I'm amazed by the rank closing and hostility to Ultimo. I'm amazed at the support for Luminara, too, who is simply being rude and unhelpfully argumentative.
It really is common knowledge that Defenders do not solo as well as many other ATs. People, myself included, have observed how much easier solo play is with e.g. a Scrapper. It's just true; no matter what else is debatable, you cannot argue that an individual's personal experience simply did not happen.
You may think that nonetheless Defenders are fine or balanced, or that the fact that some powerset combinations allow a Defender to solo adequately is sufficient. That doesn't excuse the abject dismissive and rude responses.
So please, a little less hate.
Oh, and to Luminara, if they are bothering to read this: don't take my lack of response to your posts as conceding a point or agreeing with your argument; rather, I simply can't be bothered debating with someone who is as rude and as juvenile in tone as yourself.
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Actually I've found Luminara to be far more polite than Ultimo. If you want someone who is actually being rude, I'd point to Talen (but at least he's funny. That doesn't excuse it, but I can't be mad if I'm laughing). Ultimo, however, has been wrong about the use of powers at several points in this thread. He's been wrong about Accelerate Metabolism, he's been wrong about how much defense/mitigation defenders have, since debuffing/holding/KD/KB/Caging are valid forms of defense. He's put his FF defender without one of hte most powerful blasts that has trouble soloing as an example of why defenders are weak solo, instead of thinking that he messed up his build. There's nothing wrong with screwing up a build. You should have seen my first few characters - hell, it took me seven respecs to get my stone tank the way I want it. He's been wrong about a lot of things. And he's been pretty good about responding to people saying he's wrong about specific powers.|
Originally Posted by halfflat
I'm amazed by the rank closing and hostility to Ultimo. I'm amazed at the support for Luminara, too, who is simply being rude and unhelpfully argumentative.
It really is common knowledge that Defenders do not solo as well as many other ATs. People, myself included, have observed how much easier solo play is with e.g. a Scrapper. It's just true; no matter what else is debatable, you cannot argue that an individual's personal experience simply did not happen. You may think that nonetheless Defenders are fine or balanced, or that the fact that some powerset combinations allow a Defender to solo adequately is sufficient. That doesn't excuse the abject dismissive and rude responses. So please, a little less hate. Oh, and to Luminara, if they are bothering to read this: don't take my lack of response to your posts as conceding a point or agreeing with your argument; rather, I simply can't be bothered debating with someone who is as rude and as juvenile in tone as yourself. |
What Luminara is taking offense at is that he's continued to talk about these powers as if he's an expert on them, yet he really really isn't, and that's been proven time and time again by his own words. He continues to talk about storm despite not having played the set in a year. Despite being told by several people that the powers don't have the effect that he thinks it does. I can attest by my own experience that if you are scattering all foes with a stormer, then you're not doing it right and need to change your tactics. His extreme lack of knowledge about kin/ is annoying, yet he continues to talk about it. He calls radiation emission a weak soloer, yet I can attest that it, indeed, isn't.
All of this, and more, would be extremely frustrating to people who actually do know a lot of numbers and have a lot of play experience. And when all is said and done, if defenders become better soloers as an AT as a whole, then something sure as hell better be done about scrappers and tankers, and God knows I don't think either of them should be buffed.
Put it this way. All defenders can solo on heroic. How much faster do you want to be able to do it?
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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Unyielding on most, within 4 minutes of my time on my scrapper. Pre-20, Rugged or Tenacious (although with the Issue 16 difficulty sliders, if I can do Heroic without nerfing bosses into Lts., I'll be all over that).
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
Put it this way. All defenders can solo on heroic. How much faster do you want to be able to do it?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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No, you can't argue that their personal experience didn't happen, but (as this thread shows) you can argue that they drew the wrong conclusion from it.
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Originally Posted by halfflat
It really is common knowledge that Defenders do not solo as well as many other ATs. People, myself included, have observed how much easier solo play is with e.g. a Scrapper. It's just true; no matter what else is debatable, you cannot argue that an individual's personal experience simply did not happen.
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The problem with Ultimo's posts, although they aren't specifically rude, is that he is repeatedly posting with clear and obvious errors. Which he shouldn't be making, if he's going to argue on the topic. He shouldn't be saying "Defenders don't do enough damage when soloing", and use as an example a character who didn't take an available hard-hitting single-target blast.|
Originally Posted by halfflat
I'm amazed by the rank closing and hostility to Ultimo. I'm amazed at the support for Luminara, too, who is simply being rude and unhelpfully argumentative.
It really is common knowledge that Defenders do not solo as well as many other ATs. People, myself included, have observed how much easier solo play is with e.g. a Scrapper. It's just true; no matter what else is debatable, you cannot argue that an individual's personal experience simply did not happen. You may think that nonetheless Defenders are fine or balanced, or that the fact that some powerset combinations allow a Defender to solo adequately is sufficient. That doesn't excuse the abject dismissive and rude responses. So please, a little less hate. |
He's not rude to people specifically, but he is rude to all of us by coming in here and telling us "There is a problem here, and these are the reasons why", and not checking that most of his reasons are clearly wrong. Wrong numbers, wrong character builds, wrong premises. I am offended that someone is spending so much effort on arguing, and so little effort on ensuring that his arguments are correct. Less time posting, and more time checking hist facts, in other words, is what we all want to see. And we're not getting it, and thus the hostility to him.
