[ QUOTE ]
sorry but i have to disagree with that
try playing a controller/defender u have to work yo but off to save the team
my blaster jeesh, effort.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have tried a Defender, and I've become quite adept at keeping my (suicidal) team mates alive, thank you.
What I'm saying is, give an identical build on the same AT to two players, and the one with greater skill/knowledge/experience will invariably come out on top.
Just because a build or AT is considered 'gimpy', doesn't mean it takes no skill to play it well.
It's misconceptions like yours that lead people to immediately jump on the FotM Band Wagon.
[ QUOTE ]
In the case of finding a solution to stalkers, its often earning another respec, then adding in another three or four powers to help you to merely spot them, and even then normally needing stalker-detector teammates. xP
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, some people dont churn out level 30's every other weekend. Some people level fast, some people level at the pace of.. y'know.. just a mere mortal. Getting into SC, only to find you cant do jack when faced with a stalker, would you honestly decide :
"I know! I'll just start a new toon from scratch JUST to fight stalkers! See you in a-hunred-and-bajillion months! "
[/ QUOTE ]
Too true.
[ QUOTE ]
Its.. licking the screen..
[/ QUOTE ]
And it's eyes is out of synch! It's crazy, I tell ya!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the case of finding a solution to stalkers, its often earning another respec, then adding in another three or four powers to help you to merely spot them, and even then normally needing stalker-detector teammates. xP
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.
[/ QUOTE ]
One defender clear mind seems to be enough to own stalkers .. Seriously, I didn't know the power was THAT good before I had experienced the ultimate purple glowing radar head..
I myself am stalker. I play a Spine/SR stalker and I use hide+stealth.
When you decide to create a stalker, there are basically two diffrent ways to build your powers. You either go for a scrapper-wannabe build, getting stamina and so on. Allowing you to take a few more hits. Or you can create the guerilla-stalker. The AS, placate and so on build.
I know allot of people think, there are other ways etc! But when it comes down to it. The stalker AT was desgined by cryptic to be the assassin. Get in, knock a foe down and get out. My build is purely PvP, I go in, as, ripper/impale, placate and get out of the heat.
I often stand in the corner of a battle looking for a squishy AT to unleash my chain on. Reason? Well thats pretty much the point of my AT. I am very good at killing a low-hp AT and getting away. But I can't take a hit even if my great grandmother needed me too. Now a x/regen/sr scrapper can stand in the middle of battle and take a beating for quite some time, and thats a perk of their build.
My point here is as many people above has stated is that, certain builds/ATs are good at defeating other ATs, but die horribly to other ATs. There are plenty of heros out there, that have great knowledge of the avrage joe stalker ASer and have worked out ways to take care of them, and still are able to take out other ATs. When I run into a stormie, CE tank etc. I know I can't sneak up and AS, so I alternate my tactics. I run in with ripper/brawl hoping for a good de-toggle, duke it out for abit, I re-hide heal and so on. I know I am a pain in the B*hind and that you want a straight up 1on1 fight. Why would I agree to that though, knowing that the outcome is more then likely me lieing facedown.
Stalkers are a "low-life" AT. They do use dirty tricks, they aren't the valliant tanker takign the heat. Were that guy/girl hiding in a dark alley waiting to mug you. Were the leechers, we wait until you are at your weakest and then knock you out.
What I have gatherd is that in 1on1, stalkers have a major advantage vs most other AT builds. But thats a perk of our AT, put me up against a team of 2 or 3 and then 9 times out of 10 it will be me dieing. People seem, as in so many other MMOs I have played, be upset that they ain't able to kill whatever comes along in a 1on1, or are upset that the oponent ain't as "brave" as them.
Everyday I get called, coward, n00b, amateur, go play a real AT etc. I can live with that, because I put myself there. I do placate when things get hot and run off. Why? Because I can.
