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I Io'd my main brute out about a year ago with 3 purple sets and a bunch of 7.5% LotG and other uniques. It took a little over a billion inf, which was all I had combined on all my charcters, but I pooled my funds together and made it happen. It was worth it.
Fast forward to today. I'm all excited about Brutes getting claws and have decided a Claws/WP brute is going to be my second build worth IOing out. So I wander over to the BM to start pre-purchasing the expensive uniques and purples to stash away in my base while I wait for issue 16 to arrive. To my surprise I see that not only can I no longer IO out my brute with a billion inf...I can't even buy a full purplr set with a billion inf!
So seriously Devs, do you want purple sets to be THAT rare that they cost over a billion inf? It would seem this ridiculous inflation is either do to a.) all people do is farm AE which equals no purples, b.) folks are just buying inf from those dirtbag .com sites, or c.) a little of both.
I don't have an answer, but this [censored] is ridiculous. You put things into the game and then create a situation where only folks that farm AE 24/7, or purchase infamy from an offsite .com can afford to buy them.....which motivates people to farm even more and buy more infamy from offsite .coms. Please do something.....
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They are. Issue 16 allows us to set team size you bet your.. something.. farmers will leave AE and go farm purples.
Edit please close your tags so it doesn't wreck the text of people quoting you.
The additional difficulty settings might be just the 'something' you're looking for. If a single player can reliably take out 6-8 man spawns without any sort of XP/Inf/drop rate penalty, then the price of purples with certainly drop.
There's a third revenue source you didn't mention, however: the market itself.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
The devs don't read the market forum. The people that do read the market forums are already aware of this situation and have discussed it many many times. Feel free to read up on it and see if your conclusions are correct!
I'm sure it has been mentioned, but is a price cap pretty much frowned upon? If $150 million was set as the absolute highest price you could list something at, it would help a little. I think $150 million infamy is quite a bit, and personaly don't feel any one item should be selling for more than that. Just my opinion of course, but I'm curious what kind of feedback a price cap has recieved in the past?
Also, shouldn't there be a formula for drops? Like if there are 100k subscribers, then there should be around 100 purple drops a month. Just random numbers here, but my point is if the ratio of purple drops decreases dramaticly, which it has due to the MA addiction, shouldn't the drop rate be raised to compinsate?
I would just think the Devs would have a general idea of an amount of rares they want to be dropping, and if that # drops to 1/4 or 1/2 of what they are expecting...they would raise the drop rate. If people leave the MA or whatever and too many purples start dropping, then they lower it again. Am I wrong to expect this type of micro managing the game economy?
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I'm sure it has been mentioned, but is a price cap pretty much frowned upon? If $150 million was set as the absolute highest price you could list something at, it would help a little. I think $150 million infamy is quite a bit, and personaly don't feel any one item should be selling for more than that. Just my opinion of course, but I'm curious what kind of feedback a price cap has recieved in the past?
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No, a price cap would do the opposite of helping. A price cap actually makes prices go higher. A vendor who sold IOs at a certain price would limit market prices to that amount. Forcing the market not to allow prices over a certain amount would not limit prices, however.
Imagine Luck of the Gambler: Increased Recharges being forced to sell for only 5,000,000. Many people would be willing and able to buy them. There'd be lines for miles and miles. This price cap would create an economic shortage. A shortage is a price where more are willing to pay than to sell. You, and many others might be willing to pay 5,000,000 but they are all sold out. When one appears on the market it sells instantly.
What will happen is LotGs will begin to be sold off market in a true "black market." You can wait in line with the other gazillion people to try and buy at 5,000,000 or you can buy from me, off market, for 100,000,000. Only one of the methods is actually going to get you the IO you want in a period of time not measured in years.
I see what your saying, but 5 mil and 150 mil are not the same thing. Most casual gamers can't afford 150 million inf, so I don't think the scenerio you speak of would happen. All it would really do is cap the rarest of the rare at $150 instead of some IOs climbing into the 300s, 400s, and beyond. I mean how far are we from billion inf IOs? There is a point where you gotta just say this is broken and alienating too many folks.
Players set the price, if they are willing to pay 1 billion influence for a single enhancement then so be it.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Even if it's only 5% of the community that can do that? You don't think it's in the best interest of the game to set some sort of limits that keep a higher percentage of people involved and interested in the market/IO game? I just think if the vast majority of players look at an IO they want and see it's going for 10x as much Inf than they have ever had, it's depressing and not good for the game.
