Once i played one toon up to 50 thatll be it if all toons were capable of overcoming the same things. The type of balance id want is simply A beats B, B beats C and C beats A. Except lets not just have A,B and C.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
That's a Rock/Paper/Scissors type of balancing, but in this you'd choose which one you wanted and have to play that every time. So, not really very balanced at all.
"Balancing" would be: every character has a chance to defeat every other character, regardless of AT and powersets; and really, we have that already. True, Defenders are probably the ugly duckling here, as debuffs/buffs etc. can only do so much without some raw damage behind them. But get a decent Defender in a decent team, and they're sure to get a few kills in. I'm sure some could even go it solo.
Please note: these are the opinions of someone who enjoys a bit of PvPing every once in a while, but is not, by any means, an experienced PvPer.
Also note that this post is badly written as I've had little sleep.
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Sort of slows my PVP down a little don't you think Metatron?
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Let's take this one step at a time:
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Last time I was in RV; there were Stalkers I couldn't see;
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This is no more a problem in RV than in any other zone - pack yellows if you absolutely definitely have to beat a Stalker. At least in RV you can occasionally trail stalkers by tracking via Heavy to their next location.
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Heroes afking with GP's,
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You are fond of your little word, aren't you? 
Do you now consider Heavies to be a necessary PvP tool? I could have sworn you were arguing just before that they weren't - my faith in quantum mechanics is always renewed when I can observe one Weasel occupying two positions at the same time.
Speaking for myself, I've never required a Heavy to be able to engage in PvP in RV. People afking with Heavies can be a problem, and one that I think could be resolved with Blind's timer suggestion.
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Turrets in Alpha that could faceplant me in ten seconds
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Protip: Don't get that close to them.
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and Masterminds Leadershipping their GP's with Range.
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What does this even mean? "Leadershipping with Range"? Sounds like something you'd find in a Japanese medical surgery. 
Explanation plix
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Wow. You've found the weakness. It's a real shame that certain builds can't do that. Ever.
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Yeah you need to be a kinetic with Repel, or team with a sonic and get them to put repulsion on you. Or take whirlwind lol. Rubbish powers that no one ever takes but are actually good at keeping heavies off their feet.
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and Masterminds Leadershipping their GP's with Range.
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What does this even mean? "Leadershipping with Range"? Sounds like something you'd find in a Japanese medical surgery.
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Does it mean the MM are just staying really close so the Heavy gets the benefit of leadership?
Its not difficult to seperate someone from their heavy. Immobilise the heavy and get the player to chase you, or use teleport foe. Or have someone else with alot of knockback (Kinetic, Storm, Sonic etc.) to take on the heavy.
If you think they are going to one shot you, take some insp or get a team mate that can buff you.
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Does it mean the MM are just staying really close so the Heavy gets the benefit of leadership?
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I guess so, but anyone with Leadership can stay close to their Heavy - I'm confused as to why MMs were singled out.
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Its not difficult to seperate someone from their heavy...
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Don't forget that Slows are also highly effective.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Wow. You've found the weakness. It's a real shame that certain builds can't do that. Ever.
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Yeah you need to be a kinetic with Repel, or team with a sonic and get them to put repulsion on you. Or take whirlwind lol. Rubbish powers that no one ever takes but are actually good at keeping heavies off their feet.
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Air Sup works just as well (providing it connects, naturally), which is also available to anyone.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
Ok, one at a time.
Pack Yellows, That's along with my Blues(Counter End Drain), Greens(Keep me alive), Reds(Punchthrough), Purples(Stops me being 1.5 shotted) and BreakFrees(As I can't get hold defence) that you can't buy in zone is it?
Afking with GP's. Some heroes/villains do that. Strangely enough some people go into RV to turretwhore; that breaks the balance of the sides. GP's ARE necessary for most people to take down the Turrents, but really not for PvP. See, the Weasel Particle is only displaying one side at once.
Turrets can hit me at Sniper Range. Now as I have to get past them, or at least shoot them, that sort of breaks the possibility of staying out of range, especially if said GP is actually capturing them.
Leadership with Range : Most MM's take Leadership due to their pets. Now if Antithetix is in there, for example, I can expect to see Assault/Tactics/and something Dark and bubbly on the GP; making it harder. Something that rarely happens with normal Enemy fights in PvE; due to players not being the AI morons.
So, we can do this, this and this to beat them with these powers (Airsup etc.); Forgive me, but AirSup is PB Range, against a GP that can 1.5shot me at PB range; and if we add the Defenders powers in; we can have Darkest Night, Fulcrum Shift, Speed Boost, Accelerate Metabolism, Phantom Army, TP Foe etc. protecting it; before we even think what the other team have.
Increase Density, Speed Boost also defeats most ideas; but there's not many Kin Def/Corr is there?
