The hero heavy is sometimes a real pain in the butt - one hit from the back laser and off to the hospital you go, pretty much no matter what character you're playing... But it just adds another dimension to the pvp - you need to keep the distance 
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
[ QUOTE ]
Who hates heavies? Id like to have some PVP in RV sometimes like tonight in a team, having a fight with couple brutes, until bzzzt..click hospital. I mean whats the bloody point??!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I like the challenge - you have to keep a high level of awareness at pretty much any time you're engaged in a fight, and be prepared for the worst case scenario and be able to get yourself out of it. I also like destroying someone's heavy whilst they watch from a safe distance.
It also helps to somewhat level the gap between those with PvP experience and those who lack it, to a degree, and also goes some way to even out the playing field when there are uneven numbers of heroes and villains - providing the heavies are in the right hands, of course.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I like the challenge - you have to keep a high level of awareness at pretty much any time you're engaged in a fight, and be prepared for the worst case scenario and be able to get yourself out of it. I also like destroying someone's heavy whilst they watch from a safe distance.
[/ QUOTE ]
Awareness got nothing to do with it. To get kills I have to get close, and if those people arent moving far from their heavies theres not much chance. Getting kills with a blaster is not a question of staying in range and blasting (in which case villains will swarm and 'gank' you since you waste time). Killing the owner to get rid of the heavy is impossible because of the oneshot(naturally were only talking about brutes and masterminds as heavy holders since that is the case 95% of the time). Killing the heavy is out of the question for same reason.
If the damn things could destroy each other just as easily I wouldnt complain. But if I send my heavy in alone it gets decimated by the masterminds/brutes. IF I try to take out the owner im oneshotted. Explain where is the Player vs Player part in here?
[ QUOTE ]
It also helps to somewhat level the gap between those with PvP experience and those who lack it, to a degree, and also goes some way to even out the playing field when there are uneven numbers of heroes and villains - providing the heavies are in the right hands, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah? Then how come the LOWER level PvP zones don't have heavies? You'd think those are the places where new players learn pvp!
RV happens to be the biggest thorn on my side, every time I go there I am enraged beyond anything. I don't want to start swearing and breaking forum rules again. Apparently I AM alone in my view that heavies [censored] up PvP in RV. 
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently I AM alone in my view that heavies [censored] up PvP in RV.
[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly you are, since everybody else thinks RV is an XP/Inf/Prestige farming zone
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
You think that is funny?
[ QUOTE ]
It also helps to somewhat level the gap between those with PvP experience and those who lack it, to a degree, and also goes some way to even out the playing field when there are uneven numbers of heroes and villains - providing the heavies are in the right hands, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
In exactly what way? You think it is beneficial for 'those without much PVP experience' to be continually oneshotted so badly they have to ask what hit them?
ps. I use term oneshot where it doesnt actually matter whether it is oneshot or two or whatever. Point is that squishies will have 0 chance to react and prevent themselves dying.
Its clear to see you have been seriously ticked off with what ever happened in RV.
RV is seen as a PvE zone without a doubt if you do enter you have to be careful of the PvE content that exists in zone because it was designed like that for concept/story line.
If you dont like it stay to the arena where you have a fair chance of not being oneshotted unless you fight a Stalker 
Again its a PvP zone so you do get ganked and stuff does happen in it you really wont like...
[ QUOTE ]
ps. I use term oneshot where it doesnt actually matter whether it is oneshot or two or whatever. Point is that squishies will have 0 chance to react and prevent themselves dying.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet you're complaining about being unable to target Masterminds because of their heavies, no complaining about stalkers, corrupters or dominators... now I wonder why you would be targetting Masterminds... 
(Brutes I would assume you simple intend to keep sufficient distance from to prevent them using their attacks)
This does seem to keep rearing it head all the time doesn't it. This thread will now be filled with a load of people agreeing that we should remove then and another load saying they should stay. 
I'm siding on the people who say they should stay, As i'm an empathy defender i've already lost half my powers as last time i check i cant heal a villain to death 
so with only a few attacks i rely on heavies to help kill anything villains/pillboxes/even run of the mill mobs.
Co-Leader of the Art Of War
www.artofwar-sg.info
[ QUOTE ]
Again its a PvP zone so you do get ganked and stuff does happen in it you really wont like...
[/ QUOTE ]
Mate, my problem is not getting ganked, oneshotting or 'other unpleasant things' as long as they are done by players. My problem is with these machines whose sole purpose is to allow grinding for big rewards and foil any real pvp in there.
