Why Do People Hate Stalkers?

As people have been saying, i forget who but stalkers are not a prob for me and my squishies ( well maybe just my T.A defender cuz of lack of damage) but trollers! wow are they strong especially in warburg( hate to think of them in recluses victory) if u get ur mez protection de-toggled, then ur kinda screwed! i fought them as a scrapper and a blaster they are strong after lvl 30! My scrapper had only the trouble of cathcing the stalkers or fgettin them into range, i kill more stalkers with my nrg/ nrg blaster than my dark armor scrapper,which has perception. and i thnk most people on the forums aren't pvpers anyways but the trend of most posts more poeple attack then praise pvp.

P.S tping phasing and de-toggle aren't that dirty lol, it reminds me of being a kid and people saying kicking was cheap adn dirty cuz kicks have more power lol

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Often said but bearing in mind how few of the server population actually posts on the boards and even then there isn't a consensus. I would love to know where you get the idea that Stalkers are the most hated. We all know you hate them, but isn't what you are saying.

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Just look at the amount of stalker threads there are. And I haven't even started one for months.

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And as I said we still haven't reached a consensus.

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Unlike most other ATs you can at least get powers that help against them, take holds for instance, they drop all your toggles, and very few of us have any way of reducing the effect. +Perception can at least be taken from a power pool. Holds can only be broken from inspirations.

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That's what I mean. The secondary effect of powerpool buffs should be bigger. like the mez protection from acrobatics (or whatever it is, or give it mez protection), defence buff from combat jumping hover and stealth, whatever it is you get from tough and weave. as well as having the hide power enhanceable for stealth.

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Perhaps if you had mentioned this then I wouldn't have been so confused, giving Stalkers hide enhancements for hide/stealth and everyone perception enhancements won't change anything much. Most non defender/controller types take tactics for its perception and not the accuracy, they become better. But if the stalkers can slot stelth enhancements instead of defense then they become better too. Its not a sensible solution. (Note: I don't actually think there is a problem.)

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Well obviously with your uberness, you no problem hitting through PFF/Bubbles, Elude, MoG, Storm, Telekinesis and a range of other powers, that either slow you, keep you away or in other ways prevent you from killing the person. The rest of don't try and solo the annoying storm controllers we get a team.

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Now you'r just pretending. right? If I can see the opponent, and he isn't able to one/two hit kill me, then then game is still on. With a stalker, they disappear if you don't hit them for a short while, and once that happens your in the hosp before you know it. And really, I don't mind the one hit kills, OR the two hit ones. I just want to be able to prevent it from happening from every stalker who can pick the stealth powerpool. because that's ALL they need to be completely impervious to my elite perception skillz. That means every stalker out there with an ounce of inteligence.

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If I am in SC and see a bubble defender sure i might take a pass at it but if I'm alone and its in PFF I'll leave it, I can't hit it solo, period. Stormies I can't get close to, and if I do my accuracy is debuffed to hell. I'll happily hit scrappers in MoG but scrappers in Elude are all but impossible for me to kill. Powers like Telekinesis just make me swear. If I am not on a team i don't even bother trying, whats the point, I may as well be fighting a war wall or a drone.

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So why bother?

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Your really not paying attention, are you? j/k
With stronger effect on the pool power buffs, and more to choose from, you'll get the sense that you are sacrificing something in order to get something else. That way only people who want's to be good at hunting stalkers will pick the leadership pool, slot that right, and stand a greater chance of spotting stalkers. and since I didn't pick the SJ pool so I got Acrobatics, I'm very voulnerable to mez. Or I don't have any defence because I haven't got CJ hover or Stealth. Then you make up some more, and you got a diverse system, that's flexible and makes truely unique characters.

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So why bother? Was directed at your assertation that if Stalkers were given hide enhancements and everyone else was given perception enhancements that would be good. However Either the hide enhancements are not as good making stalkers underpowered and impossible to play due to anyone with tactics being able to see them. Or due to their additional hide skills nothing changes, ergo what is the point?

If I was to play a stalker and I was given the ability to slot hide with stealth enhancements I would, I might even go as far as to slot it with 6, I'd now be more stealthy. Even if you prevent stealth being used at the same time, that wouldn't stop Grant Invis being stacked too. So the only way roundthis is to make Tactics overpowered thus crushing any usefulness that stalkers might have.

What might be more sensible is to make hide drop travel powers/supress TP so Stalkers in Hide are limited to Swift Sprint, Hurdle. Which would sort of fit with the power. They would still be able to get close and AS but would have the choice of getting away or returning to hide. With one they are followable with the other a team would soon find them.