Whilst the Timer idea is a good one, how do certain ATs/builds actually complete the objectives without one; whilst certain builds/AT's can tank the RVAV's with one?
To take Stase's suggestion (Ta Hun ), if I've only got a Scissors to level 40 and I'm playing against a team of Rocks+Paper; I can grab my PaperGP and wipe the floor with them.
Any Rocks that come at me can be wrapped, any Papers can be cut whilst they draw with the BIG paper.
Especially if there's no Scissors to be found on the other side.
Sounds fair to me. Everything has a counter and nothing is unbeatable.
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Sounds fair to me. Everything has a counter and nothing is unbeatable.
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Problem is that said counter takes 40+ levels to build. So are you suggesting that if you're planning on going into RV; you need a 40+ toon that can Scissor the Paper?
No that would take too long and isn't practical. You either find someone that can beat them already or adjust your tactics so you are more like scissors than rock. Thats just it btw, its Rock, Paper, Scissors not RPS and Acid.
Fair enough Striker; can you give me a way for the following characters to take down a GP that is with a Mastermind; any variety.
If any buffs are available from their team-mates; I'll apply similar buffs to the GP/MM.
a) Energy/Energy Blaster.
b) Inv/SS Tanker
c) Empathy/Mind Controller
d) Dark/FF Defender
e) Claw/Invuln Scrapper
We'll assume the MM sees you at long range from Tactics/Assault; and has 6 minions out.
In all honesty: tp foe MM and your attack chain of choice, preferably starting with mez.
Why did this degenerate to random musings about pvp again >_>.
I think Weasel said one of my points earlier, you need dont need heavies for pvp, they are for the turrets which = xp/prestige/inf rewards. If anything, they are detrimental to the actual pvp.
I am most annoyed by the fact that heavies kill the PVP when there arent many players in the zone.. Which is the case 99% of the time here on defiant.
Sorry Hammer, I was just trying to get Stryker and Syn away from
"Well I can do it with this character, you must be doing it wrong"
I could easily take a certain build into RV and maim GP's; but certain other builds can't.
And TP Foe is a REALLY horrible power. First against the wall when the revoloution comes.
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d) Dark/FF Defender
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Does Detention Field work on the Heavies?
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
I've been giving this matter a little thought and I'm not sure that the Heavies (or indeed the Pillboxes) are actually the problem with RV PvP. I think that the zone was designed with a zone population in mind much higher than what we get on average in the EU. There are only two (or is it three?) Heavies per side. I can imagine that if the zone was a lot busier Heavies would cease to be a problem as a large team would easily overcome even a fully buffed up Heavy.
Does anyone here have any experience playing in RV on the US servers? I'm guessing that it is a lot busier? Are Heavies such an issue with a larger population in the zone?
I'm fairly certain that RV wasn't designed with the smallish EU PvP community in mind and as a result Heavies severly unbalance our experience.
Guys, I'm gald to see that this thread seems to be clawing its way back towards civility, so can we please try to keep it that way?
Thanks.
Please don't think the Syn/Weasel/Ravenswing hostility is actual hostility Bridger It's just us.
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Please don't think the Syn/Weasel/Ravenswing hostility is actual hostility Bridger It's just us.
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I, on the other hand, have been dead serious from the start.
Oh I'm serious, just we tend to know when each other are using fake hostility to make a point.
RV is like three simultaneous games being played in one zone; and often one gets in the way of another.
(Farm, Control Objectives, P+EvP+E fight)
Just my opinion but a fix for this is to reduce the level of the Heavies and perhaps the turrets as well.
Also ... make the Heavies non-buffable.
Fixed. Next?
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
I dont see why you cant grab your own heavy and use it to kill the opposing heavy owner, there is usually a free one around. This is far less severe than an empath/blaster duo exloiting bugs in CM, but no one gives a monkeys about that as they are likely to be playing the blaster.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Right after I drain them of endurance and use them as a football.
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Honestly the heavies are to strong and because you can be one shotted by them, heavily tip the balence in one way or another
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Yes Heavies are too strong, takes me 2 minutes to defeat them with my Defender.
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Wow. You've found the weakness. It's a real shame that certain builds can't do that. Ever.
Certain builds can whomp GP. Fact.
Certain builds can only get whomped because they rely on things that GP's are strong against. Fact.
This isn't to do with whether you can be leet in PvP, it's to do with certain builds/AT's having small chance against certain builds (gameplay) and NO chance against GP's.
If you can take down a GP (with sidekicked Hero/Villain) with ANY AT, then it would be a fair comparison.
If Mr EM Brute can kill +7's, that's all very nice; but it doesn't really help when Mr Fire Tank can't kill the +4 objectives; and that's without the GP throwing him across the zone.
Now, what's Mr Fire Tank; or Ms Emp Controller, or Mrs AR blaster to do?
This really isn't a difficult point to get across, why are people not seeing it?