Don't mistake this for general whining.
[ QUOTE ]
Awareness got nothing to do with it. To get kills I have to get close, and if those people arent moving far from their heavies theres not much chance.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, and I have to get in close to get kills - or rather, to stay alive - with my Kin Corruptor, and as a Blaster, you have a shedload more potential damage than I do. Deal with it, learn when to press forward and when to pull back - this is a skill, and obviously one that you do not possess at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
If the damn things could destroy each other just as easily I wouldnt complain. But if I send my heavy in alone it gets decimated by the masterminds/brutes. IF I try to take out the owner im oneshotted. Explain where is the Player vs Player part in here?
[/ QUOTE ]
Player with Heavy vs Player with Heavy? Jeez, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever, maybe if we set a hundred supercomputers at this problem for a hundred years we might be able to resolve this immensely difficult question.
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah? Then how come the LOWER level PvP zones don't have heavies? You'd think those are the places where new players learn pvp!
[/ QUOTE ]
IANAD, and I'd also point out that you get inexperienced PvPers at all levels.
[ QUOTE ]
RV happens to be the biggest thorn on my side, every time I go there I am enraged beyond anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Internet. Have you considered medical help?
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the damn things could destroy each other just as easily I wouldnt complain. But if I send my heavy in alone it gets decimated by the masterminds/brutes. IF I try to take out the owner im oneshotted. Explain where is the Player vs Player part in here?
[/ QUOTE ]
Player with Heavy vs Player with Heavy? Jeez, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever, maybe if we set a hundred supercomputers at this problem for a hundred years we might be able to resolve this immensely difficult question.
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you consider the possibility that the fight might not be balanced if certain ATs are better Heavy-holders than others?
Masterminds for instance are already strong enough.
[ QUOTE ]
IANAD
[/ QUOTE ]
What is this?
[ QUOTE ]
In exactly what way? You think it is beneficial for 'those without much PVP experience' to be continually oneshotted so badly they have to ask what hit them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about yourself here? I imagine most people, upon being killed by a Heavy - new or not - think "Damn Heavy" and then get up and go out again. It's that easy! 
What I'm saying is that your average PvP newbie is not going to stand a chance against a decent PvPer at full-strength - i.e. level 50. (The other zones have level limitations which actually do serve to redress the balance, especially with specialised builds - I know that most of my toons are significantly weaker in Sirens than they are in RV, in relative terms.) However, the Heavies can do as much damage to a hardcore PvPer as they can a complete PvP newbie - the element of uncertainty and randomness helps to keep battles, if not evenly matched, at least varied.
Point in case: I was duoing in RV and came across 3 people who I don't believe were experienced PvPers - at least, the first few instances we came across them they barely managed to land more than a few hits on us before chewing floor. About 20 minutes later they had Heavy'd up, and managed to take out my partner and had me down to red HP before I took them down. Would they have been able to do that without Heavies? I believe not. Would the fights instead have been a complete floor-wiping? I believe so. Did the presence of Heavies and other NPCs make for a more interesting experience? I believe so.
If getting taken out by a Heavy really bothers you that much, don't go into RV - or at least, don't go in there alone. Given your past experiences, I'd suggest taking someone who can grab Vengeance off you.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I am not a dev, I think.
[ QUOTE ]
Did you consider the possibility that the fight might not be balanced if certain ATs are better Heavy-holders than others?
[/ QUOTE ]
The only AT that has a real playstyle advantage from base is the MM - who should have pet commands down as everyday routine. Seeing as you can easily macro/bind some commands up - or even drag and drop them into your tray if you're lazy - it's not that great an advantage, it just means adapting your playstyle. As far as buffing pets goes, Heroes have the distinct advantage in two ATs that can provide Heavy buffs (Defenders, Controllers) as opposed to one on Villains (Corruptors).
Personally, if I get into a fight when I have control of a Heavy, I just let the bugger do its own thing - I can do far more sustained and reliable damage/debuffs than it ever can.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IANAD
[/ QUOTE ]
What is this?
[/ QUOTE ]
I Am Not A Dev.
Edit: Cookies for Stasis.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
[ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about yourself here? I imagine most people, upon being killed by a Heavy - new or not - think "Damn Heavy" and then get up and go out again. It's that easy!
