Defenders balance

Just keep telling yourself that TALEN_LEE

When you make blatantly wrong statements like...
You lose a lot of creditability right off the bat.

A question was asked (admittedly probably rhetorical) and an answer was given. There was little subjective content in that response, except possibly for the assertion about how much this game is soloable. I'd be interested in seeing that factually refuted.

So what is it, then, that he's "telling himself"?

Talen_Lee and I have responded to each other earlier in the thread.
I apologize if you thought my comment was directed at anyone else besides Talen_Lee.

Snark-i-ness aside. My opinion WAS, and still IS, that there is nothing wrong with helping a few powersets out for purposes of solo play. Many Veterans here have admited that there are powersets that do not solo well and could stand some help. What people like ULTIMO and I are advocating is that these powersets are not even in the SAME REALM of solo capability as other defender powersets. I am not a person that compares or expects to have my defender solo like a scrapper. I also dont expect my EMPATHY defender to solo as well as a RAD defender. But they are not even in the same realm of solo-ability (Unless and Until you spend serious effort doing so). Also, in an effort to make a solo-worthy Empath (as an example) you could potentially harm your group worthi-ness.

people like Talen_Lee say thats working as intended, your a newb, GTFO.
I respectfuly, disagree with this view.

I will admit, that as a result of these powersets being what they are.
My only Empaths are Controllers, and thats not likely to change, as much as I wish it would.

Out of curiosity and in an attempt to steer the conversation in a more enlightened direction, what's your reasoning for this? Don't both powers have the same ratio of up time to down time?

So you can't produce a list of those "endless" threads by defenders claiming that they're having horrible experiences with soloing?

I'll remind you once again that I am a frequent poster in this forum, I do read the vast majority of threads in this forum and I do know what the general sentiment is in this forum, and if you can't provide proof that I've sorely mistaken what I've read or missed every one of those "endless" threads, I will continue to call your claims into question.

No, I'm telling you that you're making things up, that you have no idea what you're talking about and that when you do try to back up your statements, you typically do so with deliberately skewed or simply wrong data.

I don't have to attack you and I'm not the one in the weak position here. I don't invent problems and demand solutions, I don't make up numbers to bolster erroneous idealistic beliefs about how I want the game to work and I don't tell other players to go find the proof for themselves when I insist that something's wrong.

Either put up or shut up, it's that simple. Let's see that list of "endless" threads of players saying that defenders complaining about the solo experience.

And they compensate for that lower damage output with higher damage mitigation. That's balance. Safer = lower damage output. Less safe = higher damage output.

Yes, I know, scrappers and brutes don't follow that rule exactly. But take another look, and you'll see that in a way, they do. Ranged sets typically have more and better AoE/cone options than melee sets. So while the scrapper or brute is safer than the blaster, and may be safer than some defenders, they're also more limited in how many foes they can affect at once and they're forced to function in melee range, where they take correspondingly more damage on each successful hit than someone fighting outside of melee range typically has to endure. The ranged ATs deal damage to more foes at a time and they take less damage due to the lower damage output of critter ranged attacks, and they pay for that overall increase in damage output with a small sacrifice in personal safety.

Balance.

Kins can cap their damage.

Kins can cap their damage solo.

Rad has a very powerful Resistance debuff.

TA debuffs Resistance by 40%, and can debuff resistance by 60% if Disruption is double-stacked or 80% if the Achilles' Heel proc is used.

You also missed Dark Miasma's Tar Patch (30% -Res), Cold Domination's Sleet and Heat Loss (30% -Res apiece), Sonic's Sonic Siphon (30% -Res), Storm's Freezing Rain (35% -Res)... and that's not addressing -Def, which is also available in many primaries.

In fact, almost every primary has one or more powers which improve damage output.

Please name which defender primary or primaries cannot use any damage mitigation powers solo. You said "SOME", so you must have a specific powerset or powersets in mind.

Cold Domination has Sleet, which offers the same Knockdown chance that Ice Slick, Oil Slick and similar powers provide, 5% chance every 0.2s. Powers which are proven to be highly effective damage mitigation tools. Sleet is on a 60s recharge with a 30s duration, so it can be used in every fight by a solo Cold/*.

Oh, look more Ultimo numbers.

Tough is 15% Resistance to Smashing and Lethal.