However then they could spec into Phase shift, phase for 30s and get away that way.

If you ignore teams you cannot balance any of the ATs in the game.

To me most stalkers annoy me, but in a different way than most players. Most stalkers I fight in SC (which is my main pvp zone) are rather weak. Or should I say, the player behind em is rather weak? What I see these days is that most players dont realize a stalkers potential. Most stalkers these days can only do: hide(+stealth) - sneak up on someone - AS - placate + attack or run. Though most if they dont get a 1-hit kill, they run. To me, I find that annoying, cause they aint really participating in the PvP.

Most of times I got a good team and we can prevent each other from being 1 or 2 shot most times. After this, stalkers just get boring. Stand there "oh, here's another one" when a stalker tries to get a 1-hit kill again. Course I know a few good ones, and I love fighting those. Stalkers can do way more than just AS and run. People (stalkers) say I annoy em on my troller cause i got an earth/storm and no way in hell they can beat me. Though I know 3 or 4 stalkers that can take me down if my team cant back me up. Then again, those 3 or 4 dont always open with an AS and try to drop my hurricane first.

So yes, stalkers annoy me, and bore me even more. Wonder if stopping hide+stealth stacking forces stalkers to actually use tactics and maybe pose a challenge.

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P.S tping phasing and de-toggle aren't that dirty lol, it reminds me of being a kid and people saying kicking was cheap adn dirty cuz kicks have more power lol

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I think some people like a nice cup of tea and some cake with there pvp.
I remember a teacher in primary school breaking up a fight and giving one lad a bollocking because "kicking is a cowardly way of fighting".

Saying that Stalkers are cowards because they hit and run is like saying Regens that regen the damage are or tankers with all their armours on are. And to be honest an Eluded Scrapper (or stalker) or a GA Tank is far more boring than a stalker, at least I have a chance with them.

could you quote the exact part where i say they are cowards? I dont say they are cowards, its just that bout every stalker i meet got the same tactic: move up, try to AS, run whether or not he gets the kill. If you have even a decent group, you walk away with your life and if you can get him fast enough you kill the stalker. With eluded scrappers, its just a matter to keep em occupied till elude wears off. GA tanks are actually pushovers in most PvP (presume you mean granite armor). Spam em with slows or fear and there aint much they do. At least those two can put up a different fight each time.

Haven't read the whole thread...

anyway its a pride thing, getting killed in 1-2 shots generally will aggravate people and hurts their pride because they've they die so fast. Let alone people don't grasp that its a stalkers job to kill in such a way. Slippery slope kicks in, complaints about being 1-2 shotted, this spreads around the boards, dev's then listen to the crybabies and nerf them.

Stalkers were fine as they are now, yet alone the dev's haven't realised how pants their going to be in recluse's victory....

w00t range snipe....who cares its resistable damage. squishies now have shields. Stalkers are now just scrapper/tank meat.

Anyone can be as sneaky as a stalker and upset people in the same way, I was in Warburg awhile back and when i arrived there was a group of about 6 or 7 villians on the beach, there was 1 other hero there, a blaster standing on the ship chatting to the villians on broadcast, it was clear the villians were working as a team and me (scrapper) and the other hero (blaster) had a cat in hels chance of getting any kills there, I tried and got squished very fast, we were there for PvP so standing around was not going to get us anywhere and people started putting them selves forward for 1 on 1 fights, i took a challenge from a brute and we had a good match, non of the other villians got involed and the blaster even went to stand with the group of villians to join the dance pary they were having. During my fight another few heros turned up, a tank and 2 more blasters, they joined the team me and the blaster had started and were informed of the state of play atm, understanding this they joined the beach party, after my fight with the brute was over the tank started a 1 on 1 with a corruptor, again everyone let them get on with it. After that ended we all danced on the beach, everyone was chatting on broadcast and getting along. all of a sudden one of the new blasters placed himself in the centre of the group and started buffing himself, I counted 4 big enrages and build up, then BOOM inferno, resulting in a party of upset villians, they all died bar the brute. You should of heard the comments role in, dirty cheating hero and what not. My point being every AT and imploy cheaky tactics its just alot of people see stalkers using nothing but. There are alot of solid points on this thread. I still feel a 1 hit kill from no where is unfair though.

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could you quote the exact part where i say they are cowards? I dont say they are cowards, its just that bout every stalker i meet got the same tactic: move up, try to AS, run whether or not he gets the kill. If you have even a decent group, you walk away with your life and if you can get him fast enough you kill the stalker. With eluded scrappers, its just a matter to keep em occupied till elude wears off. GA tanks are actually pushovers in most PvP (presume you mean granite armor). Spam em with slows or fear and there aint much they do. At least those two can put up a different fight each time.

