[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you mean by "force multiplier".
[/ QUOTE ]
A capability that, when added to and employed by a combat force, significantly increases the combat potential of that force and thus enhances the probability of successful mission accomplishment.
[ QUOTE ]
My character IS built to solo. I did skip the team stuff. I will admit, and readily, that this is a bit of a concept build (I'll post it below), but the fact remains that he can neither do damage nor avoid damage, and that is what this game boils down to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Others have already explained how and given examples of Defenders that can solo just fine. You do seem to be missing the point however that a Defender's primary role is to support and enhance an entire team.
A scrapper cannot make an entire team do 100% more damage, nor can a scrapper provide an entire team with 90% damage mitigation. Personally, for me, when building a team, I'll take a defender any day of the week over a scrapper.
[ QUOTE ]
If an Emp/Nrg is soloing missions, he's doing it with barely more than one power set, since Emp is largely useless to the Defender himself.
[/ QUOTE ] Once again, you seem to be missing the whole point of the Defender AT.
[ QUOTE ]
That is, if we start from the same starting point, all the classes should be the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, all AT's should not be the same. Making everything the same does not equate with balance.
[ QUOTE ]
If Defenders are to be squishy, they have to have a strength to compensate. Being able to buff a team is not compensation, because it's only a part-time boon.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've already said it, but you're missing the whole point of the AT.
<QR>
[ QUOTE ]
That is, if we start from the same starting point, all the classes should be the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another perfect summation of YOUR problem.
First, let me say a couple of things. This thread is not about me personally, and insults and denigration will not be tolerated. I have already notified the moderators, accusing someone of trolling is against the forum rules.
Now, I do appreciate the constructive comments and discussion. I'll try not to miss anyone's comments.
Twilightphoenix:
An interesting build. Nifty demo. I'll point out, however, that the character has only 10-12% Defense, no resistance and half the damage output of the Scrapper without Criticals.
As I say, mine is something of a concept build, being an Iron Man homage, so the need for some significant melee ability had to be considered. It may not be optimal, but I consider it a flaw in the class if you have to build one specific way to be viable.
As I say, though, and interesting demonstration.
PC_Guy
Storm and Sonic, both of which debuff, and fighting at high level. I've already said that debuff sets seem to do fairly well, and that the problem exists more significantly at lower level.
Uberguy
I'm well intentioned, and I've some expertise with certain ATs and power sets, but there are some that I've just never played even after all these years. I've not really ever played Defense oriented sets because Defense seems to me to be all but worthless. However, I'm told that changes at higher level, so I thought to give it a better chance.
I am very concerned about balance. I can't tell you why, but finding an imbalance in a system, whether it be a game, a law an insurance company or whatever, just grates on me. In this case, it's simply like this: Both characters have to be able to accomplish the same things in the game, but one is largely unable to to it - there's a disparity between the ATs (at least, that I'm seeing). I just want to see a more level playing field.
I am strongly opinionated, and I'm somewhat stubborn, but I'm not inflexible, as I've already shown. More than enough evidence has been shown that debuffing sets perform well, so I've conceded that point and focused on the buffing sets.
But enough about me.
G_Tanker
As I said, I wasn't aware that buffs and debuffs were additive. I thought they got weaker with additional applications. Comes from not generally using them.
Defenders bring a lot to a team, that's true. I've never said otherwise. The problem is that they're hampered solo (at least, buffing sets are), at lower level. It may improve at higher level, I'll have to wait and see.
My posts are not pointless. I think we've had some good discussion, and I've learned a thing or two already. I'm not looking for a solo powerhouse. I'm looking for a more level playing field. It's as I said before, if the Defender is going to pay the price of having lower defense and lower offense, he has to get some benefit in return. The benfit of making someone else's game more fun is hardly adequate, at least to me.
My build is hardly optimized, but even the BEST I could get at L22 would be only 10-12% Defense and 15% resistance (which is what I have). That's the MOST defense I can get at that level. I suppose I could have worked Weave in there by then too, but that would sacrifice Fitness. Those defenses are made even less meaningful by the fact that I have less than HALF the health of the Scrapper. Now, I'm not saying it should be EQUAL, but I should be somewhere closer than that.