As a side note, can't find the post now, but someone said that Stalkers is a complete AT. I figure, yes so they are. And the reason for that being that stalkers are pretty much focused around 1 component. Their abillity to hide. Allot of other "uncomplete" ATs have the abillity to do allot more, holds here, nukes there, heals and so on. Thus making them more Jacks off all trades. Maby this is why some people find their ATs lacking? That they are not specialized enough in a certain area?
[ QUOTE ]
Can i make a point here, dnt know if its been said but...
about the "dont need to have any skill"
heloooo, masterminds....
stalker takes some skill
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah?
Try a non bubble master mind in PvP then. No defense except the pets and the human players ignore the pets entirely. And even a bubbler is @#$%ed up when there is a rad controller around.
No need of skill? Hmm try Regen scrappers or */DA Brutes. But even there the skill full ones will do much better.
[ QUOTE ]
Stalkers are a "low-life" AT. They do use dirty tricks, they aren't the valliant tanker takign the heat. Were that guy/girl hiding in a dark alley waiting to mug you. Were the leechers, we wait until you are at your weakest and then knock you out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly! That's the point of them - it's the way you'd expect a lot of Vilians to fight.
This isn't Heroes vs Heroes, otherwise, we'd all just line up at either end of a street, and then engage in honorable battle 
If you play a Hero, then you have to accept that you are going to be up against some really nasty foes.
After all, if Arachnos was that strong, they would have launched a full-scale assault on the City by now - but as we, in fact, are greater in number, and more powerful, they have to use whatever means they have at their disposal to attack us, and that means using every underhand and dirty trick in the book.
I think the devs have done a good job in giving the Villians the ability to be dangerously elusive.
Being a Hero is supposed to involve challenges, and if you can't take the Arachnos challnege, then I'm sure the Freedom Corps has a nice, safe job for you, counting paper-clips or something 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Super_Heroine wins teh intarhweb!!11
Seriously though, it's not a bad or beginner's AT. It's a style of gameplay. Accept that or just be another moaner, and noone likes a moaner.
[ QUOTE ]
One defender clear mind seems to be enough to own stalkers .. Seriously, I didn't know the power was THAT good before I had experienced the ultimate purple glowing radar head..
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, you're right there. Clear-mind really does work wonders for detection. But detection is only part of fighting stalkers, hitting and revealing is the next step, and whilst its not always such a hard task, you will occasionally get a stalker who seems to have slipped kevlar into his/her ninjasuit. It is pretty strange though, Archelon is level 37 and i've only just really started to detect stalkers with some kind of reliability (that was with the help of steamy mist and the occasional, passing AoE from other teammates). Granted, the steamy mist alone seemed to be doing a good job of revealing (most) stalkers on its own. That really confused me, because I remember when I was a few levels lower, I couldnt see any of them without that, and IRGoggles+tactics+yellows. Am I just imagining things are does level really play a strong part in detection here? Even in a zone where we are all exemped and SK'ed to the same relative level? If that is the case, it would seriously explain some of the crossed wires we have been seeing. Some come to PVP zones at a lower level, some come to PVP zones from way above at level 40+. Could someone confirm if original level factors into hide/detection rules?
Good post though, Qima.
If there was ever an AT i'd be annoyed at running away, its brutes. Funny how so many of us have called stalkers cowards, but we just dont seem to be giving the brutes who run at the last moment enough spikey resentful attention
Seriously though, I can understand where the stalker players are coming from, its just the way they have been designed that get some of us. Its not necessarily that they are severely unbalanced, its just that they are one of the bigger fun-ruiners that can stray into a fight since us controllers. Difference is, we dont have an anti-stalker insp yet.
