But surely Blaster/Empath can be slapped by Brute/Corrupter; especially if Corrupter is Kin?
See, I'm not seeing this UBER stats as of yet.
I'd also like to direct you to Fire/Kin+Heavy; secondhand info tells me they're rather good.
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If half of these wonderful character concepts flying around here would be found in RV, I wouldnt have complained in the first place.
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Those "concepts" are in RV... on union 
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
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But surely Blaster/Empath can be slapped by Brute/Corrupter; especially if Corrupter is Kin?
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A Blaster/Empath duo should steamroll over a Brute/Corr duo, especially if the Corr is Kin. With AB, RA*2 and Fort (especially if any of the above are Power Boosted), the villain duo shouldn't be able to dint the Blaster before he takes out the Corr, and then the Brute. Lacking a targeted heal also makes Kin a far weaker support toon than an Empath - SB is great, but it's far less useful when applied to a Brute in open PvP against ranged attackers. A better counterpoint would have been to use either Corr/Corr or Dom/Corr with the Corr being a Thermal (the most support-based villain build you can get) - even so, the Blaster/Empath duo would still have a distinct advantage.
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See, I'm not seeing this UBER stats as of yet.
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A properly built and played Empath can make a Blaster godly, what's not to get? With a PB'd Fort and AB my AR/Dev can happily stand in front of a pair of MMs and their Heavies, Full Autoing and Flamethrowing their henchmen and expect to walk out not only alive, but with 2 (easy) kills. If you don't believe Empaths can be that good, go out and see it done.
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I'd also like to direct you to Fire/Kin+Heavy; secondhand info tells me they're rather good.
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Any kind of Kin+Heavy is "good" but only because of SB and ID making them more mobile and less susceptible to KB respectively. For this purpose, any Kin will do - Defender, Controller, or Corruptor.
As far as primaries go, Fire is far better in PvE than in PvP. (I presume we're talking about Fire/Kin Corrs, not 'trollers.) Better PvP primaries are Ice and Sonic, for the better ST attack chain (Fire needs AoEs to make a decent attack chain) and secondary effects (Ice: slows; Sonic: -Res; Fire: none, barring DoT.) You can certainly make Fire/Kin work - and I'd like to think I do - but it's nowhere near as deadly as some builds can be. Most importantly, from a PvP perspective, Kin Corrs lack one vital ancillary power to give them parity with Kin 'trollers and Defenders - access to Powerboost.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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But surely Blaster/Empath can be slapped by Brute/Corrupter; especially if Corrupter is Kin?
See, I'm not seeing this UBER stats as of yet.
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Weasel, psst, he really wasn't exaggerating, I know how good emp+blaster is. Although it isnt the best for 2v2.. Besides the goodness of the duo will always depend on how skillful the players are.. a duo with an unskilled empath will bite the dust quite quickly. Empath is potentially the most useful and most difficult character to play in PVP imo.
ps. We are still skidding sideways here.
Lets see, its difficult taking all the slotting and powerboost into account and I cant be bothered that much so Im thinking approximate figures here. Correct me if necessary, dunno how accurate i am.
These buffs can be considered permanent:
roughly
+60% toHit
+31,25% damage
+60% defense to everything (that is - this includes psi)
+percep smack dab to the cap
+108% resistance to perception debuffs
+protection to all mez effects except KB and repel, magnitude prot somewhere around 50-60..
Other buffs that may or may not be quite permanent:
around +2000% increase to end recovery (counting both AB and RA) (Im sure these hit some sort of cap somewhere..)
around +1500-2000% increase to HP regen (counting both AB and regA)
+80% resistance to slows
+100% rechargespeed
And of course you get empaths heals, which alone heal hp faster than regen scrapper with all the goods running, and possibility to smack the blaster from 1hp to full in 2 seconds. Only things emp cannot protect the blaster from are knockback (completely covered by acrobatics) and repel (the only real problem, but can be beaten with break frees couple times). If you want to cover repel as well with player buffs you get the classic pvp superteam, blaster+emp+kin.
Trying to look at Nofuture here.. I wonder what for instance this is about..:
"80% Resistance(JumpHeight ) to Target for 90 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]
Effect does not stack from same caster"
ps. to sum it up, a blaster with all emp buffs is unkillable. You had best be running in the other direction.
pps. this may look uber up until to the point where blaster gets sonic caged..
It appears that teh power that really unbalances things here is Power Boost. It seems like almost all heroes can have access to it through the Ancillary Pools (I'm far from a CoH expert so don't know exact numbers). Of all the CoV ATs and powerset combos the only ones that have access to it are /ice and /nrg dominators.
Unless I have a dedicated thermal and/or cold corruptor, my Defense based Brute doesn't stand a chance in lvl 50 PvP; Heroes can easily hit me even through Overload. It is simply a lot more fun for villains to pvp at lower levels, which probably explains why Sirens and Warburg are a lot more popular than RV.
Very few of the CoV patron powers come close to most of what is on offer to heroes and I hope that this is addressed in the future.
