I don't agree 100% with Razor, but the fact remains that Bane Spiders are no better at buffing teams than the other SoA, and they do everything else worse.
As an example, if Banes got Mind Link at 35 instead of Web cocoon, then they would be the best team buffer out of the SoA, so it wouldn't matter if there suvivability and damage wasn't as good as the others.
I really should do something about this signature.
it would matter because being a good team buffer doesn't help when ur soloing relentless.
I'm sure even the incompetent devs at NC NorCal can make a build which works for people who want to team, AND those who don't.
Right now i'm not seeing much evidence of that.
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it would matter because being a good team buffer doesn't help when ur soloing relentless.
I'm sure even the incompetent devs at NC NorCal can make a build which works for people who want to team, AND those who don't.
Right now i'm not seeing much evidence of that.
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having mind link AND their scalar for manuevers would make them the best veat team buffer and raise their game up to at least the levels of the fortunata, NW and crab making it a defensive powerhouse both solo and teamed
Bane Spiders aren't that weak. You could solo one as is and still not have too much difficulty. The only issue is they are not as strong as the other SoA options.
I really should do something about this signature.
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it would matter because being a good team buffer doesn't help when ur soloing relentless.
I'm sure even the incompetent devs at NC NorCal can make a build which works for people who want to team, AND those who don't.
Right now i'm not seeing much evidence of that.
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having mind link AND their scalar for manuevers would make them the best veat team buffer and raise their game up to at least the levels of the fortunata, NW and crab making it a defensive powerhouse both solo and teamed
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Sounds good to me ^^ I just want them to be as soloable as the other AT's. Considering they answer directly to lord recluse, i would have thought banes would be the best, not [censored].
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it would matter because being a good team buffer doesn't help when ur soloing relentless.
I'm sure even the incompetent devs at NC NorCal can make a build which works for people who want to team, AND those who don't.
Right now i'm not seeing much evidence of that.
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having mind link AND their scalar for manuevers would make them the best veat team buffer and raise their game up to at least the levels of the fortunata, NW and crab making it a defensive powerhouse both solo and teamed
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I agree, it would push banes to far the other way, and you would then have to go back and nerf something else like Bane Spider Armor Upgrade. Probably not the most elagent solution, but Mind Link would fit with the Bane Spider plot.
There are actually a great many things that could be done to bring Banes back up to par.
The armour changes I suggested earlier, raising S/L resistance by 6% would just about do it.
Or replace Web Cocoon with Arachnos Melee Shield: +7.5% melee def and mag 6 KB protection. This would make defenses more comparable with Night Widows.
Or even give Bash the same chance to stun as Pummel.
I really should do something about this signature.
I fail to see how 6% S/L damage resistance would cover their placate nerf.
"One of my core abilities had its recharge time trebled! But no matter! I can fail to kill for a bit longer than before thanks to this increase in my smash/lethal protection!"
it's their ability to stand head to head with bosses and up is what im concearned more about, their damage should be upped too 
good sugestions ^^
In terms of damage, the change to placate makes little difference. The bonus for the following attack is less than 50%, so in terms of sustained damage you would be better making another attack rather than placating.
The placate nerf hurts suvivability is all, a relatively small buff would counter it.
I really should do something about this signature.
No, it wouldn't. You're going into the same logic you were using in the other thread (which had nothing to do with Bane Spiders, BTW, contrary to your hilariously ignorant snark aimed at me earlier). i.e. You're claiming a small boost against two damage types is enough to make up for a significant nerf against all damage types.
Placate mitigated basically every source of damage from a target out there, and gave you a damage boost. Your Holy Grail of 6% smash/lethal is a situational band-aid that isn't anywhere near the gaping wound.
Your "solution" would be akin to increasing a Tanker's tier one offensive ability after they'd just lost a portion of their primary powerset.
If ur talking about our 'stand up' comedy routine earlier, as u put it, i have no idea who u were, or are, but what praf said about u put u into a really bad light for me. If u REALLY do hate people who solo, then i stand by what i say.
However i like to consider myself an open minded person, and i don't know why u'd care about what other people say, or if u do, but good going on the comback.
I'm tew naab to know how to properly fix this, but it doesn't take a brain scientist or a rocket surgeon to work out that the nerf has hurt 
owie.
And increase from 30% to 36% would be a small buff.
