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People hate them because they don't know how to beat them.
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sooo true
yet another winging post by someone who has found out that there characters are not as invincible as they thought. there are simple ways to fight stalkers
TACTICS PEOPLE!
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4. I think its Quilty who brought up the Stalker running comment. I am sorry are you having a laugh? Would you honestly expect a Blaster to stay still if he doesnt kill you? Mate if we did that we would be wiped on the floor.
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my main pvp hero is a blasters, designed as a stalker detector, and ive had times where ive been outnumber by several villains, got AS'd once and the other hits came, why did i stay? 4 words, Defiance is your friend, especially on fire blast. yesterday for example, went after a stalker i could see, hit him a few times, few more popped up, got taken to very low life, used blaze, defiance was close to full, nearest stalker went down, used fireball and blast on another, down goes another one, as hasten is running, blaze is quickly recharging, so down go caltrops, web grenade, used elec gloves temp power, then fire blast, down goes number 3, at this point rest of team show up, blaze is ready, boom, 4th villain goes down, i couldnt beleive that 1, i lasted that long on full defiance, altho it has happened once before, and 2 that i managed to take down 3(/4) villains in quick succession, most likely pure luckm but im happy with that.
Six whats with the agressivness mate? Chill out a lil.
If you cant see a stalker with IR Goggles-The Leadership Pool-etc. I suggest you turn your monitor brightness up.
K
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Six whats with the agressivness mate? Chill out a lil.
If you cant see a stalker with IR Goggles-The Leadership Pool-etc. I suggest you turn your monitor brightness up.
K
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The hidden ones I can see, I can see perfectly well.
Not aggressive, just pointing things out. Isn't it allowed to make a strong argument? 
Anyways, I wish I didn't bother with this, because I have stopped PvPing already. I don't expect anyone to grieve over this, but a couple of villains should breathe a sigh of relief. 
j/k
Anyway, I have fun with my stalker PvE when I can find a decent team. Don't plan to bring it to PvP, but don't really understand the "weak in PvE" point.
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...
Think hating stalkers will soon be replaced with hating to play em tbh.
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Well that's at least a positive progression
People are getting carried away trying to spec in defences against one AT that as luck would have it has more than enough against it already.
Know your stuff. Today I somehow was able to see 3 (!) stalkers trying to AS me at once and I managed to use thunderclap (it doesn't do any damage, waa waa waa, stone tanks hate it, waa waa) and bugger them off for more than enough time than some leadership buff and hoping I punch one of them with a slow animation attack.
Having something that can fight with a few inspirations a decent team (any given wanderer in sirens who's a regular will do, they're all good) is better than something that's unfocused and tries too hard to be something it can't be.
Know your build - lol, yesterday I pointed out the PB on the team would be a good tank because we had 4 trollers at the time (the inherent, the best thing of the epic archtypes (I don't have one yet! lol) I think is the best aspect - mez protection! Damage increase, or something else that gives you uberness =) ) and he was 
Also, having the privledge to buy inspirations 20 clicks away from siren's is amazing 
Useful if there's an on going battle in Siren's.
Jackhobos post is a good one; stalkers (along with scrappers) are the easy mode of the game. They're both insanely pve and pvp friendly and with anyone with any skill they're more than enough.
Try playing blasters, controllers, a defender (other than an empath), tanks or something else to give yourself a challenge wimps 
I'm planning on leveling my Stalker (currently at lvl13) up so that I can see from the other side. She'll be [censored] in PvP because I am at the helm so to speak. 
But no I don't hate them, in fact I don't hate any AT in the game. Though I won't play a Kheldian again as I can't bear them, and I'm not a big fan of Blasters.
Some of the people who I have met over the last year and a bit on the other hand I wouldn't give the time of day to. And that is irespective of their AT or build.
People make stalkers nasty not their powers.