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It appears that teh power that really unbalances things here is Power Boost. It seems like almost all heroes can have access to it through the Ancillary Pools (I'm far from a CoH expert so don't know exact numbers).
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Only controllers and defenders from ancillaries (power build up is even better). For blasters its in the EM secondary.
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my Defense based Brute doesn't stand a chance in lvl 50 PvP;
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I can tell you that def-based scrappers dont either. There is a reason why regen is considered so good.
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It appears that teh power that really unbalances things here is Power Boost. It seems like almost all heroes can have access to it through the Ancillary Pools (I'm far from a CoH expert so don't know exact numbers). Of all the CoV ATs and powerset combos the only ones that have access to it are /ice and /nrg dominators.
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Power Boost does unbalance things, which is somewhat representative of the general disparity between PPPs and APPs.
Power Boost is available to any Defender in the Power Mastery Ancillary and any Controller in the Primal Forces Ancillary - the two Hero Support ATs. Power Boost is not available to either of the Villain Support ATs, Corruptors and MMs (to a degree). This also means that there is a disparity between the availability of Power Boost to the two control primaries on either side - all Controllers have the option of taking Power Boost, whereas /Ice and /Energy Assault are the only Dominators with access to the power. Further tipping the balance for the Heroes is that /Energy Blasters also have access to Power Boost.
Simply put, there are about 105 Hero builds with access to Power Boost - of whom 98 are support.
There are 10 Villain builds with access to Power Boost - of whom 0 are support.
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Unless I have a dedicated thermal and/or cold corruptor, my Defense based Brute doesn't stand a chance in lvl 50 PvP; Heroes can easily hit me even through Overload. It is simply a lot more fun for villains to pvp at lower levels, which probably explains why Sirens and Warburg are a lot more popular than RV.
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The main part of the problem is that the general PvP base - on Union at least - are pretty poor as acting a) with focus on support, b) as a team. Both of these are essential for success in villain teams PvPing at level 50, yet you will repeatedly see /Colds without shields, /Kins without ID, and /Thermals without Thaw - and you'll see them getting torn apart, more than likely. Even if they have all the required buffs, it's rare that you'll get them applied regularly or without prompting in your standard PvPPuG. My general rule of thumb, and one my VG tend to adhere to in the zones, is Buff or Die.
It's somewhat ironic that - in high-end PvP at least - Villains have a greater need to keep up constant buffing and working in teams. The benefit that the Villains have is that their buffers also have potent debuffs - Thermals and Colds are nowhere near as good at buffing as Emps and FFs, but Emps and FFs have nothing like Heat Exhaustion and Benumb, nor do they have Scourge. Up until this point, there's a certain parity - the presence of Power Boost assuredly unbalances the equation. There's a world of difference between a PB'd Fort and a Forge, and a whole bar of difference between a PB'd Transference and a non-PB'd Transference. One well built and played Empath can nullify a handful of Corruptors... at least, until you wheel out the /Sonic Corr to Cage the Emp. (Then again, you're far more likely to see Sonic Defenders and 'trollers than you are Sonic Corruptors, mainly because Sonic doesn't work too well as a Corruptor secondary... another debate, perhaps. )
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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I can tell you that def-based scrappers dont either. There is a reason why regen is considered so good.
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It's easier to beat a Regen in high-level Villain PvP than it is to beat an SR, especially in a team situation.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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at least, until you wheel out the /Sonic Corr to Cage the Emp.
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As proven time and time again, its always better choice to cage the damagedealer without which the hero team isnt getting kills..
This all is nice and fun, but doesnt solve the problems with heavies..
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I can tell you that def-based scrappers dont either. There is a reason why regen is considered so good.
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It's easier to beat a Regen in high-level Villain PvP than it is to beat an SR, especially in a team situation.
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Ah.. but I wasnt thinking villains.. Besides, dont you guys get access to radiation?
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As proven time and time again, its always better choice to cage the damagedealer without which the hero team isnt getting kills..
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Depends on the situation and team makeup. Last time I saw the PDs fighting Retribution in the arena, caging the Emp was extremely successful. Isolating a team from their main support is always a viable tactic - it's only less effective in instances where there is extra support, and not enough Cage to go around.
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This all is nice and fun, but doesnt solve the problems with heavies..
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That's because there is no problem with Heavies.
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Ah.. but I wasnt thinking villains.. Besides, dont you guys get access to radiation?
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Surely do - but Villains don't get access to PB'd Radiation. Thus does the beast again reveal itself.
That, and Rad is equally as good at taking down Regens as is it against SR.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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That's because there is no problem with Heavies.
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Thats your view, not mine.
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Ah.. but I wasnt thinking villains.. Besides, dont you guys get access to radiation?
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Surely do - but Villains don't get access to PB'd Radiation. Thus does the beast again reveal itself.
That, and Rad is equally as good at taking down Regens as is it against SR.
