[ QUOTE ]
In other words, people will happily cut off their nose, just to spite their face.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. They're willing to take more time and effort to avoid a minigame they dislike. But, those people don't just take longer themselves: they also don't generate supply for the market. They actually help to keep prices high, ironically, by trying to avoid the high prices.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other words, people will happily cut off their nose, just to spite their face.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is a bit uncharitable. Players will tend to engage in in-game activities that they enjoy. If they don't enjoy marketing, they won't do it. And so it should be, CoX is a leisure activity.
[/ QUOTE ]
It does depend on their reasoning though. Certainly we get people posting in here who hate the idea of the market on a conceptual or RP level, and so refuse to use it even while sometimes acknowledging it may be the best way to get "stuff". However, It's quite consistent that we get people posting in this section whose complaint is not so much that they hate using the market as they hate the prices on it. When you get people complaining about the cost, and then hailing merits as a wonderful solution, I am convinced these people are committing the above face marring. The reason is that price in inf and merit cost are both a proxy for the time it takes to acquire something, and merits for something frequently take longer than earning the inf on the market. In the cases where "high" price really is the complaint, merits should not be the preferred solution.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am upset I was enjoying Comic Con and missed this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't be. I'd have much rather have been there, than in this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really hope my ignore list goes with me to the new forums this week or this thread was a complete waste of time. 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
#10 is pretty bad as well (in my opinion)
I ran all 6 FP TFs this weekend on one character, and haven't spent a single merit from any of them yet. I ought to random roll the whole wad, but the character (a rad/rad) is still mianly using SOs so I may 'save' them until I have a build planned out.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Or I could cash those in for ya. See my new sig.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
It was one word, you're telling me one word didn't allow you to read an entire paragraph correctly?. See thats ego not error. One word especially one mispelled, can still be understood in the context in which is was used in. Don't act like the entire paragraph was ruined due to one word. Then again its the common board defense so I can't really say its going to change, just don't act like I can't go back a few pages and realize it was just one word.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
As opposed to ignoring someone being the better idea?. It's called a discussion board for a reason. Yet people cling onto the ignore option for dear life. I don't hide under a rock via ignoring someone just because we don't agree on something. Like I posted before, we can discuss this in RL or keep playing "catch" on the boards, your choice. Throwing insults is childish at best, but hey, thats one thing you can thank the schooling system for. Sour grapes if you don't like what I post, but don't act like a child who "doesn't want to hear it" just because your opinion differs.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
[ QUOTE ]
Or I could cash those in for ya. See my new sig.
[/ QUOTE ]
Downside to this, its on a 50.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
It does depend on their reasoning though. Certainly we get people posting in here who hate the idea of the market on a conceptual or RP level, and so refuse to use it even while sometimes acknowledging it may be the best way to get "stuff". However, It's quite consistent that we get people posting in this section whose complaint is not so much that they hate using the market as they hate the prices on it. When you get people complaining about the cost, and then hailing merits as a wonderful solution, I am convinced these people are committing the above face marring. The reason is that price in inf and merit cost are both a proxy for the time it takes to acquire something, and merits for something frequently take longer than earning the inf on the market. In the cases where "high" price really is the complaint, merits should not be the preferred solution.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, high prices are always going to be the major complaint in any MMO with an AH. But at the same time , people aren't getting any smarter. I figure I can help out many more people IO a set, if I sold said enhancement at a low price. Especially someone I team with on and off. They shouldn't have to run heavy AE runs, just to get enough inf for one IO. It's the greed game, you hear you can make 90-100 million in one purple IO and you become that 4 year old child wanting that brand new shiny. It comes with the territory. I know it isn't going to stop, but it needs to settle down a little. I don't have a problem with the market, just certain greedy people behind it.
In the end its all avarice, the "need" to be better than some other player will always arise before the want of just playing. And you can bet a gold bullion that many enamored by said greed will defend it blindly, it's all they know , and all they care to understand.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Lacrymosa: I've only encountered you in this thread.
You've made offers to physically meet and intimidate people.
You've decided that people who disagree with you are living in their parents basement.
You've decided that defending an imaginary market is less valuable than attacking it.
You've accused people of being childish.
You've blamed the school system for... something.
In fact, you've done just about everything except discuss the substance of any of the counterarguments people have offered.
I wasn't actually going to put you on /ignore ... and then I specifically read every post you made in this thread, one after the other.
If I'm talking about economics, and you're talking about my living arrangements, my flawed character, and my various sins ... that's not actually a dialogue.
Why should I listen to you if you're not listening to me?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
See thats ego not error.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't correct you, that was someone else. I was just responding to what you said. And my response, that I have great difficulty reading text that uses (intentional or otherwise) substituted words, is exactly that: my response. Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm the only one--that's fine. But it's the truth--I have a great deal (I mean, like, going back and reading the sentence over and over again about ten times) of difficulty reading things like that. I have learned, over time, that I read differently from a lot of people.