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Know your build - lol, yesterday I pointed out the PB on the team would be a good tank because we had 4 trollers at the time (the inherent, the best thing of the epic archtypes (I don't have one yet! lol) I think is the best aspect - mez protection! Damage increase, or something else that gives you uberness =) ) and he was
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Know your opponents build and how he plays is a better one theres a blaster, lets call him fraz () and i have played against him for some time now and I know pretty much what hes going to do and when hes going to do it then I just drop in and kill him
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Stalkers are villians, villians are nasty and use nasty tricks to kill you. Big supprise there. However i think stalkers means of damage is badly ballenced. I think AS should do a persentage damage but no more than say 80%, thier attacks after that should do more damage to balance.
The reason i feel this is because if a stalker 1 hit kills someone they have no time to react or do anything, people want to have a fight use thier powers and win or loose, even with 80% it will still make you jump and through you into a frantic situation of scrambling for buttons, but you can pull it back, that would just make a hard fight but like i said nobody said fighting villians would be easy.
As they are if you want to do serious PvP you need to tie some powers into your build aimed at stalker spotting.
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Stalkers are villians, villians are nasty and use nasty tricks to kill you.
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This is a game, and as a game, it should be balanced for all the players. And using the excuse "I'm a villain, so I'm allowed to be unfair" gets old real fast.
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that would just make a hard fight but like i said nobody said fighting villians would be easy.
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We're not looking for an easy fight, we're looking for a FAIR fight.
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As they are if you want to do serious PvP you need to tie some powers into your build aimed at stalker spotting.
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I got all the powers I can get that will give me +perception on my blaster, and I'm still WAY WAY WAY short of seeing a stalker with hide+stealth. I've sacrificed a bunch of things, just so I was supposed to be able to spot stalkers (according to the ppl on the forums), but still it isn't enough.
Give everyone a fighting chance, I dunno about the rest of these ppl, but that's all I'm asking.
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Stalkers are villians, villians are nasty and use nasty tricks to kill you.
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This is a game, and as a game, it should be balanced for all the players. And using the excuse "I'm a villain, so I'm allowed to be unfair" gets old real fast.
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that would just make a hard fight but like i said nobody said fighting villians would be easy.
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We're not looking for an easy fight, we're looking for a FAIR fight.
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As they are if you want to do serious PvP you need to tie some powers into your build aimed at stalker spotting.
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I got all the powers I can get that will give me +perception on my blaster, and I'm still WAY WAY WAY short of seeing a stalker with hide+stealth. I've sacrificed a bunch of things, just so I was supposed to be able to spot stalkers (according to the ppl on the forums), but still it isn't enough.
Give everyone a fighting chance, I dunno about the rest of these ppl, but that's all I'm asking.
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That last comment is the problem. No one AT is equal (although some are more better placed than others). I read/listen to all these talks about stalkers being overpowered but I play other villain ATs and feel that it is just sour grapes. I would love for my corruptor or dom to have a fair chance but they dont. Easily taken out the game, but I just get on with it. I really wish everyone else would to. If want to get anywhere then you do have to team. If i dont want to be held all the time I need someone who can break holds. Trust me when I say you wont get a fair fight. There are lots of miss matches and you cannot create a build to do anything about it. You can however create a team which will help reduce the imbalance and help raise your chances.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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That last comment is the problem. No one AT is equal (although some are more better placed than others). I read/listen to all these talks about stalkers being overpowered but I play other villain ATs and feel that it is just sour grapes. I would love for my corruptor or dom to have a fair chance but they dont. Easily taken out the game, but I just get on with it. I really wish everyone else would to. If want to get anywhere then you do have to team. If i dont want to be held all the time I need someone who can break holds. Trust me when I say you wont get a fair fight. There are lots of miss matches and you cannot create a build to do anything about it. You can however create a team which will help reduce the imbalance and help raise your chances.
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1) The fact that there's no other AT's in the game that is more hated, and for good reasons, should be a warning sign.
2) There's no other AT's in the game that REQUIRES one of a select (very) few powersets to be countered.
3) There's no other AT's in the game that don't allow the 'victim' a chance to fight back.
