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And also, I'd like to see any purchase of 500mil or more flag that account for investigation of RMT. Before you jump into an uproar, if you earned that Inf the honest way, then you have nothing to worry about.
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you do realize how many accounts that would put under investigation correct? you also do realize having been around since before i9 and the invention system was introduced that alot of people had toons with hundreds of millions sitting around doing nothing? think before you speak, plz.
you also realize that almost anything can be gotten by running a few missions in ae and rolling your tickets. the only acceptions are purples and PvP recipes.
if you guys want more chances to drop things then set your diff to 4 and run regular missions. you will get harder, more populated spawns.
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And also, I'd like to see any purchase of 500mil or more flag that account for investigation of RMT. Before you jump into an uproar, if you earned that Inf the honest way, then you have nothing to worry about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, because treating your customers like criminals is such a fantastic way to keep them subscribed.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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The price caps are COUNTER productive. One of your suggestions helps. The other hurts. Adding a bad idea and a good idea together doesn't make the bad idea acceptable. It's still a bad idea that doesn't work.
I said "one part of your idea is incredibly stupid, pointless, and actually counter-productive at achieving your goals." You said "but the other part is good so that makes it ok". No, no it doesn't make it ok. The one part is still stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_ceiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_shortage
http://economics.fundamentalfinance....ce-ceiling.php
http://ingrimayne.com/econ/Allocatin...sRationer.html
http://student.ccbcmd.edu/courses/ec...7/market05.htm
If you would like I can explain the concepts of "Shortage" in exact detail for you, step by step.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol...Wikipedia makes everyone en expert. Look smurph, if they tripled the drop rate of purples but didnt have a price cap, the market manipulators would just buy them up and flip them still demanding 200 million to a billion inf for one IO.
Perhaps your getting so worked up becuae you realize a price cap would ruin the market manipulators because the only way to make money off the market would be to go out and earn drops rather than use your vast amounts on Inf to push up prices for everyone else.
[ QUOTE ]
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And also, I'd like to see any purchase of 500mil or more flag that account for investigation of RMT. Before you jump into an uproar, if you earned that Inf the honest way, then you have nothing to worry about.
[/ QUOTE ]
you do realize how many accounts that would put under investigation correct? you also do realize having been around since before i9 and the invention system was introduced that alot of people had toons with hundreds of millions sitting around doing nothing? think before you speak, plz.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not that many actually. This game has maybe at most 100K subscribers, and I'd say maybe 1% have ever had more than 1bil on a character at any time. Also, said investigation could most probably be done completely in the background, with an honest customer never even knowing it was happening. Only the guilty would have anything to fear.
[ QUOTE ]
you also realize that almost anything can be gotten by running a few missions in ae and rolling your tickets. the only acceptions are purples and PvP recipes.
if you guys want more chances to drop things then set your diff to 4 and run regular missions. you will get harder, more populated spawns.
[/ QUOTE ]
How else do you think I've been purpling my toons dude? I'm farming just as hard, if not harder than most, and I'm getting REALLY tired of having to farm for my shinies. And it's not "a few missions". I'm talking about 8-12 hours of farming missions on Ruthless only to get 1 or no purples. And after hours of working making that inf, do I WANT to drop 500mil on a single recipe? Hell no! The drop rate is sick, it needs fixing. The simple fact some people are willing to spend upwards of 500mil for a recipe mean they don't have respect for that amount of currency, which means it was probably rather easy to come by.
what part about "it is the PURCHASER that sets the price" don't you understand jd? seriously, if people weren't willing to pay the high price and GETITNAO then prices would still be around the norm. what happens though is people who don't understand the market see the high prices people who WANTITNAO have paid and then list what they are selling at a higher price then that figuring that is the normal going price.
next time you get a purple drop sell it and see how much you get for it. the whole idea of a market house is that the person with the highest bid wins. some people go out of their way and list something high and buy it with another of their toons at a high price to drive up prices which is bad market ethics.
the only purples that seem to be doing this though are the melle, ranged, targeted aoe and pbaoe. the damage sets. because eveyone uses them. notice the hlod, immob, confuse and sleep are still relatively cheap. although some are starting to creep up due to alot more control toons being made.
also remember that prices went up as soon as the AE came out. when they doubled from 50 mil to 100 mil in 2 weeks i suggested to everyone i knew that we should be running regular farms for a while to keep purples in the market and prices down. but guess what, the fast xp was an addiction to them and the AE is where they stayed. and where they stay to this day. at least until dbl xp weekend, then back to AE they go. see the problem there. AE rewards are where the money is at this point.
somone in another thread had pointed out that when your account logs in it is flagged with a number that is tied onto the RNG. i don't remember the post word for word so i won't try to explain it but i do remember that it is that number that deems what drops you get and how frequently you get drops.
