Where did you read that?
I know dom holds are shorter, but as far as I know they mag is the same.
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Dominator holds are Mag 3 and 80% of the controller duration (except when Domination is active). I do think duration could be the same without overpowering doms in any way.
Doms are in NO way overpowered and IMHO they are probably the only AT that still needs a buff in some way.
I can see no reason for the holds to be less than controllers, yeah they have more offence (but no containment which can munch mobs in seconds) but controllers ahve buffs that keep them alive while the poor dom will just fall over.
Doms need work imo.
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Dominator holds are fine, same magnitude as controllers, 80% duration, with domination active, double the magnatude of a controller, 160% duration.
We now also get the Break Free effect with domination.
All that is needed now is a 10% increase in base hp and AV mez resistance made more predictable.
I really should do something about this signature.
Yeah, HP boost to Blaster levels would be great. I was thinking of a Dull Pain thing when you pop Domination, as you become a weapon of destruction after all!
The dull pain component wouldn't have a heal, otherwise people would use it to heal themselves (duh!) so Frostwork-style of a boost would fit in.
And and... because the 75% boost in damage isn't as flashy as in the lower levels (as it is off the base damage, not total damage), maybe a scaling damage boost? Starting from 75% boost from level 1 and increasing as you level?
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And and... because the 75% boost in damage isn't as flashy as in the lower levels (as it is off the base damage, not total damage), maybe a scaling damage boost? Starting from 75% boost from level 1 and increasing as you level?
[/ QUOTE ]Or a lower boost, but to base damage instead of a damage buff?
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Dominator holds are fine, same magnitude as controllers, 80% duration, with domination active, double the magnatude of a controller, 160% duration.
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Domination is a 50% increase in duration,so it's only 120% of controller duration.
And double magnitude not for the full duration,only for the original 80% controller duration.
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Dominator holds are fine, same magnitude as controllers, 80% duration, with domination active, double the magnatude of a controller, 160% duration.
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Domination is a 50% increase in duration,so it's only 120% of controller duration.
And double magnitude not for the full duration,only for the original 80% controller duration.
[/ QUOTE ]I've always seen it quoted as double duration and magnitude, do you actually have some proof to back up your claims?
Way it works is when domination is up a second mez is applied on top of the first with double the duration, so the magnatude is only doubled for half the time in effect.
However it is damage that is +50% (base).
I really should do something about this signature.
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Way it works is when domination is up a second mez is applied on top of the first with double the duration, so the magnatude is only doubled for half the time in effect.
However it is damage that is +50% (base).
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This is how it works. The base magnitude of dominator holds is the same as with controllers.
And doms need a buff.
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Dominator holds are fine, same magnitude as controllers, 80% duration, with domination active, double the magnatude of a controller, 160% duration.
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Domination is a 50% increase in duration,so it's only 120% of controller duration.
And double magnitude not for the full duration,only for the original 80% controller duration.
[/ QUOTE ]I've always seen it quoted as double duration and magnitude, do you actually have some proof to back up your claims?
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Prima guide and _Castle_'s explanations here :
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Opening the handy spreadsheet to a random control power in the Dominator section, I see Cinders.
Cinders has 4 Hold entries.
1) Hold vs Critters. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
2) Hold vs Players. It is Duration Scale 6, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. It is subject to Suppression. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous.
3) A second Hold vs Critters, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 12, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 3. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
4) A second Hold vs Players, which stacks with the first one. It is Duration Scale 8, which is affected by Enhancements, AT mods and Level Scale. It has a fixed Magnitude of 4. The Mag increasing in the Guide is erroneous. This entry only activates when Domination is active.
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TBH, i don't think Doms need that much of a buff. Seriously, maybe domination should be altered to make them the UBER FOR 90 SECONDS power, or else they may need a slight increse otherwise, but for villains overall, I think doms fill the controlling cap satisfacory from my experience
All I want is Blaster hp and I will be happy.
I really should do something about this signature.
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And and... because the 75% boost in damage isn't as flashy as in the lower levels (as it is off the base damage, not total damage), maybe a scaling damage boost? Starting from 75% boost from level 1 and increasing as you level?
[/ QUOTE ]Or a lower boost, but to base damage instead of a damage buff?
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Wouldn't that need some serious game changes to implement in the core code, whilst a damage buff is already in there and it works.
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And and... because the 75% boost in damage isn't as flashy as in the lower levels (as it is off the base damage, not total damage), maybe a scaling damage boost? Starting from 75% boost from level 1 and increasing as you level?
[/ QUOTE ]Or a lower boost, but to base damage instead of a damage buff?
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Wouldn't that need some serious game changes to implement in the core code, whilst a damage buff is already in there and it works.
[/ QUOTE ]It wouldn't, really, there are already other powers that change base damage.
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And and... because the 75% boost in damage isn't as flashy as in the lower levels (as it is off the base damage, not total damage), maybe a scaling damage boost? Starting from 75% boost from level 1 and increasing as you level?
[/ QUOTE ]Or a lower boost, but to base damage instead of a damage buff?
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Wouldn't that need some serious game changes to implement in the core code, whilst a damage buff is already in there and it works.
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There are level scaling Defenses (i.e. SR) so I think adding level scaling damage boost. Yes, there is a damage buff already in there and it does work, in it's full effect it's at the TO levels when you get to feel the 75% boost directly, making you able to 1-shot minions. Levels 30- are not the case, as you should have SOs by then, and when you have SOs the damage boost you get from Domination feels small because it's off base damage.