I know alot of folks, especially in this part of the forum, like to play the market and are very good at it. They are able to rack up billions and don't want any restrcitons that will hinder them. However, this is first and foremost a comic book hero/villain MMO and if a mini game like playing the market starst to have negative effects on the broader community...then it's in the Devs best interest to do what's needed to fix that issue. In this part of the forum I'm sure most of you don't wanna hear that and I'll get negative comments, but it is true.
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I see what your saying, but 5 mil and 150 mil are not the same thing. Most casual gamers can't afford 150 million inf, so I don't think the scenerio you speak of would happen. All it would really do is cap the rarest of the rare at $150 instead of some IOs climbing into the 300s, 400s, and beyond. I mean how far are we from billion inf IOs? There is a point where you gotta just say this is broken and alienating too many folks.
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You are simply wrong. What I said would happen. Prices are a factor of BOTH Supply and Demand. You appear to be struggling to comprehend the "Supply" side of the equation.
If only 1 item of a certain type is found and willingly sold that item will be sold to the single one person willing to pay the most. Purples work like this "one item a month". Incredibly few are found. They are sold to the incredibly few people who are willing to pay the most.
They are expensive because they are rare. It takes a rare bidder to be able to afford one. Supply and Demand.
If you feel that Purple recipes should be more accessible that is understandable. That isn't an issue solved by the Black Market/Wentworth's nor constraints placed on the BM/WW. That is an issue solved by adjusting drop rates.
We've already had one specific IO sell for a billion, and then a billion two.
If only 5% of the community can afford to buy an IO, then a price cap will not change that, except that now it will be 5% of the community who are lucky enough for their bid to go through. There's still only enough supply for 5% of the market.
And whatever cap you set, people are going to buy up as many as they are able to and sell them on the side off-market for more, if it's something people want.
What you really want is more supply. That brings prices down.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Some of what is going on with the higher priced items is obviously flipping.
It takes money to make money.
The price that items sell for is what people are willing to pay for them (the high price) or the price that someone puts something on the market because they want it to sell (the low price).
With Purples, ebil marketeers (as they have been called) can find the sweet spot to set up "price traps" to purchase all of these at what they are willing to grab them for and then re-mark the pricing to whatever they think will eventually sell.
If you are on the low-end in the market, you usually want to turn things fast to make a profit, but - if you are able to make a hundred million plus on one transaction - that slot can sit there for a while.
I know I've done this. I don't usually slot purples. I have slotted them, but it was more by accident than anything else. To me, they are much more useful in milking inf out of the players that want to be L337, Uber, or whatever you want to call the dime-store sucker I'm getting rich off of.
I craft that baby purple and start my search for a good price point. I go high. It might take a month or a month plus to sell, but I'm patient and crafty.
Craft on, Crafta!
So there's how the chips fall. <ul type="square">[*]Ultra-rare means that there aren't many of them. Supply versus demand. You want them; there aren't many of them; so the price is high.[*]Ebil Marketeer flipping. The Ebil Marketeers know you want them. They know how to get them. They know how to sell to the highest bidder (aka how far players will be willing to go to get these things)[*]Get your fair share of the loot! It isn't Ebil to see a Purple IO that you crafted! Even if it's for the same price as the Ebil'r of the Market PvPrs. You have a right to that inf as well! Craft and sell your Purples for fun and profit. Remember it isn't a race. Price to sell high![*]"Give the characters something to do at level 50" says the players! "Give them something to chase after that will take them a while to achieve" says the DEVs! And Ultra-rare Purples were born. Yeah, they are that rare.[/list]
So who's driving up the price of Purple IO's?
Obviously players that don't want them are the ones selling them. Otherwise they would be slotting them and you can't sell them while they are slotted, right?
So the players that don't care about purple IO sets are the ones making profits off the Purple IO sets (or are flipping them to get money to buy their own IO sets, but still - even so - they must not really "want" that one that they are flipping otherwise they would be slotting it!) ... or do I mean the character that bought it ....
Yeah, they are about that rare.
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Some of what is going on with the higher priced items is obviously flipping.
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So the fact that all the prices rises have been concurrent with mechanics changes is pure coincidence, then?
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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Some of what is going on with the higher priced items is obviously flipping.
It takes money to make money.