Catwhoorg
So, it's ok for other players to have those buffs, but not the Defender?
Umbral
Again, I'm not saying Defenders should be able to solo as well as Scrappers. My Scrapper walks through those missions with ease. My Blaster (lower level) walks through with ease, not as easy as the Scrapper, but he can handle it. My Tanker walks through it with ease. He takes longer, but he gets there reliably. My Controller has NO trouble at all until he hits the bosses, and then he dies because he can't control them. The Defender is constantly on the run unless he's eating handfuls of inspirations. He's the only one that has so much trouble. That's why I have to wonder about the balance of the AT; because this character seems not to be able to do the same thing all the others can do.
I expect him to be able to solo capably. Not as well as the Scrapper, not as fast as the Blaster, and perhaps not as safely as the Tanker. As it is, he doesn't even come close. I'm just looking for it to be a bit more even.
SStingray
A good post, well thought out. Thanks.
As I say, if the debuffing sets and damage boosting sets are working well, then it's the defense sets that need looking at. As I said before, perhaps the solution is to allow self-buffing? Certainly, it might require some rebalancing, but it would help solo Defenders.
(this also applies to Panzerwaffen's post)
Making the class weak solo because he can help other people more smacks of bad design to me. As I said before, why would I want to play if my only purpose is to make someone else's game more fun? I want to have fun too. Every other AT brings something to teams, and none of them suffer solo as a result of that.
[ QUOTE ]
Catwhoorg
So, it's ok for other players to have those buffs, but not the Defender?
[/ QUOTE ]
Abolsutely.
The Devs have few issues with TEAMS being 'overpowered'. Witness Castles various comments about groups like the Repeat Offenders.
When one character can survive everything thrown at it, and do large amounts of damage, thats a tank mage, and that is bad for a MMO.
[ QUOTE ]
Making the class weak solo because he can help other people more smacks of bad design to me. As I said before, why would I want to play if my only purpose is to make someone else's game more fun? I want to have fun too. Every other AT brings something to teams, and none of them suffer solo as a result of that
[/ QUOTE ]
You are not the sole arbiter of fun. Some people enjoy playing buff-focused characters. Why deprive them of the oppurtunity to have their brand of fun ?
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
I'm told the Devs have described the Defender as the best balanced AT. I'm forced to wonder at this. Consider the following.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just love when people bring up a dev quote from *years* ago and think it's still applicable. MMOs change a lot from inception and holding to something a dev (who hasn't been here for years) said as this untouchable pillar of game design is not fair to the current dev team nor the dev who originally said it.
By the way, I think the OP's straw man of using probably weakest self buffing defender against a scapper is dubious at best.
since you seemed to ignore my post, I'll re-state what I said earlier.
your assumption that all powerset combinations and all builds should function equally in all situations is horribly flawed at best.
Buffers will always function better in certain content than Debuffers (AV encounters, certain enemies with various resistances, etc) because buffs can not be resisted. However, Debuffers will always be better at smaller content than buffers because their powers essentially affect themselves as well as the team.
I'm not going to type out everything else I wrote last night, go look at that post.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am likely in full agreement with you that defenders should be able to self-target with buffs, I never understood that design decision - but the defender AT doesn't suffer much for it outside of solo, and bring incredible value to a team.
[/ QUOTE ]
30% def all (perma) hits the Soft cap with PowerbuildUp
900% regen (perma with hasten) Plus anoth 900% almost perma
1000% recovery boost
13 Mag mez resist (perma)
Plus a damage boost that brings damage scale up to 1.
Thats a self-targeting empath right there, which explains why you can't self target those buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
you forgot to add in Recovery Aura into that, also the 50% heal that's up every 2 seconds
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Making the class weak solo because he can help other people more smacks of bad design to me. As I said before, why would I want to play if my only purpose is to make someone else's game more fun? I want to have fun too. Every other AT brings something to teams, and none of them suffer solo as a result of that
[/ QUOTE ]
You are not the sole arbiter of fun. Some people enjoy playing buff-focused characters. Why deprive them of the oppurtunity to have their brand of fun ?