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The price caps are COUNTER productive. One of your suggestions helps. The other hurts. Adding a bad idea and a good idea together doesn't make the bad idea acceptable. It's still a bad idea that doesn't work.
I said "one part of your idea is incredibly stupid, pointless, and actually counter-productive at achieving your goals." You said "but the other part is good so that makes it ok". No, no it doesn't make it ok. The one part is still stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_ceiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_shortage
http://economics.fundamentalfinance....ce-ceiling.php
http://ingrimayne.com/econ/Allocatin...sRationer.html
http://student.ccbcmd.edu/courses/ec...7/market05.htm
If you would like I can explain the concepts of "Shortage" in exact detail for you, step by step.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol...Wikipedia makes everyone en expert. Look smurph, if they tripled the drop rate of purples but didnt have a price cap, the market manipulators would just buy them up and flip them still demanding 200 million to a billion inf for one IO.
Perhaps your getting so worked up becuae you realize a price cap would ruin the market manipulators because the only way to make money off the market would be to go out and earn drops rather than use your vast amounts on Inf to push up prices for everyone else.
[/ QUOTE ]
A Price Cap would be a blessing to market manipulators. We want a price cap. A price cap would line my pockets full of cash. I'd be the richest player in City of Heroes by hundreds of miles. Players would flock to me and beg me to sell them items at insanely ridiculous prices because they cannot be obtained on the market. Your choices would be to stand in line with everyone else for the items that sell out instantly where everyone has 100 bids out and none are ever for sale OR you can buy from me at whatever price I think I can gouge people for. *EDIT* A vender selling IOs at low price would absolutely butcher marketeers, however.
Supply and Demand cause prices to go where they go. Ebil manipulators do NOT cause prices to rise above where Supply and Demand dictate the prices would go. You can see this on the market when you consider the ramifications of what would occur if evil marketeers did take such action.
When prices are "too low" a shortage occurs. In a shortage items are usually sold out and it is super hard to find any items to buy. When prices are "too high" there is a surplus. In a surplus many items are attempting to be sold at market prices but few are actually being sold. Is this occurring in the City of Heroes markets? No. Items are being sold very quickly. An abundance of availability is not building up.
You can run an experiment at MY expense so you can learn that Supply and Demand do work in the City of Heroes markets and that Ebil Manipulators are not causing prices to rise above Equilibrium Price.
I will give you a pile of money. You pick a salvage of some kind. You buy and buy it then try and sell it for 10% higher. Start low and see what happens. At the low price you will probably buy very few but sell what you get very quickly. As you increase your price you will, at some point, get near a point where you buy roughly as fast as you sell. This point would be "Equilibrium Price". As you keep increasing the price you will see that buy MUCH faster than you sell. Sure, you've increased the price but because you are buying more than you sell you aren't making money. You have a huge inventory build up. If you tried to sell all of these at the same time you would be unable to do so at your inflated price.
The trick is understanding that Equilibrium Price is always changing. Marketeers understand this concept and buy at the lowest points and sell at the highest points.
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do I WANT to drop 500mil on a single recipe?
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get out of the IWANTITNAO mind set and place a bid that is just enough to get what you want and wait. that is how i do it. might take a day or a week. but you will get it.
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Ebil manipulators do NOT cause prices to rise above where Supply and Demand dictate the prices would go.
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LOL...ok.
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Ebil manipulators do NOT cause prices to rise above where Supply and Demand dictate the prices would go.
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LOL...ok.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am willing to prove this to you at my own expense. I am willing to prove this to anyone at my own expense.
Put up or shut up.
*EDIT*
Really, ask any economics professor at any university. Ask them what occurs when prices are above Equilibrium Price. Ask them what symptoms would be like in such a market.
Ask them how one could artificially raise prices above equilibrium price AND maintain that price AND make a profit. Write to any of them. Please, show me the letters and show the responses.
Run the experiment yourself. See how long you last making profits. I'll give you money.
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do I WANT to drop 500mil on a single recipe?
[/ QUOTE ]
get out of the IWANTITNAO mind set and place a bid that is just enough to get what you want and wait. that is how i do it. might take a day or a week. but you will get it.