An increase from 7.5% to 13.5% against the most common damage types is a significant buff.
I never claimed the nerf to Placate was a "massive gaping hole", just another knock to a set of powers which was already not as good as anything comparable.
I really should do something about this signature.
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but it doesn't take a brain scientist or a rocket surgeon to work out that the nerf has hurt owie.
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Yeah, exactly. I just don't think a minor defense buff like that is going to make up for it. When have you EVER said to yourself "ah yes, that 6% bonus has saved my skin"? Given how rapidly bosses attack, and how quickly they can do damage...one hit or two, you're going down if your damage doesn't make up for the loss in survivability.
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And increase from 30% to 36% would be a small buff.
An increase from 7.5% to 13.5% against the most common damage types is a significant buff.
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Not if you haven't got the damage to back it up. Get hit once hard enough, wham. It's over. Placate didn't just act as defense, it was complete nullification of an enemy's attack - far superior, and far more suited to the Bane playstyle. Letting you get shot by a damage type few bosses deal (or deal in enough quantities for the bonus to make a difference) is not a suitable trade for trebling Placate's cooldown.
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I never claimed the nerf to Placate was a "massive gaping hole", just another knock to a set of powers which was already not as good as anything comparable.
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Good thing I didn't say anything about you making the comment then.
You don't crack someone over the skull and then offer them a plaster. The placate nerf is the cracking of said skull, your suggestion is the plaster.
I read this post by Gohan
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ummm no
for all the reasons Syracuse stated
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So I went back and read the post by Syracuse to see what reasons he game that Bane spiders couldn't possibly recieve a 6% buff to S/L resistance.
And I couldn't find any.
All I saw was a diatribe against people who solo.
Hence my comment.
I really should do something about this signature.
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So I went back and read the post by Syracuse to see what reasons he game that Bane spiders couldn't possibly recieve a 6% buff to S/L resistance.
And I couldn't find any.
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That's because you weren't talking about Bane Spiders in that thread.
Good idea to link the thread too, tbh.
Where's this mythical hatred against soloers?
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Given how rapidly bosses attack, and how quickly they can do damage
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I think you may have me confused with someone else. I have never argued that Banes where incapable of handling bosses or EBs, or anything else in the game. Give me a few insps and I could solo any EB in the game with any AT and powerset (ok, maybe not the Jade Spider). CoX is a very easy game.
My only issue with banes is there is nothing they do better than the other SoAs. At one time they could placate better than anyone. Now they can't even do that, so I have thown out a few constructive suggestions. Maybe 6% res wouldn't be much help agains an EB. Maybe it would be far to much against half a dozen minions. Maybe someone else could actually do some calculations and come up with some numbers instead of slagging people off.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I think you may have me confused with someone else. I have never argued that Banes where incapable of handling bosses or EBs, or anything else in the game. Give me a few insps and I could solo any EB in the game with any AT and powerset (ok, maybe not the Jade Spider). CoX is a very easy game.
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Then you should have no problem soloing against minions and Lts, correct? The big issue with Banes appears to be their survivability outside of groups, and against stronger foes - something that Placate, brought back to its original level, would help with far more than a minor boost to defense.
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My only issue with banes is there is nothing they do better than the other SoAs. At one time they could placate better than anyone. Now they can't even do that, so I have thown out a few constructive suggestions. Maybe 6% res wouldn't be much help agains an EB. Maybe it would be far to much against half a dozen minions. Maybe someone else could actually do some calculations and come up with some numbers instead of slagging people off.
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Yes, maybe you could refrain from making stuff up about me, launching into woefully arrogant accusations and wriggling away from my counterpoints like you've got half a ton of worms up your backside. That would help somewhat.
Your 6% boost, however, would not. The problem with Banes is not their defense. It's the lack of any significant role. They can't tank suitably, they can't DPS suitably, they can't buff suitably. They need a rethink, not a band-aid.
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I couldn't find any.
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That's because you weren't talking about Bane Spiders in that thread.
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Explain Gohan's statement then.
Or have a go at him for misrepresenting you.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Explain Gohan's statement then.
Or have a go at him for misrepresenting you.
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He wasn't acting like a complete twit. You launched into ad hominem.