[/ QUOTE ]
This. NOW expecting for a buff-heavy class with no debuffs to solo like a champ, that's just delusional. There are a lot of combos you can pick to solo well, some with buffs and debuffs. My Rad/Psy solos like a champ.
[ QUOTE ]
Twilightphoenix:
An interesting build. Nifty demo. I'll point out, however, that the character has only 10-12% Defense, no resistance and half the damage output of the Scrapper without Criticals.
As I say, mine is something of a concept build, being an Iron Man homage, so the need for some significant melee ability had to be considered. It may not be optimal, but I consider it a flaw in the class if you have to build one specific way to be viable.
[/ QUOTE ]
This just isn't a fair comment. Taking a buff/debuff / ranged AT and selecting only 1 primary power, and a 1 or 2 secondary powers and then filling that with melee pool powers and attempt to make them a def/melee/ranged build just won't work the way it does in your head. You want a "tank-mage" i.e. ironman and are mad the game won't let you.
Use forcebolt and det field as damage mitigation powers, use your 3 ranged attacks to keep them in perma knockdown. You may have less "defense" than a scrapper but with the amount of damage mitigation in your primary and 2ndary, you should be fine.
If you don't like that answer, then I suggest car racing with flat tires, or target practice with a blindfold, cause that's pretty much what you're trying to do with all those pool powers.
[ QUOTE ]
First, let me say a couple of things. This thread is not about me personally, and insults and denigration will not be tolerated. I have already notified the moderators, accusing someone of trolling is against the forum rules.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd argue that this thread is more about your inexperience and idealism than it is about defender issues. You have a vision for what your FF/En MAN build should do in comparison to a scrapper in solo play - that's lovely, but you'd be much better off just jumping on a team and actually utilizing your strengths instead of weaknesses, or rolling a more solo friendly (dark, rad, storm) defender to solo with. I am trying to give advice, but I have limited patience for the idea that your defender needs to be buffed to compete with your scrapper when your scrapper has (and will continue to have!) no chance of competing on a larger team with the defender's contribution where you have no other defense buffs. They're different AT's, they play differently, they contribute differently - and the defender AT is more powerful, by far, in my opinion. (I have numerous IO'd out scrappers, fwiw). Not my ideal game design, but it is entertaining.
[ QUOTE ]
Twilightphoenix:
An interesting build. Nifty demo. I'll point out, however, that the character has only 10-12% Defense, no resistance and half the damage output of the Scrapper without Criticals.
As I say, mine is something of a concept build, being an Iron Man homage, so the need for some significant melee ability had to be considered. It may not be optimal, but I consider it a flaw in the class if you have to build one specific way to be viable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Therein lies the problem, you have a fixed concept set in your mind and are disappointed that it does not perform the way YOUR vision expects it to perform. That hardly justifies a need to rebalance the entirety of the class, especially when the class as a whole does so well in EVERY FACET OF THE GAME.
[ QUOTE ]
The Defender is expected to overcome the same challenges as the Scrapper, yet he is significantly hindered by his lesser abilities.
[/ QUOTE ]
This part seems the weakest part of your argument. The Defender is expected to overcome challenges related to threats incoming to teammates and allies, (and to a lesser degree himself). The Scrapper is expected to overcome challenges more related to single enemies having higher than normal indefeatability. This interpretation isn't sophistry.
A Scrapper can certainly try to overcome incoming threat mitigation challenges, but his skills aren't a great fit for that, usually coming down to attempts to eliminate threatening enemies quickly or at least stealing some aggro. Also, a Defender can certainly try to take on overcoming strong enemy challenges but will obviously struggle in doing so.
At the same time, the game is set up to expect that players have to pursue enemy defeats in order to achieve rewards and progression. In this sense players that are Scrappers are much more likely to obtain core game rewards than Defenders.
I imagine this latter point is what you really want the discussion topic to be.
I've gone through a similar discussion before, regarding being a Force Field defender trying to find a way to obtain the 1 billion heal credit badge. It boiled down to the same thing, the devs designed a reward implemented to be a universally-accessible reward but at the same time forces a large subset of the audience into 'bad' gameplay to pursue it.