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I currently have 3 bids outstanding for an Armageddon triple and 2 Apocalypse triples. Each bid is for slightly over 100mil, and have been sitting for a month. I WANT those recipes, but considering the amount of work it takes me to make 100mil, I believe they are not worth more than that. Yet people are paying 200-500mil redside for these. I guess they want it more NAO than I do, and have more spare time to make that inf. Mr. Quint, stop acting like everyone around you is a noob and get over yourself. Not everyone thinks 10-25% of the inf cap for a single recipe is a worthwhile investment.
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Ebil manipulators do NOT cause prices to rise above where Supply and Demand dictate the prices would go.
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LOL...ok.
[/ QUOTE ]
Only people with zero experience make statements as uninformed as yours.
Go flip some stuff and you'll find out Smurph is right. I bet he'll even give you the inf for it.
(cue the usual "I totally would but uh I don't wanna, but I'm right anyway!" babble)
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
[ QUOTE ]
Run the experiment yourself. See how long you last making profits. I'll give you money.
[/ QUOTE ]
See?
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
You come in here like your [censored] dont stink end all market genius and expect me to just be like Ok smurphy said no so I'll shut up now. You voiced your opinion...I voiced mine. We disagree. Get over it and calm down. Your taking this [censored] way to personal Smurph.
I think drop rates need increased on purples, and there needs to be some sort of price cap wether it be 150 mil or 500 mil. That is MY OPINION. You disagree and have stated that like 10 times now. Got it. You can go back to your ITFs on test now.
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[ QUOTE ]
The price caps are COUNTER productive. One of your suggestions helps. The other hurts. Adding a bad idea and a good idea together doesn't make the bad idea acceptable. It's still a bad idea that doesn't work.
I said "one part of your idea is incredibly stupid, pointless, and actually counter-productive at achieving your goals." You said "but the other part is good so that makes it ok". No, no it doesn't make it ok. The one part is still stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_ceiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_shortage
http://economics.fundamentalfinance....ce-ceiling.php
http://ingrimayne.com/econ/Allocatin...sRationer.html
http://student.ccbcmd.edu/courses/ec...7/market05.htm
If you would like I can explain the concepts of "Shortage" in exact detail for you, step by step.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol...Wikipedia makes everyone en expert. Look smurph, if they tripled the drop rate of purples but didnt have a price cap, the market manipulators would just buy them up and flip them still demanding 200 million to a billion inf for one IO.
Perhaps your getting so worked up becuae you realize a price cap would ruin the market manipulators because the only way to make money off the market would be to go out and earn drops rather than use your vast amounts on Inf to push up prices for everyone else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlikely. Prior to AE purples hovered around 30 mil. Since the only content that was available had standard drops that was the equilibrium price. Costume recipies were in the 50,000 - 100,000 range. 3 days ago I sold a pair of rocket boots for 2.5 mil, and a set of tech wings 1.3 mil.
It's pretty clear that MA is the cause since that is the only thing that happened between those 2 points and those recipes can't be bought with tickets.
It seems strange to me that you can see how and why the price would climb with those mechanics but that you can't see how prices would begin dropping back to pre-MA levels if supply returned to pre-MA levels.
BTW Smurph is a RL economist (I minored in economics when I was in college that one of the reasons I hang out in this forum section) his advice makes sense. Instead of loling at him you should actually take it upon your self to read those articles. The wiki is dumbed down enough that even someone with out any economic background can get something out of it.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
It's funny, the people that spend thier time manipulating the market and getting rich off it, can't understand why I wouldn't take thier word as law? Go figure.
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but the majority of folks that spend more time actual playing thru content shouldn't have to pay the price becuase folks like you rather spend their time manipulating the market.
[/ QUOTE ]
I spend my time playing quite a bit of content (just finished the somewhat horrible Willy Wheeler in fact).
I should have to pay high prices for items that are scarce that I can't get by other means.
Scarce item = low supply = high price (if it's in demand).
I use the other side of the equation when selling, I fully expect the other side of the coin when I go to buy if I don't feel like being patient with my bids.
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
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do I WANT to drop 500mil on a single recipe?
[/ QUOTE ]
get out of the IWANTITNAO mind set and place a bid that is just enough to get what you want and wait. that is how i do it. might take a day or a week. but you will get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I currently have 3 bids outstanding for an Armageddon triple and 2 Apocalypse triples. Each bid is for slightly over 100mil, and have been sitting for a month. I WANT those recipes, but considering the amount of work it takes me to make 100mil, I believe they are not worth more than that. Yet people are paying 200-500mil redside for these. I guess they want it more NAO than I do, and have more spare time to make that inf. Mr. Quint, stop acting like everyone around you is a noob and get over yourself. Not everyone thinks 10-25% of the inf cap for a single recipe is a worthwhile investment.