In that case. let's start afresh, if u like people who solo, i can bring myself to like u! U've made some great points, but to be honest, u can scream this, spoon feed this to me and every nub who plays the game, but the only people who NEED to hear it are those coward devs who just ware afraid to let some villain class be good. i mean EXCELLENT.
The devs will NEVER, NEVER move this game on creatively unless they create (not unfair) big, big changes to the speed and style of play, maybe not for the odler AT's which have been set in stone, but creating great roles for new ones.
Another thing, no game is balanced. I'm sure some people would love to see un-petted MM's doing the same damage as brutes, but there ya go. Not balanced or equal.
The game is defined by the difference and variety in the AT's, and yes the devs have been great in making sure they match up well against each other, but ae NOT equal.
For example, any blaster could crush a brute, but if a brute gets close, build up + pow = dead.
Devs need to find a way to make VEATs the first step into a hugely new and more creatively developed play style for villains, they [censored] up khelds, time to try again.
Making an AMAZING class might not seem the way to do it for some, but new AT's are what people cream themselves over.
U didn't see anyone saying 'omg there's gonna be new IO's in i13 zomg!' or crying because there wasn't any in i12.
Dammit devs, do ur jobs.
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The big issue with Banes appears to be their survivability outside of groups, and against stronger foes
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No, the big issue with Banes is why would anyone choose to play one when Crabs and Night Widows can do all the same stuff better.
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the lack of any significant role. They can't tank suitably, they can't DPS suitably, they can't buff suitably. They need a rethink, not a band-aid.
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I sort of agree, but given that the DPS is much the same as Night Widows, if thier suvivability was comparable they would be able to do the same job equally well.
It's far to late into the issue's development to do a major rethink. You can't make major changes, such as increasing base damage, without risking breaking Crab Spiders.
At this stage a band-aid is the best we can hope for.
I really should do something about this signature.
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No, the big issue with Banes is why would anyone choose to play one when Crabs and Night Widows can do all the same stuff better.
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Which is linked to their survivability. It helps if you quote the post entirely, rather than chopping them up. You've, amazingly, agreed with and contradicted the same sentence.
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I sort of agree, but given that the DPS is much the same as Night Widows, if thier suvivability was comparable they would be able to do the same job equally well.
It's far to late into the issue's development to do a major rethink. You can't make major changes, such as increasing base damage, without risking breaking Crab Spiders.
At this stage a band-aid is the best we can hope for.
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A band-aid that should be applied to the wound, not the scratch. A defense buff does not allow them to do anything better than any other SoA.
BTW, kudos to your selective reading skills. You've surpassed GG.
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Which is linked to their survivability.
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A defense buff does not allow them to do anything better than any other SoA.
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You've, amazingly, agreed with and contradicted the same sentence.
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Or are you suggesting that there is no connection between suvivability and defense?
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A defense buff does not allow them to do anything better than any other SoA.
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No, but it would make them equally as good.
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kudos to your selective reading skills.
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It's easy, I just don't bother to reply to anything uninteliagable or clear nonsense.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Or are you suggesting that there is no connection between suvivability and defense?
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Key word: better. BETTER. Your buff doesn't make them superior, to a worthwhile degree, in any aspect to the other SoA.
As I said, your selective reading skills are impressive.
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No, but it would make them equally as good.
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No it wouldn't, because they'd lack the raw damage or consistent DPS. Having a little extra defense while your core purpose still lags behind does nothing to ease concerns about the AT.
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It's easy, I just don't bother to reply to anything uninteliagable or clear nonsense.
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But you enjoy repeating yourself a lot.
You're a bloody coward, Praf. If you've got the balls to slag someone off, then you've got the balls to face up to them again when your accusations are trumped. It's absolutely pathetic behaviour, and the level of arrogance you attach to it is hilariously out of place.
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On most veats, most definately on a bane spider (as they seem to be lacking the most in teams, and solo), I would heavily consider stacking Assault with the power pool version, so that you have a high damage buff to you and your team, increasing at least team efficiency. If I stack nothing else on my VEAT it will be Assault, sod the end... lol
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i don't care about teams, i want banes to be able to solo, that's my complaint. I WILL NEVER say 'right, let's tailor my character to work well with 7 other peeps'
I want a solo build through and through. Anyone who can solo can team, it's just logic. If something is good by itself it can't be bad with others. True i may not offer more toggles or bonuses to my team, but hey why do i care, i'm there for inf, exp and to kill stuff.