To correct the force field vs. healer problem, a similar reward should be designed that tracks damage mitigation efforts other than pure healing.
To correct the Scrapper vs. Defender problem, again, rewards similar to enemy defeat xp should be designed that rewards other styles of incoming threat mitigation. If my FF def bubbles a teammate, and because of that my teammate manages to avoid a big attack from a boss or something, my FF def should get every bit of an xp drop that a Scrapper should get for overcoming a boss' (artificial) advantage of higher than normal health.
At least from a theoretical perspective.
[ QUOTE ]
Now THATS more like a soloing defender build. I note the use of both primary and secondary to boost survivability (detention field is a great tool solo).
Personally I'd have left sniper blast to later, but thats about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I may have taken it later, considering it's only 3-slotted. I didn't remember the order I grabbed everything, I was just looking at my enhancement screen when I did it and told myself "Ok, this power needs to be put into the planner early enough to have this many slots with these enhancements..."
[ QUOTE ]
Twilightphoenix:
An interesting build. Nifty demo. I'll point out, however, that the character has only 10-12% Defense, no resistance and half the damage output of the Scrapper without Criticals.
As I say, mine is something of a concept build, being an Iron Man homage, so the need for some significant melee ability had to be considered. It may not be optimal, but I consider it a flaw in the class if you have to build one specific way to be viable.
As I say, though, and interesting demonstration.
[/ QUOTE ]
15ish% defense, according to my Combat Attributes. As shown in the demo, I rely a lot on range, knockdown/back, and detention to make up for the lack of defense and resistance.
However, as a concept build, depending on what it is, you have to make sacrifices for performance for concept, or vice versa or find another way to hand wave them. For example, that toon in the demo is also a concept build. I got around her being able to Fly, which is outside her concept, by giving her rocket boots. I got around her lack of gun by giving her Energy Blast and mentioning in her bio that her gun was censored. Her lack of the ally-only shields on her solo build (she has a team build too) is a bit outside of her concept, but I wasn't dedicated to it enough to take two powers I wouldn't be able to use solo.
However, if you're looking for equal ranged/melee effectiveness (give or take) for you concept, may I recommend an Energy/Energy or AR/Energy Blaster? Those two would probably fit your homage better, would do superior damage, have superior melee capabilities, and be a faster soloist. You would, however, loose your team buffing capabilities and self mez-protection, but I don't recall Iron Man dropping force fields on anyone or flying around in a big bubble (granted, I only saw the recent movie).
op, if you happen to have a 35+ scrapper on freedom I invite you to one of my buffer overrun itfs and we will how strong you think your scrapper is after that. Send me a pm to @enots
Active 50's
Darklocked (dm/sd Brute)
Wardman (Fire/sd Scrapper)
Congealer (ice/cold Corruptor)
Peroxisome (mind/psi Dominator)
Evil Thing (Fire/Kin Corruptor)
Proud Member of Repeat-Offenders
[ QUOTE ]
I am very concerned about balance. I can't tell you why, but finding an imbalance in a system, whether it be a game, a law an insurance company or whatever, just grates on me. In this case, it's simply like this: Both characters have to be able to accomplish the same things in the game, but one is largely unable to to it - there's a disparity between the ATs (at least, that I'm seeing). I just want to see a more level playing field.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that you fequently engage in Quixotic stuggles made so by your own inexperience or lack of awareness in the matters you are tackling. You have this rather bizarre build, your experience with which is part of the foundation of your argument. I can't say precisely here, but I know that in past threads your playstyle has also been relatively unorthodox.
If you are essentially playing against the grain by playing either builds others wouldn't play or by playing in a way that others do not frequently do, it's very hard to conclude that you have identified meaningful imbalances. If you could show that a significant number of players were joining you on this path, that might be a problem where the game was misleading people. I haven't seen consistent evidence of that though.
I play debuffing Defenders/Corruptors a lot, and I think I understand their solo abilities rather well. I also play with a lot of buffing Defenders/Corruptors, and though experiencing their benefits, I think I also understand their benefits very well. These ATs are some of the most important things to seek on a team if you desire high levels of performance, usually measured in terms of speed of completing content.