[/ QUOTE ]
so what are you doing with the drops that you get that you don't need? selling them to a vendor? why not spend some time at the market doing some research bout the recipe and made enhancement and see which is going for more then sell it in the way that will get you the highest amount. doesn't take a genius to figure that out. then you won't just be earning inf from doing the run but also from marketing your stuff you don't want/need at this time.
oh and just because most people stil don't seem to understand: PURPLES ARE SUPPOSSED TO BE ULTRA RARE. get over it.
i have plenty of toons that i would like to have purples in but i don't. big freakin deal. i wait for them to drop or wait for a bid to fill.
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You come in here like your [censored] dont stink end all market genius and expect me to just be like Ok smurphy said no so I'll shut up now. You voiced your opinion...I voiced mine. We disagree. Get over it and calm down. Your taking this [censored] way to personal Smurph.
I think drop rates need increased on purples, and there needs to be some sort of price cap wether it be 150 mil or 500 mil. That is MY OPINION. You disagree and have stated that like 10 times now. Got it. You can go back to your ITFs on test now.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can't have an opinion on objective facts...they're either right or wrong! I have a relative who posted on Facebook, "It's 103 degrees outside and my landscapers are doing the lawn. I'm glad I'm not Mexican!!" I called her out as a racist and she said that was my opinion and we'd have to agree to disagree. (TRUE STORY, BTW) No, she is a racist. There's no opinion involved.
Price caps would create a black market and things would be more expensive, that's just a fact. "Market manipulators" don't make the prices climb. Prices climb because people have more money than they know what to do with from farming AE...which btw cause purple supply to decrease! If you coose not to believe in economics or evolution or a round planet or anything else that's objectively true, you should probably get used to people getting upset with your obtuseness.
Think about these interesting conundrums.
1. Why don't ebil marketeers cause other items to go higher in price? Why don't ebil marketeers cause common salvage to go for 100,000,000? Perhaps there is some "force" restricting them.
2. Many purple recipes are sold out. If they are sold out how are ebil marketeers manipulating them? "But Smurphy, they are just buying them all and selling them for more!" No, that doesn't work. How do they make a profit and prevent competition. A marketeer needs to sell 10% higher than the price he buys. So if a marketeer buys at 50,000,000 he needs to sell at 55,555,555 just to break even. If the marketeer is buying at 50M, why aren't you buying at 50M + 1 and screwing him over?
3. If marketeers were manipulating prices above Equilibrium price they would be buying more than they sold. Is this occurring? Where are all my excess piles of recipes I should have 
4. Why do obvious increases or decreases in Supply and Demand alone seem to have their obvious effects on the market? Is this a conspiracy between all the marketeers to "adjust" their prices to make people like me merely "think" Supply and Demand work? Is it really them just pretending.
Take these examples:
Costume Recipes: Supply Increases, price decreases.
Mission Architect: Supply deceases on purples, price increases.
PvP IOs: Supply decreases due to drop changes, price increases.
Halloween Events: Supply increases, price decreases over event week.
Knockback IOs: Tickets allow easy bronze rolling, Supply increases, price decreases
2XP Weekend: Everyone earns double infamy but same items, demand increases, price increases.
Is it all just a giant marketeer conspiracy or does Supply and Demand actually work? Why can I make all the prices go to 2 billion and make a profit?
[ QUOTE ]
Really, ask any economics professor at any university. Ask them what occurs when prices are above Equilibrium Price. Ask them what symptoms would be like in such a market.
Ask them how one could artificially raise prices above equilibrium price AND maintain that price AND make a profit. Write to any of them. Please, show me the letters and show the responses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously? You want me to write professors about a video game? I'll pass.
Look, I'm sure you know alot more about economics than me, but this isn't as complicated as real world economics. I'm sure you know what you talking about with the whole
Equilibrium Price thing, but I don't think it has jack to do with this situation. I'm not talking about trying to buy up all of one type of cheap recipe. I'm talking about purple recipes that are so rare you only have to buy 5 or 6 a month to control them. If you have the Inf, anyone can do it.