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Apologies should have said, it was a reply to the thread rather than your specific post.

Having said that, I disagree with you as well Stalkers use their abilities as they have to, Stalkers are not designed to run in AS, Placate, Crit/AS, then scrap like a scrapper, they may have some staying power, but in my experience while I may have difficulty killing them I don't have an issue surviving them. And with my non optimal build I can't follow a stalker away. Something like a tank in Granite or a scrapper in Elude, or a bubbler in PFF I can't do anything to, sure if I have a team mate with a debuff but in general I can't hit them period. That is boring. I suspect the stalkers that sharpened their claws/knives/glowing fists/etc on me the other night were finding my regen rather boring too, four x AS, several crits and I'm still on full health. I would have stayed longer but my build is crap and I took reconstruction post lvl40, so half my hit points every 30s isn't happening

Now true if I was playing other ATs extensivly my view on stalkers might change, regen scrappers only fear burst damage, one toggle (excluding pools), and a generally insane regen rate means that other than perhaps being ASed at the same time we are pretty damn resilient. And my personal fear is being held, because when held I have no more say in what happens. Even then if I have clicked Instant Healing and Dull Pain before being held I'm still difficult to kill.

Ultimately I get bored of PvP mainly for the reasons you state, fighting, or trying to fight, a character that never stays still long enough for me to do anything to, is a pain. Back in i4 I played a fair bit in the arenas and I got to the asme point non-team PvP is Rock, Scissors & Stone. Open PvP is too unless you have a team backing you up.

Reply to thread as a whole.

At least other archetypes if running away can be followed...making it a little bit of fun...kiss me chase me etc! Stalkers placate is the most annoying aspect. It's not as if when standing toe to toe they don't have survivability. Access to shields and defenses that other ATs like blasters don't have until higher levels, and even then pretty pants ones, makes stalkers far more durable than most squishies.

agree with the points you made lost, and I prolly havent put myself clear. I dont expect stalkers to scrap, I am ok with the fact that their main damage is dealt up front and the longer they stay, the lower their survivability. What bores me however, is that EVERY (well almost every) stalker uses the same tactic and seems to me they dont even try to fight or even interest what happens to their target. If stalkers SHOULD be played like that, why do they get all these other powers? Current state of affairs is, that stalker attacks atm are more like mosquito attacks, you walk around and feel a sting, annoying but nothing serious.

i agree with everclear on the whole lvl 50 stalkers not being such a big threat tread. i noticed as i have seen b4 that stalkers are more a problem at lower lvls, sirens call and bloody bay. Come recluses victory with even blaster have things like replusive shield and PFF is they want, so i see stalkers have alot of trouble ASing the higher lvls. this will mean a) stalkers will adapt to the new powers and game play higher lvls bring b) they will not go to this zone at all or not oftend like (in my own experiences)warburg and the other ATs can battle with the mind set that not many if any stalkers are about.

so in i7 heres to a new and better pvp, that many might be happier with.

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i agree with everclear on the whole lvl 50 stalkers not being such a big threat tread. i noticed as i have seen b4 that stalkers are more a problem at lower lvls, sirens call and bloody bay. Come recluses victory with even blaster have things like replusive shield and PFF is they want, so i see stalkers have alot of trouble ASing the higher lvls. this will mean a) stalkers will adapt to the new powers and game play higher lvls bring b) they will not go to this zone at all or not oftend like (in my own experiences)warburg and the other ATs can battle with the mind set that not many if any stalkers are about.

so in i7 heres to a new and better pvp, that many might be happier with.

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Doeas anyone not see this resulting in some big buffs for stalkers in future issues as a result? The main thing about stalkers, in both PvE and PvP is that they are essentially squishy characters but HAVE to rely on melee.

Given that AS is becoming so ineffective as you level, can people see the Devs making them a bit hardier and more scrapper like in normal combat to allow them to actually follow up AS and attempt kills as it becomes less useful?

I would like to see AS nerfed more but stalkers given more of a buff in the general combat areas. While they can't be buffed to anywhere near the levels of scrappers it would be nice to see them rely less on AS purely to make it more fun for both them and those fighting them in PvP and make them a bit more useful in larger PvE teams where enemy AoE's are normally the death of them

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I would like to see AS nerfed more but stalkers given more of a buff in the general combat areas. While they can't be buffed to anywhere near the levels of scrappers it would be nice to see them rely less on AS purely to make it more fun for both them and those fighting them in PvP and make them a bit more useful in larger PvE teams where enemy AoE's are normally the death of them


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Fun is subjective. I'm not that keen on my stalker these days but when i do play him i play him because i want to sneak around causing massive damage, if i want to scrap i play my scrappers. I dont see how stalkers would benefit from being turned into scrappers, we already have them As it stands stalkers are unique, changing them to make them the same as another AT would be just wrong imo.