The decision that such characters should be weaker on their own in exchange for how much stronger they make a team is explicit. A concept of imbalance or unfairness or unfairness rooted exclusively in solo ability, is, in my opinion overly narrow.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
op, if you happen to have a 35+ scrapper on freedom I invite you to one of my buffer overrun itfs and we will how strong you think your scrapper is after that. Send me a pm to @enots
[/ QUOTE ]
Better yet, I invite you to join in one of Smurphy's Fallout-friendly ITFs, the best part about that is that we're available on Freedom, Virtue, or Justice
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
[/ QUOTE ]Better yet, I invite you to join in one of Smurphy's Fallout-friendly ITFs, the best part about that is that we're available on Freedom, Virtue, or Justice
[/ QUOTE ]
Do we really want to scare him that much? 
Active 50's
Darklocked (dm/sd Brute)
Wardman (Fire/sd Scrapper)
Congealer (ice/cold Corruptor)
Peroxisome (mind/psi Dominator)
Evil Thing (Fire/Kin Corruptor)
Proud Member of Repeat-Offenders
The problem starts with ...
The limited narrow set of criteria you are using to judge by. There is more to the game than ONLY this narrow viewpoint. Stubborn adherence to "If it doesn't peform like a scrapper soloing this one mission, then it's unbalanced". When someone shows they can do what you can't, you then dismiss that as "oh, I didn't mean THAT defender". Then when they use the same primary and secondary as you, you further dismiss that as "oh, I didn't mean that build, I only meant my own pet concept build". I grant you, given your concept build, it is likely no-one will ever disprove view point, but only because you refuse to allow that it may be the fault of the player and the build, and not the fault of the AT itself.
IF you want solo performance then the problem is ...
The Primary and Secondary YOU picked.
The Powers YOU picked from your primary and secondary.
The concept build YOU picked.
The playstyle YOU have employed.
An apparent, if not factual, lack of understanding of the game in general and lack of understanding of your primary and secondary in specific.
And all this sums up to the problem is YOU, not the AT.
Defenders are very likely the most diverse and adaptable AT in the game, that doesn't mean any ONE specific build will be the end-all be-all of the game, nor does it many ANY defender build will be the end-all be-all. Instead it means, there very likely exists a defender build to fill almost any role in a team almost as well as the AT and build that would fill the role most optimally. Defenders (and corruptors) can do almost anything, they may or may not be the best at anything, but they can accomplish more things in more diverse ways than any other AT in the game. This is their strength.
[ QUOTE ]
Better yet, I invite you to join in one of Smurphy's Fallout-friendly ITFs, the best part about that is that we're available on Freedom, Virtue, or Justice
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like that all defender/corruptor/controller/dominator invincible run with enemies buffed and players debuffed where we killed everything in each mission and still finished in just over an hour ? We really probably shouldn't shock him that badly.
Granted, that's not an everyday occurance, our teams vary significantly. But I'm sure we could setup another all def/con/cor run.
So to sum things up,
You took one of the least offensive defender builds and grabbed up melee pool powers for "concept" and now you are complaining that it doesn't solo as well as a scrapper....
lolwut
[ QUOTE ]
SStingray
A good post, well thought out. Thanks.
As I say, if the debuffing sets and damage boosting sets are working well, then it's the defense sets that need looking at. As I said before, perhaps the solution is to allow self-buffing? Certainly, it might require some rebalancing, but it would help solo Defenders.
(this also applies to Panzerwaffen's post)
Making the class weak solo because he can help other people more smacks of bad design to me. As I said before, why would I want to play if my only purpose is to make someone else's game more fun? I want to have fun too. Every other AT brings something to teams, and none of them suffer solo as a result of that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why someone would be willing to play an AT that stands in the back and simply helps others earn all the glory is not an easy question to answer. But "greed" is a good starting point.