We agree that lack of supply is the main culprit, but even when supply of purples goes back up, the supply will remain low enough that it is easy to completely control the price by buying everyone that hits the market IF you are an evil marketeer with billions saved up. When there is only one or two of something listed per month, there is always going to be someone out of the thousands that play this game that is willing to pay it...even if it means buying inf from a .com, which is even worse for the game.
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Market manipulators" don't make the prices climb.
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To be fair, this statement is not accurate. Many marketeers have identified prices in a shortage, raised the price, and profited. A "shortage" being a price where more items were willing and able to be bought than willing and able to be sold.
The most famous example of this is low level Luck of the Gamblers in pre-merit days. They used to appear on the market and sell for 5-20M or less. They would always sell out instantly. Some enterprising marketeers bid 20-30m across the board and listed the items for much higher. Prices were raised. Profits were achieved. Equilibrium was established.
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Look, I'm sure you know alot more about economics than me, but this isn't as complicated as real world economics.
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Which should, in theory, make it all the more easy to identify and isolate Supply and Demand.
[ QUOTE ]
We agree that lack of supply is the main culprit, but even when supply of purples goes back up, the supply will remain low enough that it is easy to completely control the price by buying everyone that hits the market IF you are an evil marketeer with billions saved up. When there is only one or two of something listed per month, there is always going to be someone out of the thousands that play this game that is willing to pay it...even if it means buying inf from a .com, which is even worse for the game.
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And when I buy 6 for 200M and sell one for 300M how did I make any profits?
*EDIT*I am aware and I do know marketeers who do artificially raise prices above Supply and Demand just to tick people off. However, no profits are made. Essentially they are throwing money into the wind.
[ QUOTE ]
You come in here like your [censored] dont stink end all market genius and expect me to just be like Ok smurphy said no so I'll shut up now. You voiced your opinion...I voiced mine. We disagree. Get over it and calm down. Your taking this [censored] way to personal Smurph.
I think drop rates need increased on purples, and there needs to be some sort of price cap wether it be 150 mil or 500 mil. That is MY OPINION. You disagree and have stated that like 10 times now. Got it. You can go back to your ITFs on test now.
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Lol. When my grand daughter was in 1st grade she was of the opinion that 5+3=9. She got it wrong on her math test but she insisted that it was right (repeatedly) until I got out a bag of marbles and showed her (repeatedly) that 5+3=8 no matter which color marbles you use. That was her opinion until she was able to grasp the math behind it in other terms.
As far as the rest of your statement goes. There is a hard price cap on the market. It's 2 bil inf.
As far as the drop rates on purples go the devs didn't change a thing. The players decided which drops and what content they wanted to pursue. If you want cheap purples you should try convicing everyone in the game to get out of the MA. Prices will drop right back to where they were pre-MA.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Good grief. How ignorant do you have to be to claim "market manipulation" over and over again?
And the combination of solutions doesn't make sense. Which is it? Is it the drop rate or the ebil marketeering? It's either one or the other. If it's truly the "market manipulation" screwing everything up then why do you want drop rates increased at all?
If it's just "market manipulation" then why were you EVER able to purple out a toon for what you deem an appropriate amount? And why isn't EVERYTHING incredibly expensive if all it takes is a few ebilers to jack the prices up?
And the notion that you have to not play content and focus on the market to make money is patently absurd. It is shameful how easy it is to make influence in this game. No one in this forum has any idea who I am. I'm not a regular poster here, I don't read the guides here. But I can make enough money to buy pretty much anything I want over a relatively short period of time. I purpled out one of my characters a month ago and it certainly didn't cost me a billion per purple set.
The bottom line is, stop whining. If you want the elite loot, then work for it. There are several different avenues to go about that. If you don't want to put int he effort (as minimal as it is) be happy with the slightly less elite loot that will let you perform almost as well.
Or just keep whining. There's always that option.
The price caps are COUNTER productive. One of your suggestions helps. The other hurts. Adding a bad idea and a good idea together doesn't make the bad idea acceptable. It's still a bad idea that doesn't work.
I said "one part of your idea is incredibly stupid, pointless, and actually counter-productive at achieving your goals." You said "but the other part is good so that makes it ok". No, no it doesn't make it ok. The one part is still stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_ceiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_shortage
http://economics.fundamentalfinance....ce-ceiling.php
http://ingrimayne.com/econ/Allocatin...sRationer.html
http://student.ccbcmd.edu/courses/ec...7/market05.htm
If you would like I can explain the concepts of "Shortage" in exact detail for you, step by step.