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Given that AS is becoming so ineffective as you level, can people see the Devs making them a bit hardier and more scrapper like in normal combat to allow them to actually follow up AS and attempt kills as it becomes less useful?

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I'd rather see AS take off a % of HP depending on things like AT's, powersets, levels, and slotting.

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Given that AS is becoming so ineffective as you level, can people see the Devs making them a bit hardier and more scrapper like in normal combat to allow them to actually follow up AS and attempt kills as it becomes less useful?

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Pick more defence powers and slot them. If you want to make a scrapper stalker, it's perfectly achieveable. Hell, try doing it without AS. You'll still do criticals from hidden and while your opponent is held or immobilized - which is more than a scrapper has. You might not be as 'hard' as a scrapper but you certainly kill a lot faster in melee.

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Why do people hate stalkers:

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Thank you Max for being opened minded. You sir, get a big chocolate chip cookie.

I can't believe this "stalker AS'ed me!!11 I maek poast!!!" topic is still around.

I play a stalker as well as a scrapper as well as a WS and PB, in pvp. The concept of rock, paper , scissors applies here.
We were 3 stalkers trying to get a group of controllers the other day. We failed miserably even after trying many times. You win some, you lose some. If you keep losing, stop, think, find solution. Rince and repeat.

You really hate stalkers? Go make yourself a anti-stalker toon and stop moaning.

I don't hate stalkers, they try to tickle me...

...with ninja blades...

...and...things...

Personally I can't fault the stalkers for playing the way they do, it is obvious thats how they are designed to play. The fault is Cryptic's if there is one.

Lets all remind ourselves that the reason for upcoming I7 stalker nerfs is, that devs took a look at each AT's kills/own defeats ratio and noticed that for stalkers it was completely borked beyond the point of being ridiculous. Thats all that matters really. Whether they require skill to play or not is really irrelevant.

I know that stalkers are my only real worry in the sirens (I havent played much in warburg yet, since it usually is completely empty) as most other villain ATs save ff masterminds feel almost like cannon fodder to me.. But tactically the way stalkers function is very very strong, it is impossible to defeat an enemy if you don't know where he is.. If I can see and catch them, stalkers are toast, though

They shouldn't nerf them too much - they're a challenging foe.

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We were 3 stalkers trying to get a group of controllers the other day. We failed miserably even after trying many times. You win some, you lose some. If you keep losing, stop, think, find solution. Rince and repeat.

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In the case of finding a solution to stalkers, its often earning another respec, then adding in another three or four powers to help you to merely spot them, and even then normally needing stalker-detector teammates. xP

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You really hate stalkers? Go make yourself a anti-stalker toon and stop moaning.

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Unfortunately, some people dont churn out level 30's every other weekend. Some people level fast, some people level at the pace of.. y'know.. just a mere mortal. Getting into SC, only to find you cant do jack when faced with a stalker, would you honestly decide :
"I know! I'll just start a new toon from scratch JUST to fight stalkers! See you in a-hunred-and-bajillion months! "

Hardcore gamers can get away with that, but what about those of us who put in a measly 3 hours of CoX a day, and dont always play the same toons (to prevent the entire boredom factor kicking in). Man, I love all-encapsulating "aaah shaddap" posts. I aughta shmeck you upsiddada head with a rolled up newspaper Swissy. Only, your avatar pic is too cute.
*curls up*
Its.. licking the screen..

QiSnake, I understand what you're saying. Very valid points indeed.
I just don't see the constant need to moan about something that has already been discussed to death.
I also believe that, when constantly hitting that brick wall, one needs to come up with a solution to get round the problem.

I'm no hardcore gamer.. I just have no life..

My avie? ^^ I use it's cuteness to cover my annoying and naggin' posts :P

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I'm no hardcore gamer.. I just have no life..

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You too? Wow, small world

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My avie? ^^ I use it's cuteness to cover my annoying and naggin' posts :P

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I should get myself one of those..

Can i make a point here, dnt know if its been said but...

about the "dont need to have any skill"

heloooo, masterminds....

stalker takes some skill

So does any AT to play proficiently.

A good player will always best a lazy player on any AT.