Am I really the only one

I was attempting to de-flame the situation.

If someone posted a thread about creating a Scrapper and taking the worst possible powers, and someone responded with "that's silly", I don't much see how that could be considered constructive criticism. So, yes, if I had to, I'd probably point that out.

Giving reasons why someone should try X = good.
Telling people not doing X is silly = not good.

As Blind Minotaur said, you don't have to like it, but you don't have a right to call the idea "silly".

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I was attempting to de-flame the situation.

If someone posted a thread about creating a Scrapper and taking the worst possible powers, and someone responded with "that's silly", I don't much see how that could be considered constructive criticism. So, yes, if I had to, I'd probably point that out.

Giving reasons why someone should try X = good.
Telling people not doing X is silly = not good.

As Blind Minotaur said, you don't have to like it, but you don't have a right to call the idea "silly".

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ok. I see. your problem is with the word "silly". What I was trying to say is that I think his decision is based on how he feels at this moment right now. Not that there is anything wrong reacting on emotion, his post had a sort of "indefinitely" tone to it. If he comes back in 2 days time after calming down he might feel like a bit of a muppet after saying he wont be back for a while

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Back away Marq;

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Not sure what this means. Looks like bravado tbh.

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Stasis said that no-one would be able to understand a personal choice because "It's personal"; not an implication of lack of understanding.

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I wasnt assuming any implication that I couldnt understand. To me the last few posts stasis made just seem very obvious. I couldnt see any reason to post them unless she were trying to attack me in some way. Of course, she cleared that up in her last post anyway and it makes sense now.

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Whilst if you'd remembered, I have also posted about my Mind/Emp in PvP; she's been in Sirens quite recently.

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Seems like it was a successful excursion, given your above comments. I have to wonder what timespan you've actually spent in PvP, and what you've learnt regarding your build/playstyle with regard to what is required of an Empath in PvP... but I won't pry. I do hope it's more than just "sux" though.

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Back away Marq;

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No Weez, Stasis is here to save you - not the other way around, you silly goose.

That's pretty much it, yes.

And Syn, I'm not here to save anyone. I don't actually agree with what Weasel's saying - but neither do I agree with the opposition.

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I don't actually agree with what Weasel's saying - but neither do I agree with the opposition.

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In that case - seeing as you've jumped into the debate anyway - what are your opinions on the situation?

On Heavies (as that is what this thread's all about, really): I think they're a fun little addition which serve very little purpose. If they worked in the same way Shivans do, I could see them being overpowered in PvE, but never in PvP. At the moment, all I see Heavies as useful for is keeping the NPC mobs off your back when you're trying to engage in PvP; or helping you take down turrets.

For support characters without a team, they're wonderful.
For damage characters without a team, they're fine.
For damage or support characters with a team, they're totally useless.

The AI on them is not perfect, it's not even good - it's incredibly easy to lose the thing when running to/from a fight, and I don't know about anyone else, but it takes me at least three tries to get the thing to attack the correct target. Or even, in fact, attack at all.

Personally, I think RV would work brilliantly without them, but I don't see that with them, RV isn't a decent PvP zone (blegh, please re-arrange sentence to make sense). I can see the argument that with Heavies, people aren't encouraged to team as they can be used effectively in PvP. I've seen it done. However, I can also see the other side, in that Heavies aren't overpowered.

I'm pretty much setting up shop on the bench.

As for the PvP as a whole discussion: you lot are never going to agree. Face it.

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I couldnt see any reason to post them unless she were trying to attack me in some way.

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Now doesn't that at least imply some form of confusion in this whole area? Hence "Back away".

Honestly; I HAVE actually played in PvP. A lot of which Syn, Cel and myself actually agree on; being that the setup is not helpful. Our disagreement stems from that Heavies can swing the battle far too quickly (my point) but can be dealt with through certain powers (S/C point) which some of us find hard to use (my point) or make the actual PvP boring (my point).

The most interesting thing is that both me and Hammer play Nrg/Nrg blasters.

But if we're looking at building the Marqandance Killer PvP character; we're talking an awful lot of pool powers and very little primary/secondary.

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Now doesn't that at least imply some form of confusion in this whole area? Hence "Back away".

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I would have said something like "you know, stasis isnt attacking you btw". I would expect a phrase like "back away" is most commonly used when trying to intimidate another person.

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But if we're looking at building the Marqandance Killer PvP character; we're talking an awful lot of pool powers and very little primary/secondary.

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Killer pvp character? Not the sort of thing I would claim, I play a dom of all things! I suggested TP foe but I dont see it as a real chore to pick up.

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The most interesting thing is that both me and Hammer play Nrg/Nrg blasters.

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So do I.

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The most interesting thing is that both me and Hammer play Nrg/Nrg blasters.

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The difference here is that he plays one well.

I've never had a problem with heavies, but I still feel that RV has far too much PvE in it (NPC mobs, mostly). That said, I belong firmly in the camp of "If you want 'pure' PvP with no interruptions, go to the arena".

You smell anyway :P

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The AI on them is not perfect, it's not even good [...]

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Actually it's nonexistent -- they only do what their owner commands them to do, just like Mastermind pets.

it would be nice if the Arachnos ones moved into melee though, you have to micro-manage them like a thug bruiser.

that said, i think its a fair penalty for having an elite boss at your comand

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The AI on them is not perfect, it's not even good [...]