4) The fact that you need a TEAM to take out ONE stalker tells me that stalkers are overpowered.
I've gotten killed by every villain AT there are, but none as often as stalkers. I've killed every villain AT there are, but none as rarely as stalkers. I've tried every tactic I can come up with, and many I've got here on the forums, and the fact remains that since I can't see the stalker untill I'm already dead, there's nothing I can do. apart from running three medium inspirations continually, and having to zone out every 10 minutes to buy more yellows. This, in my opinion is not a viable tactic.
My solution would be to have Hide exclusive from other stealth powers, have Hide Enhancers to enhance the hide power AND have perception enhancers to go in Tactics. This would give everyone a fair fight, and wouldn't in the least ruin the stalker AT.
Happy he who PvP's with the knowledge that he is not immortal and with the realisation that he will not be able to defeat every build he faces.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
[ QUOTE ]
My solution would be to have Hide exclusive from other stealth powers, have Hide Enhancers to enhance the hide power AND have perception enhancers to go in Tactics. This would give everyone a fair fight, and wouldn't in the least ruin the stalker AT.
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And how does having to it so everyone can see stalkers quite easily not break that AT. There are ways of stopping stalkers and having it so everyone can see one is just stupid. There ability to use Hide is what makes stalkers and by ripping this from a stalker is breaking the AT.
1)I dont think stalkers are the most hated AT. That is your opinion. Its how people play the AT which probably makes it more annoying and hated. Im talking about running away (which by the nature of the AT, stalkers have a good advantage in that department).
Those that I know that pvp dont think anything of stalkers. They know how to deal with them and limit the opportunites for stalkers to get easy kills.
2)One word controllers. Now there is a set available for me to choose (acrobatics) but doesnt really do much for me. 2 applications of a hold (if I am lucky) and I am held. Sure I can use inspirations but then they only last so long. How do you propose you counter them on your own? For a very long time controllers have been seen the gods of pvp and when placed against stalkers this is still the case. Stalkers are not a patch on a decent controller!
3)Depends on how you class fight back. I can fight back against blasters for about 2 seconds before they kills me. I can fight back against other ATs but I dont stand a chance such as scrappers. Now my options are either fight or to run. If I was sensible it would mean I be running off everytime (which aint really fun).
4)So because stalkers dont need to team you think that applies to all the other ATs? If any other AT wants to take out a hero they to probably need to team. Notice I say probably - there are various combos of ATs that dont require a team (and this also applies to spotting stalkers).
Anyway moving back to 4, teaming means you dont just take out 1 stalker, you pratically take them all out. Teaming thus then results in stalkers being completly underpowered! You dont even need to see them to take them out of the game - few caltraps there, an area of affect such as hot feet and you are laughing.
Why do people hate stalkers:
People hate having fights and then watching there opponent then run off. This is not just a stalker attribute but due to (most) stalkers hit and run nature, this happens alots and stalkers have a higher chance for escape compared to other ATs. Thus stalkers are often (wrongly) seen as cowards which in itself creates resentment.
Ignorance. People assume because they cannot see them then there is nothing they can do to counter a stalker. This is infact untrue and various tactics and measures have been mentioned on these forums. People see stalkers as opportuntists who AT dont need any skill to play (again which is wrong to some degree but has been discussed earlier in this thread).
No chance for escape. If you cant see the danger approaching you dont really have much chance for escape. If you are being hunted and have remained stationery for just a moment you have opend yourself up for an AS. Now in most cases this be the end for a squishy as it only usually takes a follow up hit to take you down. Being taken down in such a mannor is frustrating as you are unable to make much of an impact on the encounter. The only real way to stop this happening is to stop the stalker getting in such a position to do this (which actually requires you to be on the ball and prepared) and often in a team. With stalkers just being reactive is not enough, you have to be proactive which is something that is not often expected when fighting other ATs.