The price that items sell for is what people are willing to pay for them (the high price) or the price that someone puts something on the market because they want it to sell (the low price).
With Purples, ebil marketeers (as they have been called) can find the sweet spot to set up "price traps" to purchase all of these at what they are willing to grab them for and then re-mark the pricing to whatever they think will eventually sell.
If you are on the low-end in the market, you usually want to turn things fast to make a profit, but - if you are able to make a hundred million plus on one transaction - that slot can sit there for a while.
I know I've done this. I don't usually slot purples. I have slotted them, but it was more by accident than anything else. To me, they are much more useful in milking inf out of the players that want to be L337, Uber, or whatever you want to call the dime-store sucker I'm getting rich off of.
I craft that baby purple and start my search for a good price point. I go high. It might take a month or a month plus to sell, but I'm patient and crafty.
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Ebil Marketeers are not to blame in the manner you suggest they are to blame. Supply and Demand cross at a certain price. That crossing is where prices "tend to go" in any free market. Prices below that point cause "shortages". Shortages exist when more wish to buy than to sell at that specific price. In a shortage items are difficult to find and there is little availability. Shortages, colloquially, mean "sold out" stuff.
Prices above the crossing of Supply and Demand (known as Equilibrium Price), are Surplus prices. Surpluses exist when more wish to sell at that price than wish to buy. Surpluses tend to have items overly available. Lots and lots of items sit around waiting for a buyer to come along.
Look at the market now. Look how many purple recipes are sold out. Marketeers aren't buying them and waiting and waiting for buyers to come along. Many purple recipes are sold out or almost sold out. That is a strong indication that flippers are NOT driving prices above the Equilibrium Price, also known as the price where Supply and Demand cross, also known as the price that a free market will gravitate towards, also known as the price that SHOULD exist, also known as "price."
I've been complaining about the same thing for a year. lol. No luck yet as the purp prices went from 30 mil to 200 mil... I just farm PI and craft and keep them in the base for a build that may need them. So far, my farmer has 19 purps on her and i have 4 more purps in a bin and a couple numinas.
The only thing that is said here is "play the market", "become ebil", "nothing is wrong with the drop rate", " the game is still set to SO's, you dont need purples".....blah blah blah....
I say when hundreds of people are bidding and less than 5 are able to be purchased, something is wrong, imo. Allows too much manipulation to be had by greedy players. No heroes are gonna be found in CoH.
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Even if it's only 5% of the community that can do that? You don't think it's in the best interest of the game to set some sort of limits that keep a higher percentage of people involved and interested in the market/IO game? I just think if the vast majority of players look at an IO they want and see it's going for 10x as much Inf than they have ever had, it's depressing and not good for the game.
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What I read in that is instant gratification, people tend to forget that when you want the best you have to work hard for it, and these enhancements provide something for people to work hard for.
I started off broke and made myself into a billionaire, I don't play hours on end every day sometimes I don't even play for a day or two but I learned to use the market to teach myself how to make money, and the only argument that I have ever read against that is well not everyone wants to use the market to make money and my answer has always been well then you better start grinding now.
If you are presented a tool that can make you work 5 times faster doing 2 times less work wouldn't you use it? That is what the market is.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Santorican. I already stated above my opinion that this isn't a game about economy and market manipulation, it's a game about comic book super heroes that has an economy. I know there are some that only play the market and never run around doing missions, SFs, or other content, but they are the minority. Good for you that you made Billions of the market alone, but the majority of folks that spend more time actual playing thru content shouldn't have to pay the price becuase folks like you rather spend their time manipulating the market.
Playing the market is just one small aspect of a larger game. I'm not asking for instant gratification. All I'm saying is the Devs might wanna think about creating some boundries that stop a minority from greatly affecting the majority in a negative way. IMO setting a price cap and adjusting the drop rates is a good place to start.
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Santorican. I already stated above my opinion that this isn't a game about economy and market manipulation, it's a game about comic book super heroes that has an economy. I know there are some that only play the market and never run around doing missions, SFs, or other content, but they are the minority. Playing the market is just one small aspect of a larger game. I'm not asking for instant gratification. All I'm saying is the Devs might wanna think about creating some boundries that stop a minority from greatly affecting the majority in a negative way. IMO setting a price cap and adjusting the drop rates is a good place to start.