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Actually it's nonexistent -- they only do what their owner commands them to do, just like Mastermind pets.

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So wait it's a level 54 MM pet, and people say it' not very good.

Well that makes me feel secure about my MM's place in PvP that does

(I can't wait to have one, if they suck so much I gues i'll be the only one with them eh? eh?)

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The AI on them is not perfect, it's not even good [...]

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Actually it's nonexistent -- they only do what their owner commands them to do, just like Mastermind pets.

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There's still some AI involved, as on the odd occasion they'll randomly attack something that wasn't attacking it/you, and you'll be in trouble. Though, that'd probably down to setting it to aggressive, so that'd be the nonexistant AI again...

...hrm.

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There's still some AI involved, as on the odd occasion they'll randomly attack something that wasn't attacking it/you, and you'll be in trouble. Though, that'd probably down to setting it to aggressive, so that'd be the nonexistant AI again...

...hrm.

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Oh I see, Heavies are useless because people have never played an MM before, and are getting introduced to Pet managment in a fairly unfriendly zone.

I can't wait for my 54 pet!

Uhm, no, that's not what I said at all.

There are two camps when it comes to Heavies: those who think they're overpowered and pointless, and those who don't. I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not someone has played an MM before coming across one; as I can say for certain that one of the people involved in this debate has played an MM for many levels, successfully.

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Uhm, no, that's not what I said at all.

There are two camps when it comes to Heavies: those who think they're overpowered and pointless, and those who don't. I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not someone has played an MM before coming across one; as I can say for certain that one of the people involved in this debate has played an MM for many levels, successfully.

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Well if you've played a MM why do you problems controlling it?

Hell you only have to control one pet as well, I can manage 5 with a few keybinds and I still have to single debuff mobs myself.

You were saying they're bad because they're so dumb, I was jsut pointing out if you have a MM like control over them then they're only as dumb as you want them to be :/ If they were like all other pets that had no controls then i'd be inclined to agree with you.

Esit: as for them being Slow., Well as an MM I gotta fight at a slow pace, so that suits me fine!

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Oh I see, Heavies are useless because people have never played an MM before, and are getting introduced to Pet managment in a fairly unfriendly zone.

I can't wait for my 54 pet!

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I think the AI issues are more that the tracking is pretty poor, and because the Heavies are extremely slow, they can tend to get stuck on scenery, especially on certain parts of the map. Sometimes I'll find myself having to backtrack to get back to my Heavy and get it past a tree, or some stairs.

Ordering it to go after someone is easy enough (especially if you drag and drop the commands from the pet window it opens up for you), but it still moves very slowly, so it's not going to be chasing after people at any rate. Less of an issue with the hero side Heavy with its ranged, single-target "nuke", but the villain one is a lot better in melee. (Mind you, I still like the villain ones better - they're great once you get used to moving them around, for the PvE in the zone.) There's certainly going to be a learning curve for anyone who's not played an MM much, though - I know there was for me.

Ack, I see you've got the wrong idea about my posts. I'm not saying heavies are overpowered or not.

I'm just saying they seem to be great for MM's who are kinda forced to move slowly around PvP or leave BG and get 3 shotted by a blaster.

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Uhm, no, that's not what I said at all.

There are two camps when it comes to Heavies: those who think they're overpowered and pointless, and those who don't. I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not someone has played an MM before coming across one; as I can say for certain that one of the people involved in this debate has played an MM for many levels, successfully.

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Well if you've played a MM why do you problems controlling it?

Hell you only have to control one pet as well, I can manage 5 with a few keybinds and I still have to single debuff mobs myself.

You were saying they're bad because they're so dumb, I was jsut pointing out if you have a MM like control over them then they're only as dumb as you want them to be :/ If they were like all other pets that had no controls then i'd be inclined to agree with you.

Esit: as for them being Slow., Well as an MM I gotta fight at a slow pace, so that suits me fine!

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I didn't say they were "bad because they're so dumb", I said the AI is not good - at least with MM pets, as you say, you can set up keybinds. My opinion on Heavies is that they're a nice little addition, but I don't see them being either a hinderance on the zone or an advantage.

For the record, the person who's played an MM successfully for many levels is not me.

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...at least with MM pets, as you say, you can set up keybinds.

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Just as a hint to anyone reading this, you can set up macros for the Heavies. In fact, easier still, you can drag and drop the commands from the pet windows, as I mentioned, right into empty slots on your tray.

No idea why I thought to try it, but I just noticed the drag-and-drop trick for myself a couple of weeks ago, and it's nice if you're really interested in making the most out of the villain Heavies, especially.

Just to clarify, do you mean you can set up your own macros for them? Such as you can with basic MM pets?

Because that's pretty nifty.

You can! Not wizzy enoguh to do it offhand, but it should be fairly easy if you jus search MM boards for Binds by pet name and change it to the heavies name.

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Just to clarify, do you mean you can set up your own macros for them? Such as you can with basic MM pets?

Because that's pretty nifty.

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Yep! The pet window gives you some good basic ones if you don't want to get too far into it (or want the pretty icons, rather than grey macro buttons), and is nice for people who don't know much about macros.