Stalkers present a new challanges and alot of people have either not adapted or are not prepared to which results in more cries of we hate stalkers. Why should we have to change to deal with the threat of one AT (the way we play and our mentality)? I would assume this thinking creates alot of hate towards the poor stalker. I dont have the answer to that question though, you have to speak to the devs on that.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
I would have thought that a Stalkers elusiveness just increases the satisfaction when you do pound one fo them into the ground.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And how does having to it so everyone can see stalkers quite easily not break that AT. There are ways of stopping stalkers and having it so everyone can see one is just stupid. There ability to use Hide is what makes stalkers and by ripping this from a stalker is breaking the AT.
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Everyone doesn't take the leadership pool power. In fact, very few does. If you take it, you sacrifice something else to get those powers. I've had several other suggestions which, same as this one, doesn't break the AT. Also, if you make the stealth part of Hide enhancable, stalkers don't have to choose the concealment pool to get an advantage. Also, having to spend slots on both End reduc and perception on tactics makes it nessecary to sacrifice even more to be able to see stalkers. This makes it possible for those who WANT to sacrifice something to become "stalker-hunters". They lose one advantage over someone to gain an advantage over someone else.
Considering all the tools in the stalker powersets I think this is only fair, as there are no other ATs with that many tricks up their sleeve.
Maybe it could be made up for by making some new pool power sets. I think it's high time for this anyway. With more powerpools to choose from, even fewer people will get the Leadership pool.
This isn't a nerf to stalkers, it's another way of getting the uber stealth power. The drawback is that it's possible for any AT/powerset combo to be able to spot stalkers.
The problem for me is to break the stalker AT all you need to do is take one power from the leadership pool. So thats taking one less power in exchange for having the potential to see all stalkers. Too me that sounds like a destroying an AT. Look at it this way, would you be happy if I could lose an attack for a power that would make me resistant to holds or give me super strength defence?
Since the introduction of ED many people have lots of slots free. I even know some people that still 6 slot (same enhancement type) because they cant see anywhere else to really put them. Putting enhancable perception enhancements into tactics is thus not really much of a sacrifice.
I can see where you are trying to go but personally I dont think that would work (currently with how things are). I wouldn't know if having a greater power pool choice would be a good thing or a bad thing. One benefit would be more diverse characters but deciding on what you are going to miss out on might be a very hard decision.
I have read various suggestions before and the one to me that is less of a nerf is perhaps a kind of predator concealement shimmer where every so often you can make out someone out. Anyway going slightly off topic ...
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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Stalkers are villians, villians are nasty and use nasty tricks to kill you.
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Oh C'mon. That excuse is lamer than a legless camel. EVERYone uses those tactics. Even Paladins in D&D are allowed to throw sand in your face.
The problem in a lot of PvP is that it NEEDS dirty tactics to win easily, and they're the same tactics that get you called a (vigorous onanist) across broadcast.
De-Toggling, Phasing, Hiding, TP'ing are all 'Dirty Tricks' and they're hardly just for villains.
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1) The fact that there's no other AT's in the game that is more hated, and for good reasons, should be a warning sign.
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Often said but bearing in mind how few of the server population actually posts on the boards and even then there isn't a consensus. I would love to know where you get the idea that Stalkers are the most hated. We all know you hate them, but isn't what you are saying.
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2) There's no other AT's in the game that REQUIRES one of a select (very) few powersets to be countered.
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Unlike most other ATs you can at least get powers that help against them, take holds for instance, they drop all your toggles, and very few of us have any way of reducing the effect. +Perception can at least be taken from a power pool. Holds can only be broken from inspirations.
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3) There's no other AT's in the game that don't allow the 'victim' a chance to fight back.
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So when I'm held, slept, telekinessed, sniped or terrorized I have a way of getting away? In open Team PvP any melee class that has any of these happen is as good as dead.
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4) The fact that you need a TEAM to take out ONE stalker tells me that stalkers are overpowered.
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Well obviously with your uberness, you no problem hitting through PFF/Bubbles, Elude, MoG, Storm, Telekinesis and a range of other powers, that either slow you, keep you away or in other ways prevent you from killing the person. The rest of don't try and solo the annoying storm controllers we get a team.