(I stress the -yet- part 
)
They're a crazy AT, a real mixed-bag. Though you know exactly what to expect from a stalker, it sometimes plays out a little differently. The most noted (but not necessarily the most occuring) incident, is when certain players are constantly 1-shotted with no chance of response, no matter how they attempt to move or detect. Another one, is where the stalker circles constantly, waiting for a prime target, jumps in, then gets dog-piled. I just personally think the entire hide/detect thing is imbalanced, because there are so many factors you have to throw around, you can never really tell who is going to oblitorate who. And in the end, thats what it comes down to. Either the stalker feels completely robbed, cheated, and like a nerfy-crippled AT, or the target feels completely cobbed, cheated, and ganked by an overpowered unbalanced AT.
Its just the way they're designed, and whilst stalkers do have the potential to become sluggish scrappers, they will find it a nightmare to excel, and will still suffer low HP and being a prime target. I dont play my stalker often, but I really do stick by my opinion that they need to be tweaked. Villains only really have one true melee damage-dealer AT, brutes, and stalkers are the trick-card that either wins outright or gets slaughtered outright. I would have personally liked a "blitzer" AT in place of the stalker. Still with a stealth element, but not nearly as strong, no AS, but criticals with a decent portion of unresistable damage, more hitpoints. Meh, thats wishful thinking though.
It would however be nice to see some kind of secondary set for the stalkers, that has more tricks and traps in it. Seriously, stalkers need the defense, but they wouldnt NEED so much bloody unresistable AS damage and such strong hiding ability, if the devs gave them the chance to be cunning, and actually behave like assassins rather than kamikaze knifemen with predator-camouflage :P
Qima, that is just a fab post! That should be stickied and everyone who whinges about stalkers should be pointed in its direction!
[ QUOTE ]
Archelon is level 37 and i've only just really started to detect stalkers with some kind of reliability (that was with the help of steamy mist and the occasional, passing AoE from other teammates).
[/ QUOTE ]
You should have been on earlier last night - we had Stalkers a-plenty for you to detect
You joined just as it was winding down...
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Spurr my sonic/en blaster is only lvl 30, and with double tactics plus infra red goggles plus clear mind, I still cannot see most stalkers if they are standing next to me talking; (though I think thats quite cool, it really adds to the threat factor).
I also think some people forget that we have an idea where our bounties are thanks to the yellow map indicator..No from some stalker busting detection powers 
In the end any enemy is annoying if I/we cant hit them with any degree of regularity..and it just happens to be the case that stalkers are good at not getting hit.
My thanks to QiSnake and Pyra
And as to your thoughts QiSnake, regarding that Hide is imbalanced.
I feel that it is not imbalanced. The entire AT is built on this one skill.
For example, imagine driving down an alley, you have no space to turn or change direction, you can only head in one direction. The only thing you can alter is the color of your car.
What I mean is that, no matter what a stalker does, we have to use our hide/placate. It is the only chance we have. The "color change" representing our diffrent attack/defense powers. For a stalker, the powersets don't really change anything except for the graphics. We don't have the choice of ignoring hide/placate/as and become a type of scrapper. Sure we can pick stamina and so on, but that wont do any good in the long run.
I spent a few hours in SC running around without hide or stealth. Basicaly, if I was standing in a group of 7 and myself. I got targeted first. And 1 - 2 seconds later I was dead. Without hide, stalkers can't do anything really, except be canon fodder and lets face it. Noone wants to be that.
Regarding AS, I don't think the damage it does should have a higher resist. The skill is fine, true some people get one shotted, but hey there is nothing stopping them from getting health increase powers, thus stopping the 1-shot. I don't need stealth, but I decided to take it to increase my survival time.
A change I could live with for stalkers though, to not make them so much a 1-trick AT. Would be to remove Placate. Remove our abillity to re-hide, If you miss/fail your AS, well then you made a misstake and deserve to get "punished". Removing placate I feel would stop allot of the hate on stalkers, I wouldn't mind not having placate in exchange for more hp/def so that I could duke it out in melee longer.
My 2 cents.
Kinda depends what wine they are served with.