Controllers, who are supposed to be the low damage AT, get straightforward 100% more damage in PvE and 200% in PvP, and that's not even off base damage, that's off REAL damage.
Etc, if a Controller does 120 with propel (slotted with SOs) he will do 240 in PvE and 360 in PvP.
If a Dominator does 60 damage with Ripper (unmodified with enhancements), he will do 105 damage while under Domination. If he has slotted the attack with 3 SOs, he will do 118 damage without Domination. With Domination that damage will be 162 damage. That is 38% percent boost to damage by then. It is working! Woo! My damage is just laughable. Blasters say "lol still taking long?" and then just fix me in 3 shots. But, if Domination was your damage x 1.75 = total damage then we'd do alot more, and actually be significant threats in the manners of damage, y'know, near Blaster levels.
If you think that's ridiculous look at Controllers with their "low" damage 2-shotting people with Propel. "Yeah ok that's fair!"
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Controllers, who are supposed to be the low damage AT, get straightforward 100% more damage in PvE and 200% in PvP, and that's not even off base damage, that's off REAL damage.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, containment is 100% boost to base damage, which means it's also a 100% boost to the damage after all buffs have been applied.
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Controllers, who are supposed to be the low damage AT, get straightforward 100% more damage in PvE and 200% in PvP, and that's not even off base damage, that's off REAL damage.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, containment is 100% boost to base damage, which means it's also a 100% boost to the damage after all buffs have been applied.
[/ QUOTE ]Biggest.. contradiction... ever.
You just said it's base... but not base?
And I think Doms don't ned blaster HP! they are not blasters afterall, what they need is something that makes them less 'i die in 3 seconds if i use soft control'esque. with a brute you can avoid being squished, with a healer you can get healed, but there are a lot of duos and smaller teams that the doms get mashed in when they aggro in n AoE. In larger, balanced teams they seem to fare better.
RSF wise i hear they need some help, so help would be welcome. I'm never sure these days whether people are whinging or whether ATs are actually suffering, my dom seems ok without any real minmaxing but then I've also seen him contribute little to teams that are minmaxed to hell :/. But don't all minmaxed teams just AoE everything and every1 feels useless :/ meh
Plight
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Controllers, who are supposed to be the low damage AT, get straightforward 100% more damage in PvE and 200% in PvP, and that's not even off base damage, that's off REAL damage.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, containment is 100% boost to base damage, which means it's also a 100% boost to the damage after all buffs have been applied.
[/ QUOTE ]Biggest.. contradiction... ever.
You just said it's base... but not base?
[/ QUOTE ]No, I said base. It double the base damage, and since end damage is Base damage*Damage buffs, it ends up doubling the end damage because of that.
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Controllers, who are supposed to be the low damage AT, get straightforward 100% more damage in PvE and 200% in PvP, and that's not even off base damage, that's off REAL damage.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually, containment is 100% boost to base damage, which means it's also a 100% boost to the damage after all buffs have been applied.
[/ QUOTE ]Biggest.. contradiction... ever.
You just said it's base... but not base?
[/ QUOTE ]No, I said base. It double the base damage, and since end damage is Base damage*Damage buffs, it ends up doubling the end damage because of that.
[/ QUOTE ]I think I see where you're going. Originally you said containment was a boost of 100% to base damage, it is a 100% boost to final damage after enhancements,which I maintain isn't the same. It's like saying build up is 100% boost to base damage but that it boosts final damage, which it doesn't.
I cba to argue it really and have to leave work soon, so:
base + BU + SOs = 100%base + 100%base + 100%base = 300%base (assuming SOs = 100)
[base + containment + SOs = 100%base + 100%base + 100%base = 300%base] not= [(base + SOs)containment = (100%base + 100%base)2 = 400%base]
I think after 3,000 rereads I see that we were both coming at it from the school of not really reading what we were on about. As a blaster I'm familiar with assigning BU as a 100% extra damage, which it is, but it doesn't actually affect base damage, it could be said that containment does, but it could be said that it affects final damage. Due to the multipliers and the relatively simple formulae involved it doesn't matter which way you look at it.
Very long, borin story short: I think we have better things to do.
Plight
So in conclusion; Trollers have better Holds, Damage output and debuff capabilities than Doms? Hmmm...
Ah, but they dont have Ice Sword Circle, no one else does HAH
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See, BU is a damage buff. Damage buffs are added together (enhancements are also damage buffs), and then used as a multiplier for base damage. Containment however isn't a damage buff, but it directly doubles base daamge. This means it'll always also double the end damage, while a 100% damage buff won't if there are other damage buffs affecting the char as well.
At the end of the day, I think dominators should do more damage than controllers. Until they do, its bleh time.
From what I've gathered on what's been posted on these boards, the Holds etc. for Controllers are registered at Mag 3, whilst Dominator's are only a Mag 2.
If this is the case, why is it so? I realise Dominators have direct-attacks as a Secondary, but these to me pale in significance if you are personally unable to contain aggro properly whilst you are using them.
Both Controllers and Dominators have 'control' primaries, so why the reduction in the Dominator's one effectiveness? I personally can't see a boost to Mag 3 being game-breaking, although others may find a way to point out it could be.
Simply put, would an upgrade from Mag 2 to Mag 3 be plausible and wanted?