[/ QUOTE ] To repeat the experience? Seriously, exactly what are they going to learn about PVP with heavies that they can't without them? Do you really think having them is beneficial? Theyd learn a shedload more if they had an experienced pvper IN THEIR TEAM rather than this stupid random kill generator.
[ QUOTE ]
the element of uncertainty and randomness helps to keep battles, if not evenly matched, at least varied.
[/ QUOTE ]
Element of uncertainty and randomness have no place in my textbook.
[ QUOTE ]
If getting taken out by a Heavy really bothers you that much, don't go into RV - or at least, don't go in there alone. Given your past experiences, I'd suggest taking someone who can grab Vengeance off you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Gee, didnt you notice from my first post that I was teamed?
[ QUOTE ]
To repeat the experience?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd suggest trying not to repeat the experience personally, but each to their own.
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, exactly what are they going to learn about PVP with heavies that they can't without them?
[/ QUOTE ]
I imagine the initial lesson they'd learn is that even they might not stand a chance alone, they have a (slim) chance of parity with a heavy. Then I'd expect they'd learn that teaming is a really good idea because heavies alone are no guarantee of success. Finally/Ideally, I'd expect them to become better at PvP and see Heavies as optional, not a requirement.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think having them is beneficial?
[/ QUOTE ]
When I'm outnumbered 4:1, yes? When I'm outmatching someone to the point of boredom, also yes.
[ QUOTE ]
Theyd learn a shedload more if they had an experienced pvper IN THEIR TEAM rather than this stupid random kill generator.
[/ QUOTE ]
That may as be, but I don't think Cryptic have the ability to code "experienced PvPer" into the game for people to team with, nor do I believe that NCSoft have the resources to place an appointed "experienced pvper" in the zone for the same purpose. If experience has taught one thing, it's that people tend to stick with people they know in PvP zones - myself no exception - so this statement is pretty futile.
[ QUOTE ]
Element of uncertainty and randomness have no place in my textbook.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then that's your problem, not a game problem.
[ QUOTE ]
Gee, didnt you notice from my first post that I was teamed? How exactly is that going to prevent all of this from happening?
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess I was too busy laughing to pick up on it. And if you can't see how teamwork can help you get past a difficult situation - in PvP or otherwise - then I don't think I can really help illuminate you further.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
I dislike heavies too for quite a few reasons but I won't go into details. Just know that you aren't alone
[ QUOTE ]
That may as be, but I don't think Cryptic have the ability to code "experienced PvPer" into the game for people to team with, nor do I believe that NCSoft have the resources to place an appointed "experienced pvper" in the zone for the same purpose. If experience has taught one thing, it's that people tend to stick with people they know in PvP zones - myself no exception - so this statement is pretty futile.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, are you saying that is necessary for me to team but not necessary for them to team?
My opinion is that heavies are about as useful in balancing pvp zones as drones. Except that drones don't wander around the zones randomly killing people.
Simply put: if you aren't sure whether to engage a player with a heavy, get your own heavy. Call it Robert (or Bob) and then notice that the heavy is too slow to be of any use versus the ranged players?
pew pew!
You could always use KB against the heavies so they're sitting on their butts. Heck before they increased the Doms' ranged heavy hitters' range from 20' to 40' I could joust with Thorn Barrage to get the heavy sitting on his butt for a worthwhile time. As you were on a team, I know that every single Archetype has access to powers with KB in them, so it's high possibility that there is at least one with such.
Sadly Hammerfall if it really annoys you that much, maybe you'd be better off staying out of RV, try Sirens or Warburg instead.
Not really the asnwer your looking for, but some people like them, some dont so i cant really see anything changing in there for a while
Co-Leader of the Art Of War
www.artofwar-sg.info
I dont find them too much trouble on my dom either but I can see how a brute might have problems if he tried to wade into combat. Maybe you can pick up tp foe and tp the heavy away round a corner. Or tp the owner and use something like air sup, intimidate, or web grenade, followed by some punching. On your blaster you could just get an empath friend then stand next to the heavy using the boombox emotes and eating cheezy puffs.
edit: I dont really care about heavies either way.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I was too busy laughing to pick up on it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I am incapable of laughing at other people's misfortune. Must be some genetic mutation or something. Therefore I don't like it being done to me.
Who hates heavies? Id like to have some PVP in RV sometimes like tonight in a team, having a fight with couple brutes, until bzzzt..click hospital. I mean whats the bloody point??!!!