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I've killed every villain AT there are, but none as rarely as stalkers.
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This must be you or your build then, I know two PvPer blasters, Jag and TG both of whom seem to have little issue killing any villain AT (MM in PFF seems to stymie both.)
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...there's nothing I can do. apart from running three medium inspirations continually, and having to zone out every 10 minutes to buy more yellows. This, in my opinion is not a viable tactic.
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Yet for me to face alot of the other 'non-overpowered' ATs I'm expected to run perma breakfree?
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My solution would be to have Hide exclusive from other stealth powers, have Hide Enhancers to enhance the hide power AND have perception enhancers to go in Tactics. This would give everyone a fair fight, and wouldn't in the least ruin the stalker AT.
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So basically you don't want stalkers nerfed at all you want the type of enhancements they have changed but otherwise they will have exactly the same powers and abilities that they have now? So why bother?
A buff to tactics might be the answer but I have little problem seeing Stalkers close up without any +perception that I know of, sure I can't always react quickly enough to avoid death, but its not the visiblity thats at issue there, its my old persons brain. And while I wouldn't say that you are the only person with this issue you are the only one I have read recently who complains about the complete inability to see stalkers.
A couple of people have quoted me on my line about stalkers being villians, nobody has mentioned what i said after that about stalkers damage being wrong, i hate stalkers for when they 1 hit kill my icle troller. However before this thread a stalker was the only AT i was not going to play, now i am going to have one of every AT. i am gonna have a katana/nin stalker i think and after i AS i am gonna stay till i either win or loose
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Often said but bearing in mind how few of the server population actually posts on the boards and even then there isn't a consensus. I would love to know where you get the idea that Stalkers are the most hated. We all know you hate them, but isn't what you are saying.
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Just look at the amount of stalker threads there are. And I haven't even started one for months.
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Unlike most other ATs you can at least get powers that help against them, take holds for instance, they drop all your toggles, and very few of us have any way of reducing the effect. +Perception can at least be taken from a power pool. Holds can only be broken from inspirations.
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That's what I mean. The secondary effect of powerpool buffs should be bigger. like the mez protection from acrobatics (or whatever it is, or give it mez protection), defence buff from combat jumping hover and stealth, whatever it is you get from tough and weave. as well as having the hide power enhanceable for stealth.
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Well obviously with your uberness, you no problem hitting through PFF/Bubbles, Elude, MoG, Storm, Telekinesis and a range of other powers, that either slow you, keep you away or in other ways prevent you from killing the person. The rest of don't try and solo the annoying storm controllers we get a team.
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Now you'r just pretending. right? If I can see the opponent, and he isn't able to one/two hit kill me, then then game is still on. With a stalker, they disappear if you don't hit them for a short while, and once that happens your in the hosp before you know it. And really, I don't mind the one hit kills, OR the two hit ones. I just want to be able to prevent it from happening from every stalker who can pick the stealth powerpool. because that's ALL they need to be completely impervious to my elite perception skillz. That means every stalker out there with an ounce of inteligence.
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Yet for me to face alot of the other 'non-overpowered' ATs I'm expected to run perma breakfree?
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With a stronger effect from Acrobatics you wouldn't need so many breakfrees, but probably some in case you meet someone who's slotted their powers properly.
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So why bother?
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Your really not paying attention, are you? j/k
With stronger effect on the pool power buffs, and more to choose from, you'll get the sense that you are sacrificing something in order to get something else. That way only people who want's to be good at hunting stalkers will pick the leadership pool, slot that right, and stand a greater chance of spotting stalkers. and since I didn't pick the SJ pool so I got Acrobatics, I'm very voulnerable to mez. Or I don't have any defence because I haven't got CJ hover or Stealth. Then you make up some more, and you got a diverse system, that's flexible and makes truely unique characters.
Sorry. this should be in the suggestions forum, but whatever.
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The problem for me is to break the stalker AT all you need to do is take one power from the leadership pool. So thats taking one less power in exchange for having the potential to see all stalkers.