A minion killed by an 8 man team is worth twice the XP of a minion killed solo because of team bonuses. That XP does get divided up among the team so it seems like less, but at the same time, the number of mobs spawned by an instance is adjusted up. On that same note, a lieutenant is worth about 3 times the experience as a minion, and a boss is worth easily 10 minions in experience. But neither has 3 or 10 times the HP as a minion. So if your team is large enough for the instance to be spawning lots of lieutenants and a couple bosses in random groups, that is a huge boost of experience and influence compared to the soloist's usual 3 minions at a time. Frankly, it can be a lot of work to set up a large team. But these team support specialists make hunting safe and easy, and the whole team get paid very well for the work.
So why are you soloing all the time when you can be earning five times the sweet, sweet XP and Inf in a big team? (Before you answer that let me admit that I do a lot solo, too. So I don't really need an answer.)
Before you go much farther with your Forcefield/Energy "soloist," you might want to ask yourself what you really want to do for fun. I think if you really want to be able to wade into a group solo and come out unscathed, you may find it much more fun to play a stone or shield Tanker. If direct massive damage to enemies is your thing, you want to be a Scrapper or even Blaster.
While Defenders may not be your cup of tea, the fact remains that they are rather popular, even in spite the nerfs and difficulties. Class balance is, oddly, defined by popularity and not real power. So it is unlikely Defenders are going to be getting any boosts until people stop playing them.
Slappers just don't understand the power of the buffs.
8 Regen Slappers stand next to each other and they each have 1 Instant Healing that they can use sometimes.
8 Empathy Defenders stand next to each other and they each have 2 or 3 Instant Healing on all the time.
8 Super Reflex Slappers stand next to each other and they each have the softcap.
8 Empathy Defenders stand next to each other and each has double the softcap... and 2 or 3 Instant Healings... and double the recharge of Speed Boost... and...
Got the idea?
And we haven't even gotten into any of the other Defender powersets yet.
Tar Patch slows the enemy and adds 30% more damage to the whole team. Tar Patch is not a 30% Damage boost, but 30% more damage. The buffs get multiplied by 1.3. Fulcrum Shift gets multiplied by 1.3. Hooray 
Freezing Rain does that and knocks guys down.
Oil Slick Arrow does it while lighting them on fire.
I like thinking about Defenders and the buffs and debuffs
[ QUOTE ]
Slappers just don't understand the power of the buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
We do. We just prefer to do without them because we want to see what we can do without them.
Plus, while 8 defenders working together is quite amazing, you'd be even more amazed what 7 defenders and a single Scrapper can manage.
[ QUOTE ]
PC_Guy
Storm and Sonic, both of which debuff, and fighting at high level. I've already said that debuff sets seem to do fairly well, and that the problem exists more significantly at lower level.
[/ QUOTE ]
Orly? for the most part i would consider the lower levels to be much easier to solo since for the most part all the baddies are pretty strait forward i.e. skulls, hellions, trolls. Also im pretty sure psyonico has a video of his emp/nrg(?) soloing a few EBs and missions if you would like for me to find and post that as well.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
[ QUOTE ]
Plus, while 8 defenders working together is quite amazing, you'd be even more amazed what 7 defenders and a single Blaster can manage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed.
Force Field is defintiely lame.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm told the Devs have described the Defender as the best balanced AT. I'm forced to wonder at this. Consider the following.
I took my Defender and my Scrapper through the SAME mission, my AE World War Two arc. Both characters are L22 and fully slotted with SOs. Their attacks are all similarly slotted (1 acc, 1 end, 3 damage). The main foes are German Soldiers with 200.0 health.
The Scrapper (MA/Shield) walks easily through the missions. The Defender (FF/EB) is constantly in desperate condition. Why?
(... snip ...)
It seems pretty plain that the Scrapper has VASTLY more health, more defense and more offense than the Defender. The Defender is expected to overcome the same challenges as the Scrapper, yet he is significantly hindered by his lesser abilities.
This puzzles me, because the usual pattern is to compensate for lack of offense with increased defense, or vice versa. The Defender has lesser defense AND lesser offense, with no benefit to himself.
Now, the obvious argument will be that the Defender is "intended" for team play, but that is sophistry at best. ALL characters are intended for team play, yet only the Defender suffers for this.