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Or really good. I mean, who else can manage to leave the topic twice... wonder if he'll pull off a third time?|
Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
It's less 'those don't count,' and more 'You're wrong.'
Bonus, you left. Twice. You're really bad at that. |
Almost like he has Thread Teleportation, where he exits the thread through the door, then turns invisible and teleports back into the middle of it so that he can again exit for dramatic effect.
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It doesn't matter who referred to it first (though you may notice it was a thread I posted in), it was still on topic. That's what you aked for. You didn't ask for threads that were on topic AND brilliantly executed.|
Originally Posted by Luminara
I referred to it before you did, I included it in the total of three out of the supposedly "endless threads" which you insisted are on the forums but which do not exist, and the player's complaint was found to be exaggeration, not an actual problem.
"It doesn't FEEL like it's a lot" is not a valid complaint, argument, point or piece of evidence because it is 100% subjective and can be applied to every power in the game. Therefore, the thread in question was not being dismissed, it had already been accounted for and proven to be unacceptable. |
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| The usefulness and usability of the inherent is debatable in every situation, teamed or solo, and therefore is not a complaint about the difficulty of soloing defenders but a complaint about the inherent itself. |
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It was because his defender wasn't soloing well, and he also listened to the suggestions and advice and resolved his issues instead of starting another thread with falsified data, wildly exaggerated claims of difficulty and demands for entire powersets or the AT itself to be buffed to tankmage status. And the thread ended relatively quickly, without the multitude of struggling solo defenders that you claim to exist having shown up. I will remind you that one person experiencing problems does not equate to the entire player base experiencing problems, or the AT being flawed, or the powersets being poorly designed, and I will also say that this post belies your statements because it proves that the players who are having trouble are asking for, receiving and following advice which alleviates their woes. All of the things you don't do, in other words. |
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Not even remotely. That thread was intended to find a way to make defender FF different in some way from controller FF so there would be less "sameness" between the two. That's what the word "differentiate" means. To make different from something similar. You aren't trying to differentiate defenders from any other AT, you're trying to get defenders buffed so you can play tankmages. Not the same topic, not the same approach, not the same suggestions, not even the same goals. |
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Five threads, only two related to your assertion that there are "endless threads" from players complaining about defenders struggling while playing solo, one of those two debunked before ten posts and the other was a single player asking for and receiving advice, not pitching a hissy and demanding buffs and insisting that defenders are broken in solo play. Five threads, five strikes, and I still have yet to see your "endless threads". |
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Third time you've said you don't have time for this, third time you've come back and done it anyway. Guess you're not that busy after all... ...In other words, you're taking your ball and going home again, and you really mean it this time, for at least five minutes |
And thanks to halfflat. He/she has shown me the way, so allow me to quote him in closing:
"don't take my lack of response to your posts as conceding a point or agreeing with your argument; rather, I simply can't be bothered debating with someone who is as rude and as juvenile in tone as yourself."
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Even if accepted as true, that "Defenders do not solo as well", it is completely and utterly irrelevant. Defenders can solo. Nothing anywhere says that every AT should have an equally easy experience while solo. And to use Scrappers, the epitome of a solo AT, as a comparison to say that Defenders don't solo well, is exactly the same silly logic that started off this whole thread in the first place. |
Originally Posted by halfflat
It really is common knowledge that Defenders do not solo as well as many other ATs. People, myself included, have observed how much easier solo play is with e.g. a Scrapper. It's just true; no matter what else is debatable, you cannot argue that an individual's personal experience simply did not happen.
You may think that nonetheless Defenders are fine or balanced, or that the fact that some powerset combinations allow a Defender to solo adequately is sufficient. |
It can also be said that Blasters & Tankers don't solo as well as a Scrapper. Are you going to suggest now that those AT's get buffed as well? Personally, I find that trying to solo a Tank pre-stamina and pre-SO's is about the single most frustrating experience in the game. Far more so than a Defender.
Why is it so hard for some people to grasp the concept that Defenders are a team support AT?
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You've pulled that off quite well all by yourself...
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
It's merely an attempt to make me look somehow foolish
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This thread is just absolutely awful and not even entertaining.
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Should have been locked a long time ago..
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
This thread is just absolutely awful and not even entertaining.
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Finally, something we all agree on.
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No way!|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Should have been locked a long time ago..
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Tags have only just started showing up for this one
New tags alone will keep this one going.
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lulz, needs more whine with the cheese
| Accusing someone of trolling a trolling, and not allowed. Reported. |
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And yet here you still are, after repeatedly washing your hands of this thread.|
Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Finally, something we all agree on.
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Hypocrite much?
We're getting farther and farther away from productive in this thread so I'll lock it down.
-Mod8-
If you are using Latin in your post you are probably trolling
Have a question? Try the PlayNC Knowledge Base
But I think Ultimo_, consciously or not, is trying to carve out a geek-niche as The Guy Who Got Defenders Buffed.
One of the reasons people flock to online message boards is to become praise-worthy experts in small, arcane fields. It strokes some part of our need for social contact and gratification without actually having to go through the messy bits of meeting people in RL.
So, yeah.
Ultimo_ just happened to pick a relatively crowded area in which to get his geek on ... but didn't have that pesky expert part nailed down.