[ QUOTE ]
Stalkers are a "low-life" AT. They do use dirty tricks, they aren't the valliant tanker takign the heat. Were that guy/girl hiding in a dark alley waiting to mug you. Were the leechers, we wait until you are at your weakest and then knock you out.
[/ QUOTE ]
I pretty much agree with your post and is a good post.However you cant really base that casual PvPers should accept the Stalker AT for roleplay reasons.
[ QUOTE ]
What I have gatherd is that in 1on1, stalkers have a major advantage vs most other AT builds. But thats a perk of our AT, put me up against a team of 2 or 3 and then 9 times out of 10 it will be me dieing. People seem, as in so many other MMOs I have played, be upset that they ain't able to kill whatever comes along in a 1on1, or are upset that the oponent ain't as "brave" as them.
[/ QUOTE ]
If thats the case i would like every stalker out there to shut up with the excuse "hey i kill you alone you need team to kill me" Cause every stalker when he dies starts to complain about ganking which is LAUGHABLE.
[ QUOTE ]
Everyday I get called, coward, n00b, amateur, go play a real AT etc. I can live with that, because I put myself there. I do placate when things get hot and run off. Why? Because I can.
[/ QUOTE ]
Problem is not that you can but that the game mechanics hasnt provided enough on the hero side for a casual PvPers to perform at least adequately against stalkers in PvP zones.
[ QUOTE ]
As a side note, can't find the post now, but someone said that Stalkers is a complete AT. I figure, yes so they are. And the reason for that being that stalkers are pretty much focused around 1 component. Their abillity to hide. Allot of other "uncomplete" ATs have the abillity to do allot more, holds here, nukes there, heals and so on. Thus making them more Jacks off all trades. Maby this is why some people find their ATs lacking? That they are not specialized enough in a certain area?
[/ QUOTE ]
Problem is exactly that Cryptic never designed Hero AT's for PvP.In order to deal with stalkers you need highly sepcialized hero builds that can actually perform exclusive stalker hunting.When i decided create a stalker hunter i had to create such a specialised hero build that it cannot perform in PvE AT ALL,while an average built stalker even from new players can perform relativelly well in a PvP zone.
Issue here is not so much the unbalance between hero and villain functionality but the mentallity of new players that thinking that by performing well on a stalker that gives them right to abuse on broadcasts or tells and this is a growing phenomenon in the PvP zones.Its cryptics fault the way PvP is designed imho too since right now there are so many initiatives to roll a stalker for PvP and none of the rest AT's.PvP zones in RV will empty pretty fast when the really organised and tactical teams enter the zone and decimate stalker teams for fun.
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding AS, I don't think the damage it does should have a higher resist. The skill is fine, true some people get one shotted, but hey there is nothing stopping them from getting health increase powers, thus stopping the 1-shot. I don't need stealth, but I decided to take it to increase my survival time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I personally dont mind the one shoting at all.But the problem is there are no health increasing powers for squishies except in epic pools for some unlike the villains side with the cold corruptors buffing the hp. The only way to get some buffing is to get accolades which not everyone knows how to or is willing to get them
[ QUOTE ]
A change I could live with for stalkers though, to not make them so much a 1-trick AT. Would be to remove Placate. Remove our abillity to re-hide, If you miss/fail your AS, well then you made a misstake and deserve to get "punished". Removing placate I feel would stop allot of the hate on stalkers, I wouldn't mind not having placate in exchange for more hp/def so that I could duke it out in melee longer.
My 2 cents.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agreed with your earlier post, it said all that I would want to say but was far more thought out than anything I could say. 
Now though, the problem with the above is that an AS can miss through no fault of your own but due to the way the game works, IIRC there is always at least 5% chance to miss any attack.