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Not to mention villains dont have blasters, against which SRs will usually take a flying leap.. I havent yet met a SR scrapper who stands any kind of chance against my blaster in duels.
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That's because there is no problem with Heavies.
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Thats your view, not mine.
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Given that emp/blaster duo's are far more powerful than any player/heavy combo, I dont see how you can say one needs changed but the other is ok. Maybe you can give us a typical scenario of you vs a player & heavy, then people can offer an alternative strategy.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Villains can only have Powerboost + Vengeance to have such power, (/Ice or /Nrg Dominators) and not only the Dominator can't heal, buff or even control the opponents, it requires someone to die and you can't make PB + Vengeance perma.
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One word for you:
Forge
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Twenty-seven words for you
Forge does not make Vengeance perma.
Forge is not available to Dominators.
Forge does not grant defense.
Forge does not give you +recharge to make Vengeance perma.
Sure Forge does grant a hefty ToHit bonus but even if you can hit the PB defensed players, you still lack the damage to kill them because villains have horrible damage because the inherents are working against them.
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That's because there is no problem with Heavies.
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Thats your view, not mine.
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Given that emp/blaster duo's are far more powerful than any player/heavy combo, I dont see how you can say one needs changed but the other is ok. Maybe you can give us a typical scenario of you vs a player & heavy, then people can offer an alternative strategy.
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Your scenario requires an emp. I dont have one available.
Besides one of my original points that Heavies serve no purpose in PVP other than making the reward-grinding in RV easier. For that reason alone I want to get rid of them. I made this thread to see if anybody else thinks the same.
ps. @xanthus: I thought Id disagree with Zathroth but I dont because fortitude is lot better than forge. Forge grants only about 9% bigger +damage bonus than forti. PLus heroes can hit powerboost+fortitude while villains dont get PB+forge.
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Besides one of my original points that Heavies serve no purpose in PVP other than making the reward-grinding in RV easier. For that reason alone I want to get rid of them.
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Who hates heavies? Id like to have some PVP in RV sometimes like tonight in a team, having a fight with couple brutes, until bzzzt..click hospital. I mean whats the bloody point??!!!
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Sounds like it.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
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Besides one of my original points that Heavies serve no purpose in PVP other than making the reward-grinding in RV easier.
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They are also something different that no other zone has and allows anyone to access the MM control system. How can this be a bad thing? 
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Besides one of my original points that Heavies serve no purpose in PVP other than making the reward-grinding in RV easier.
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They are also something different that no other zone has and allows anyone to access the MM control system. How can this be a bad thing?
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
It appears that teh power that really unbalances things here is Power Boost. It seems like almost all heroes can have access to it through the Ancillary Pools (I'm far from a CoH expert so don't know exact numbers). Of all the CoV ATs and powerset combos the only ones that have access to it are /ice and /nrg dominators.
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Def/controllers have access to it, blasters in one secondary, and scrappers/tanks have access to FA which is as unbalanced as PB.
Empathy and Blasters are also "broken" for team pvp, by design. Most of the time, when you use specialists (pvp empath = pure support, blasters = pure damage) in such a fast-paced environment, they'll beat balanced characters.
Even if Cm didn't stack, even if emps didn't have PB, even if blasters didn't get 30% unresistable damage on every attack, emp+blaster would still be very strong. Too strong compared to most villains.
(I'm not advocating for any nerf except CM, but I'd love to see every pvp zone going FFA, or to be able to make any AT on both sides ; of course, it's not going to happen, so I'll have to stick to underpowered villains to find some zone pvp action )
OK, figures I can deal with.
Isn't this just Empaths though? Surely you could add this to a Scrapper/Tank or a D3 Defender? or Even a GP?
Blasters 30% through can't be that powerful surely?
And given that much firepower; surely the idea would be to go for the Empath; who has to be within Blast Range of the Blaster?
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Besides one of my original points that Heavies serve no purpose in PVP other than making the reward-grinding in RV easier.
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They are also something different that no other zone has and allows anyone to access the MM control system. How can this be a bad thing?
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Because there is no decent PvP zones over level 40 where this thing doesn't occur.
Among consenting adults, the RV PvP can be Heavy-free 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The easiest way would be just to get an Empath into RV with you, to see exactly how it holds up. Numbers are great, but you can pretty easily see for yourself how much better Blaster + Empath is than a heavy by going in.
Aside from the big +def of Fort, the regen from PBed Regen Aura and AB is insane, and very often enough to keep a Blaster alive on its own, if you're only talking one heavy - I can just let Syn regen and not even bother healing his Blasters, at times. With more around, you need some heals as well, but as long as the Emp is quick, and timing its buffs well, you shouldn't have a problem.
Well-played Blaster/Empath duos are scary - I often find a dedicated duo like that is worse than a team with an Empath even, because all of those buffs and heals are concentrated on one person, and they become very difficult to kill.
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Obviously. But if I'd be fighting against empath+blaster, then there would be PVP involved at least.
If half of these wonderful character concepts flying around here would be found in RV, I wouldnt have complained in the first place.