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A price cap will just create black markets.
and a price cap will see everything listed at the price cap. the only reason things have shot up is supply is low and demand high. that is what happens when eveyone is getting new 50's and want's to trick them out. if you run regular missions with your 50's you will drop the things that you want eventually. and the things that you don't want you can sell at the market and get infl/inf to fund your purchases.
remember, the market is not a store, it is an auction house, where the highest bidder wins. place your bid and wait and if you drop what you want before having your bid filled then drop the bid and you get your money back.
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Playing the market is just one small aspect of a larger game. I'm not asking for instant gratification. All I'm saying is the Devs might wanna think about creating some boundries that stop a minority from greatly affecting the majority in a negative way. IMO setting a price cap and adjusting the drop rates is a good place to start.
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I cannot comprehend how a rational person could contemplate price caps being a good idea to increase the availability of items after receiving an explanation of how they work and what would occur. If by price caps you mean "vendors selling at specific prices" then that actually would work. However, if you mean actual price caps on the market then you need to stop and think.
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you run regular missions with your 50's you will drop the things that you want eventually
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You would think, but I personally have never had a purple drop and all I do is play my 50s. Something is wrong there. On top of that, everytime it comes up in game there are long time vets saying the same thing. Should anything be that rare?
Personally all I'd like the devs to do is simply increase drop rates and reduce merit/ticket values across the board. Simply increase the supply and don't make us work so hard for the shinies we want.
And also, I'd like to see any purchase of 500mil or more flag that account for investigation of RMT. Before you jump into an uproar, if you earned that Inf the honest way, then you have nothing to worry about.
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Playing the market is just one small aspect of a larger game. I'm not asking for instant gratification. All I'm saying is the Devs might wanna think about creating some boundries that stop a minority from greatly affecting the majority in a negative way. IMO setting a price cap and adjusting the drop rates is a good place to start.
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I cannot comprehend how a rational person could contemplate price caps being a good idea to increase the availability of items after receiving an explanation of how they work and what would occur. If by price caps you mean "vendors selling at specific prices" then that actually would work. However, if you mean actual price caps on the market then you need to stop and think.
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I cannot comprehend how a rational person could not see that I'm talking about adjusting the drop rate AND using a price cap.
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Santorican. I already stated above my opinion that this isn't a game about economy and market manipulation, it's a game about comic book super heroes that has an economy. I know there are some that only play the market and never run around doing missions, SFs, or other content, but they are the minority. Good for you that you made Billions of the market alone, but the majority of folks that spend more time actual playing thru content shouldn't have to pay the price becuase folks like you rather spend their time manipulating the market.
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The game is the game.
If you don't enjoy the market, great- running missions and selling your junk will make you enough inf for just about any build you want.
If you feel you're entitled to the top tier loot without making the effort to attain it, that's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with your expectations.
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Playing the market is just one small aspect of a larger game.
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So is everything else. TFs, door missions, AE, RP, whatever.
The game is the game.
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I'm not asking for instant gratification. All I'm saying is the Devs might wanna think about creating some boundries that stop a minority from greatly affecting the majority in a negative way.
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Please detail this eebil scheme so I explain in detail why you're wrong. TIA.
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IMO setting a price cap and adjusting the drop rates is a good place to start.
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RagmanX would LOVE this!
I doubt you would, though.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I Io'd my main brute out about a year ago with 3 purple sets and a bunch of 7.5% LotG and other uniques. It took a little over a billion inf, which was all I had combined on all my charcters, but I pooled my funds together and made it happen. It was worth it.
Fast forward to today. I'm all excited about Brutes getting claws and have decided a Claws/WP brute is going to be my second build worth IOing out. So I wander over to the BM to start pre-purchasing the expensive uniques and purples to stash away in my base while I wait for issue 16 to arrive. To my surprise I see that not only can I no longer IO out my brute with a billion inf...I can't even buy a full purplr set with a billion inf!
So seriously Devs, do you want purple sets to be THAT rare that they cost over a billion inf? It would seem this ridiculous inflation is either do to a.) all people do is farm AE which equals no purples, b.) folks are just buying inf from those dirtbag .com sites, or c.) a little of both.
I don't have an answer, but this [censored] is ridiculous. You put things into the game and then create a situation where only folks that farm AE 24/7, or purchase infamy from an offsite .com can afford to buy them.....which motivates people to farm even more and buy more infamy from offsite .coms. Please do [b][i]something.....