Personally I would change hide... not in a bad way. Make it so you have a choice once you have attacked, you can either re-enter hide (placate etc) or run away. If you run away you are no longer being stealthy so the stealth part of hide drops, and remains dropped while you have a travel power active. To get into hide then you have to drop the travel power entirely for 10s or something, hide comes back and you can try again. It would stop the annoying AS -> Run like fook tactic that seems to be far more annoying to most than the AS itself.
When you AS/Attack from Hide your travel power is dropped (as in detoggled) if you retoggle it or teleport (including Recall, NOT TP Foe) Hide is detoggled. If you placate or don't use a travel power the system works as now.
I love stalkers, they rock and tbh unless you've played one you really don't know how good it feels to stalk and AS someone. 
Its a fitting revenge for the hell we have to go through in early level bank raids
We are squishy but we are also surgical. My stalker is generally an asset to team, wanna ghost a mission, get the stalker to do it. Can't complete the mission cause the mobs are way to hard.. get the stalker to find the Boss then TP the rest of team there for nice quick mission.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One defender clear mind seems to be enough to own stalkers .. Seriously, I didn't know the power was THAT good before I had experienced the ultimate purple glowing radar head..
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, you're right there. Clear-mind really does work wonders for detection. But detection is only part of fighting stalkers, hitting and revealing is the next step, and whilst its not always such a hard task, you will occasionally get a stalker who seems to have slipped kevlar into his/her ninjasuit.
[/ QUOTE ]
I try to be sporting and have no defence on my stalkers (yes plaural, I have another concept now ) so if u get me u have pretty much killed me CM is awesome V newbie stalkers but experienced ones can ruin your day, as I always say just because you ahve the ability to see them doesnt mean you will
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much agree with your post and is a good post.However you cant really base that casual PvPers should accept the Stalker AT for roleplay reasons.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't Roleplay, and never intended for people to accept the stalker AT for the history of assasins
[ QUOTE ]
If thats the case i would like every stalker out there to shut up with the excuse "hey i kill you alone you need team to kill me" Cause every stalker when he dies starts to complain about ganking which is LAUGHABLE.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I never saw the point of going "/b Oooo I am uber leet! You cant kill me 1on1" That kind of stalker is the type I hunt down in warbug. They are annoying, childish and ill mannerd. When they die, I get the feeling of good riddance to bad rubbish. Though, on Union (don't know about Defiance) There isn't to much of that type of broadcast chat, from what I've seen atleast.
[ QUOTE ]
Problem is not that you can but that the game mechanics hasnt provided enough on the hero side for a casual PvPers to perform at least adequately against stalkers in PvP zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see your point, for the avrage player that don't use hero planner or troll the forums, it is very hard to come up with a challenge torwards the stalker. A solution to this problem, I am afraid is far in the future and would require allot of planning. It is not a walk in the park issue, imo.
[ QUOTE ]
Problem is exactly that Cryptic never designed Hero AT's for PvP.In order to deal with stalkers you need highly sepcialized hero builds that can actually perform exclusive stalker hunting.When i decided create a stalker hunter i had to create such a specialised hero build that it cannot perform in PvE AT ALL,while an average built stalker even from new players can perform relativelly well in a PvP zone.
Issue here is not so much the unbalance between hero and villain functionality but the mentallity of new players that thinking that by performing well on a stalker that gives them right to abuse on broadcasts or tells and this is a growing phenomenon in the PvP zones.Its cryptics fault the way PvP is designed imho too since right now there are so many initiatives to roll a stalker for PvP and none of the rest AT's.PvP zones in RV will empty pretty fast when the really organised and tactical teams enter the zone and decimate stalker teams for fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes indeed. If I was driving a Formula 1 car and Schumacher was driving a Smart, and I beat him around the track. That would not give me the right to brag about how uber I am. Stalkers have it easy in PvP, I am not denying that. I have taken the habbit to tell people who brag, missbehave and so on in broadcast etc, that their behaviour is not appriciated and that I ask them nicely to stop. Not much more you can do really, after all the last ain't born yet.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much agree with your post and is a good post.However you cant really base that casual PvPers should accept the Stalker AT for roleplay reasons.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't Roleplay, and never intended for people to accept the stalker AT for the history of assasins
[ QUOTE ]
If thats the case i would like every stalker out there to shut up with the excuse "hey i kill you alone you need team to kill me" Cause every stalker when he dies starts to complain about ganking which is LAUGHABLE.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I never saw the point of going "/b Oooo I am uber leet! You cant kill me 1on1" That kind of stalker is the type I hunt down in warbug. They are annoying, childish and ill mannerd. When they die, I get the feeling of good riddance to bad rubbish. Though, on Union (don't know about Defiance) There isn't to much of that type of broadcast chat, from what I've seen atleast.