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Potential is the key word here. Its a commonly noted fact that tactics alone is rarely enough to spot a stalker. At least, from my experience of CoX that is. Also, its not just taking one power from the leadership powerpool, its taking two. You need to have another power prior to it, right? Thats losing two powers, just to get a boost to perception that is noted to be not enough to see stalkers with hide+stealth.
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Too me that sounds like a destroying an AT. Look at it this way, would you be happy if I could lose an attack for a power that would make me resistant to holds or give me super strength defence?
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You mean like the mez resist toggles/clicks that people respec into, that often render my abilities as a controller useless? The ones that can be raised right after wearing out/being knocked off? The ones that even if I manage to stack through, a single breakfree renders you immune to me for long enough to raise them again? Yeah, controllers do have their cheap-and-cheesy side too, but we dont have it easy either. As for super-strength defense, people often take their strongest defensive toggles regardless. Pool powers on their own, arent very strong. They can be useful, but they arent particularly strong.
It still seems to be the hide/detect arms race that bugs people on both sides of the stalker divide. You can either see the opponent and they're rendered pretty much ineffective, or you cant see them, and you yourself are rendered pretty much ineffective. One side is often nullified in fights with stalkers, there is very little gray-area with them, and that is why both sides feel robbed all the time. This is of course, not figuring in PBAoE toggles which are a nightmare to work through... but as it has been said, every AT should have its weaknesses, there are builds that you are bound to have a terrible time fighting against.
I cant claim to know what to do, or how to do it, but its obvious that when it comes to stalkers, people on both sides of the fence feel robbed. Thats what i'd like to see change. A little larger 'gray area' so that people, even when in an uneven playing field, can still achieve a little by struggling on with the fight. We ALL have to expect to be laying face down in the dirt sometimes, but stalkers, and the way they have to be played (or were designed to be played), are the catalyst for a lot of frustration.
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The problem for me is to break the stalker AT all you need to do is take one power from the leadership pool. So thats taking one less power in exchange for having the potential to see all stalkers. Too me that sounds like a destroying an AT. Look at it this way, would you be happy if I could lose an attack for a power that would make me resistant to holds or give me super strength defence?
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I'm not talking about super strength effects, but yes. But you can't have more than four power pools, so you would spend one power pool to get stronger defence or a greater resistance to holds, that's ok by me.
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Since the introduction of ED many people have lots of slots free. I even know some people that still 6 slot (same enhancement type) because they cant see anywhere else to really put them. Putting enhancable perception enhancements into tactics is thus not really much of a sacrifice.
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This is true, but the +perception effect is only secondary in Tactics, the real bonus of that power is in +acc, plus the power is a huge end drain, so I'll have to watch what I slot it with. Say I six slot it, and I have two of each of the three types. I don't have optimal perception, so I won't be able to see the stalkers having 2-3 slotted their hide with stealth enhancements.
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I can see where you are trying to go but personally I dont think that would work (currently with how things are). I wouldn't know if having a greater power pool choice would be a good thing or a bad thing. One benefit would be more diverse characters but deciding on what you are going to miss out on might be a very hard decision.
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Yes, it's supposed to be a hard dicision. That's why even fewer ppl will choose tactics than those that do now.
Just a quick note, them quotes you have taken where put in the perspective of The_SiXKillA's comments/suggestions of what should be done. I didnt put it in quotes, I just followed on from his points.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
[ QUOTE ]
i have an energy energy blaster i have nooo probs taking down stalkers dude. just gotta learn to hunt them
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Yes, after reading his 2nd last post I looked at the powers in EN/EN and withing 10 - 20 seconds already had the guts of an anti-stalker strategy figured out. When I 1st entered the PVP zones I was playing a kin/elec defender and stalkers were a nightmare. By altering my strategy, assessing my powers, playing to my strengths I eventually built a strategy to deal with most of them. Sure, the great ones still kill me, but the wee plonkers usually run off.
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