes with another Recluse.
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^ aye, this is what I meant earlier. Though using patience as the main point was a bit cryptic, admittedly.
As far as canon goes...I definitely think the SoA has nailed it quite well in terms of what you are and what you aren't. The story arcs make it fairly clear that rather than being a Super Villain who joined Arachnos, you're a normal person who joined Arachnos and works his/her way up to becoming a Super Villain - all because you were given a lucky shot at breaking away from your rank and station. It's all about proving yourself, making your mark, punching the stuffy "supers" on the nose with the butt of your Arachnos-approved assault rifle.
Makes for a very different feel, IMO.
I'll concede on that point then, if for no other reason than peace.
I swear to god though, the moment I get whiff of "I r stoles ;D" or "I r against Arachnos ;D" storylines from anyone playing a VEAT, I'll be making Heather Mills' rants look tame.