[ QUOTE ]
Problem is not that you can but that the game mechanics hasnt provided enough on the hero side for a casual PvPers to perform at least adequately against stalkers in PvP zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see your point, for the avrage player that don't use hero planner or troll the forums, it is very hard to come up with a challenge torwards the stalker. A solution to this problem, I am afraid is far in the future and would require allot of planning. It is not a walk in the park issue, imo.
[ QUOTE ]
Problem is exactly that Cryptic never designed Hero AT's for PvP.In order to deal with stalkers you need highly sepcialized hero builds that can actually perform exclusive stalker hunting.When i decided create a stalker hunter i had to create such a specialised hero build that it cannot perform in PvE AT ALL,while an average built stalker even from new players can perform relativelly well in a PvP zone.
Issue here is not so much the unbalance between hero and villain functionality but the mentallity of new players that thinking that by performing well on a stalker that gives them right to abuse on broadcasts or tells and this is a growing phenomenon in the PvP zones.Its cryptics fault the way PvP is designed imho too since right now there are so many initiatives to roll a stalker for PvP and none of the rest AT's.PvP zones in RV will empty pretty fast when the really organised and tactical teams enter the zone and decimate stalker teams for fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes indeed. If I was driving a Formula 1 car and Schumacher was driving a Smart, and I beat him around the track. That would not give me the right to brag about how uber I am. Stalkers have it easy in PvP, I am not denying that. I have taken the habbit to tell people who brag, missbehave and so on in broadcast etc, that their behaviour is not appriciated and that I ask them nicely to stop. Not much more you can do really, after all the last ain't born yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the feedback.On the roleplaying part maybe i misinterpreted as English not my native language.Good to see that at least there are few more people playing a stalker and contribute more than the average "lolol u sux i rox in PvP cause i one shot you" thing.
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the feedback.On the roleplaying part maybe i misinterpreted as English not my native language.Good to see that at least there are few more people playing a stalker and contribute more than the average "lolol u sux i rox in PvP cause i one shot you" thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am new to CoX, started playing roughly 2 or 3 weeks ago. Qima is my first character. She is in her 30s, so I consider myself a beginner. Thus I don't claim to know everything, just stating what I've seen so far
[ QUOTE ]
I love stalkers, they rock and tbh unless you've played one you really don't know how good it feels to stalk and AS someone. Its a fitting revenge for the hell we have to go through in early level bank raids
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sorry but you are saying that stalkers should one shot squishies because they have a hard time in bank raids?? 
[ QUOTE ]
CM is awesome V newbie stalkers but experienced ones can ruin your day, as I always say just because you ahve the ability to see them doesnt mean you will
[/ QUOTE ]
Now I'm really interested whats behind this statement..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love stalkers, they rock and tbh unless you've played one you really don't know how good it feels to stalk and AS someone. Its a fitting revenge for the hell we have to go through in early level bank raids
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sorry but you are saying that stalkers should one shot squishies because they have a hard time in bank raids??
[/ QUOTE ]
TG, stop taking everything so seriously..
sorry but i have to disagree with that
try playing a controller/defender u have to work yo but off to save the team
my blaster jeesh, effort.