In any case, I was just hypothesizing why someone made a comment. 
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm talking about economics, and you're talking about my living arrangements, my flawed character, and my various sins ... that's not actually a dialogue.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not much better in other forums.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Lacrymosa: I've only encountered you in this thread.
You've made offers to physically meet and intimidate people.
You've decided that people who disagree with you are living in their parents basement.
You've decided that defending an imaginary market is less valuable than attacking it.
You've accused people of being childish.
You've blamed the school system for... something.
In fact, you've done just about everything except discuss the substance of any of the counterarguments people have offered.
I wasn't actually going to put you on /ignore ... and then I specifically read every post you made in this thread, one after the other.
If I'm talking about economics, and you're talking about my living arrangements, my flawed character, and my various sins ... that's not actually a dialogue.
Why should I listen to you if you're not listening to me?
[/ QUOTE ]
He's certainly not dispelling any myths about New Yorkers being self-absorbed, rude, conceited, or close-minded, thats for sure.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
Lacrymosa: I've only encountered you in this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
This thread appears to fascinate him. With a reg date over four years ago, over 4% of all his posts ever are in this thread (15 out of 356).
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
[ QUOTE ]
He's certainly not dispelling any myths about New Yorkers being self-absorbed, rude, conceited, or close-minded, thats for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, hey! I'm in NYC too! 
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or I could cash those in for ya. See my new sig.
[/ QUOTE ]
Downside to this, its on a 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most of mine are also on a 50, but I have a level 37 with XP turned off who has almost 2,000 merits. Almost 100 random rolls at 8 million each. Tempting . . . 
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's certainly not dispelling any myths about New Yorkers being self-absorbed, rude, conceited, or close-minded, thats for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, hey! I'm in NYC too!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but you dispel the myths and stereotypes. he seems to revel in them. >_>
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
Look, I'm from New Jersey, you don't see me getting pushy, loud, or...
umm...
LOOK! AN OBVIOUS DISTRACTION!
*flees*
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
Look, I'm from New Jersey, you don't see me getting pushy, loud, or...
umm...
LOOK! AN OBVIOUS DISTRACTION!
*flees*
[/ QUOTE ]
shiny? where?!
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
The answer, as ever, is to give players a viable alternative to the market for getting IOs. Not a replacement, but a viable alternative.
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
[ QUOTE ]
The answer, as ever, is to give players a viable alternative to the market for getting IOs. Not a replacement, but a viable alternative.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is. said viable alternative has to be either 100% equal to, or lesser in efficiency to the market, or else the market dies.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
The answer, as ever, is to give players a viable alternative to the market for getting IOs. Not a replacement, but a viable alternative.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a problem there, though. If they're reasonable to get, people will get tehm, and the market gets nothing. A market really only functions well when you have some fluidity to it: things have to enter and leave. If supply dries up, then the prices spike, and people stop using it. End result is a crippled market that is worthless to everyone.
If you make things too EASY to get, supply outweighs demand, prices bottom out. Good for players, but then the market no longer functions as an effective INF sink (whether it does a good enough job NOW is debatable.)
The best solution is one that slightly increases the rate people aquire the things they want, but also generates recipes that they do NOT want as a side-effect. Those go on the market, ensuring a steady supply that resists massive price swings.
I suggested a team multiplier a while back, that would slightly increase the supply of recipes and salvage according to team size: not a huge boost, but another way of increasing direct supply (things people want, and get from drops) and market supply (things that drop but the player can't use.)
Ultimately, increasing supply helps to stabilize the market, and also makes it more attractive to more people. By the nature of markets, more people using it makes it more efficient. Too much, hoewever, would be as bad as too little. Merits had a much larger effect than most thought they would. I wouldn't be surprised if the devs are paying very close attention to anything that provides recipe and salvage rewards now.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
Isn't the answer Ticket and Merits?
Can you get purps with merits? If so, then yes.
[ QUOTE ]
In other words, people will happily cut off their nose, just to spite their face.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is a bit uncharitable. Players will tend to engage in in-game activities that they enjoy. If they don't enjoy marketing, they won't do it. And so it should be, CoX is a leisure activity.
The problem is when players think that the way they play is the 'proper' way to play and that the reward system should benefit their playstyle over all other playstyles.
What is best for everyone is if there are many reward systems in the game that benefit different playstyles in different ways. Which is what we have. That's why there are so many currencies in the game.
Marketing is probably the most efficient inf generator per unit time. Which is probably okay, since it is the worst at generating xp.
AE is probably the best combo inf/xp generator in the game. This is probably okay too, since the game is five years old and player-generated content is a good strategy for the game's survival - a core of players can self-generate the content they want in the game and provide a stable revenue base while simultaneously cutting costs.
EDIT: added quote for clarity.