I've said it before, and I say it again. Defenders need a boost in damage output or defense. It has to be one or the other. They can't continue to be the second class heroes they are at present.
[/ QUOTE ]
This whole thread is hard to read, so I might end up repeating something that someone else has said. But I think it's important to say it anyway.
Coming out of Beta and into I1, Defenders used to do similar damage to Tankers. But as the first live players were getting to the level cap, an unfortunate pattern emerged. Kinetic and Radiation defenders were able to self-buff their damage output to be on par, or even superior to Blaster damage, so Blasters were quitting in their 20s and 30s to re-roll as Defenders to take advantage of the Defender sets. This led to the majority of level capped players being Defenders and level 40 Blasters were practically unheard of.
At the time, the developers weighed a number of possible solutions, but what they decided to do to correct the imbalance between classes was extreme. The base Defender's "blast" attribute got at 25% nerf, and the Blasters started picking up damage boosts. I remember that time clearly as it was when I retired my very first character, a radiation/energy defender, in her 20s in complete disgust. It's ironic that I've come back to playing a radiation/electric defender and loving it.
Although it was a painful time for me, I can't help to admit that what they did actually worked well. Trying out the other ATs was a good experience for me, even though I never could get in to any of them, except the Mastermind. (But that's a different story.)
I believe one of the other posters at least started to mention this. But by design, buffs and debuff from different characters stack fully. I'll give you a couple examples. Deflection shield gives a base 15% defense to smashing, lethal, and melee for two minutes. With proper slotting, this can be brought up to 23.4% defense. If you cast this on a teammate twice, they won't stack and the teammate would still have 23.4% defense. However if another forcefielder came along and cast this on your teammate after you did, they will stack, and the teammate now has 46.8% defense, which is beyond the soft cap. Same thing applies to Dispersion Bubble. Slotted properly, Dispersion bubble provides 15.6% defense to the entire team. So two Dispersion bubbles from two different forcefield defenders can double up to 31.2% defense, and three would give everyone 46.8% defense, which is beyond the soft cap.
Because the soft-cap is so low, forcefielders tend not to get along well with each other. But it is not the case for other defenders. Sonic Siphon from the Sonic Resonance set will directly debuff an enemy's resistance by 30%. Meaning that attacks against the affected target do 30% more damage. Solo, that is still about 25% less damage than a blaster can do without help. But teamed with one other sonic defender, and things get interesting. Both sonic defenders can bounce a disruption field off each other to debuff the enemy another 30%. With each defender now debuffing the enemy 60% and with two defenders, the enemy is now down 120% resistance. The two defenders working together has a damage output close to 2.5 blasters. Add a third sonic defender, and the enemy gets 180% debuffed, and makes the 3 defenders worth about 4.8 blasters in damage output.
Even self-buffs for damage and resistance work similarly. Siphon Power from one Kinetics defender will boost everyone's damage 25%. That means two Kinetics defenders can boost everyone's damage 50%, and 3 Kinetics defenders can boost everyone's damage 75%. Fulcrum Shift also carries a 50% damage booster, so that one Kineticist can sometimes boost everyone by 75%, two by 150%, three by 225% and so on.
So here is the real deal. Cryptic (well before they sold the whole mess to NC Soft) has had little choice but to make Defenders weak solo to balance the fact that their buffing and debuffing abilities make them much more powerful in teams than simple blasters, scrappers, or tankers. Comparing a Martial Arts/Shield Scrapper with a Forcefied/Energy defender in a solo mission is no contest. If nothing else, the Force Field powerset is a bit of a lemon. If you don't learn to use knockbacks properly, you'll be having a really hard time of it solo. On the flipside, the Forcefield Defender is the only one able to soft-cap the defense of an entire team by himself, properly slotted. If you can use your alternate build for a team setup and run the mission again with a pickup group 6 or 8 members strong, you should see some dramatically different results.
Some of us old experts take delight in finding uses for power-combinations that close the gap between us and other archetypes when soloing. But even in the best case, we are never more than second best until we start finding teammates to help. If you really can't live with that, you may just want to abandon your defender and concentrate on your scrapper.