And why are you using some enhanced values and some values without enhancements? Your numbers in your little rantparison are all over the place. Gosh, if I didn't know better, I'd believe you might be deliberately trying to downplay various defender abilities in an attempt to shore up an argument that you lost before you made the original post.

It has a Fear and a Hold. It doesn't have "a couple of Fear-type holds", there's no such thing as "Fear-type" Holds. A Hold is a Hold, a Fear is a Fear, they're different types of control.

The math for hit rolls doesn't work like you seem to think it does. That 7% +Def is added to all of the -ToHit, it's not calculated separately. It's 7% base ON TOP OF the cumulative -ToHit that the Dark/* applies with the other powers in Dark Miasma.

Yes, Ultimo, a Dark/* can cap his/her own defense using only Shadow Fall. Against everything below +3s or AVs.

And that 31% Resistance is applied after the -Damage is calculated, too. So that Dark/* has, solo, the equivalent of 50% resistance to Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Toxic, Special and Unique, and 81% Res to Energy, Negative and Psi.

I don't think any Darks are going to be crying into their drinks over taking a hit or two.

Uh... Twilight Grasp not only heals, it also reduces damage by 12.5%. Doing nothing but keeping Darkest Night active and using Twilight Grasp allows a Dark/* to reduce enemy damage output by 50%, and again, that's discounting the ridiculously good base heal in Twilight Grasp.

And Howling Twilight applies a mag 2 Stun (15s base) and 62.5% -Recharge.

Regen Aura, slotted with three +0 SOs, provides ~975% +Regen. Including the base 100% Regen, this results in a regeneration rate of ~1075%.

That translates to one tick of 5% health regenerated every 1.115s.

Survive 5s and you've recovered 25% of your HP.

Oh, hey, look at that, there's a self-affecting heal available which can be slotted up to ~25%, animates in 2.03s and has a base 8s recharge. That means an Emp/* who has slotted his/her PBAoE heal for Heal and Recharge Reduction can heal him/herself for ~25% every ~6.1s.

Hm... 6.1s with 5% HP regenerated every 1.115s and 25% HP restored by the heal... 6s, over 50% HP recovered. Somehow, I'm not convinced by your claim that Emps can't take a few hits.

Yeah, some critters are resistant to KB/Repel. And sometimes a power misses. And that's not really going to slow down a FF defender the way you think it will, because critters with resistance to KB/Repel aren't common and most players do slot their powers appropriately, such as adding Accuracy to powers with hit checks.

And that FF defender gets something that only one other type of defender gets, protection from Holds and Stuns, in exchange for having lower personal protection than some other primaries.

Play a defender without any status protection, play it to 50 solo, and you'll have some clue just how much of a difference that makes and why it makes FF not just tolerable, but very, very good solo.

And Hold/Stun protection, which is more valuable than you appear to understand.

No defender is in any real danger, regardless of primary, unless he/she is taken out of the fight by a status effect. FF sidesteps that for two of the three most common and debilitating status effects. It does matter. It does make a difference.

50% -Damage, the most powerful AoE heal in the game, auto-hit Repel, the ability to completely drain a target's endurance, 20% -Recharge...

Accelerate Metabolism. Lingering Radiation. EM Pulse.

Sonic Cage. Sonic Repulsion (auto-hit). Liquefy.

Storm can also floor recharge times, has the single best KD patch power in the game (yes, i rate it above OSA, as much as that may surprise some people), has a PBAoE Stun (mag 2) and has a couple of powers which significantly contribute to damage output on their own, without even taking Freezing Rain's -Def and -Res into account. So a Storm doesn't have to scatter foes when playing solo, even if that's the only thing you imagine happening.

Then it's fortunate, isn't it, that TA also has 45% -Recharge, the best AoE Hold in the game, a 66% chance for mag 2 Sleep and a KD patch which is capable of defeating +1 minions by itself.

Defenders do have lower base damage output than blasters. And they do have lower HP. Everything else you've said, even many of the numbers you claim to have quoted directly from Mids, has been wrong.

You missed more than a few, and you understood none of them.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

We don't? Who is this "we"?

Not in the context of damage boosts. You did not mention any Resistance debuffs except Sonic's, and even there you may have been referring to Sonic Blast instead of a primary.

Again, I was discussing only damage-boosting in that paragraph. I was highlighting your use of the word "some" to describe the ratio 6.5/9. That is "most" in everyday English. Insisting on the term "some" due to technical correctness sounds dishonest to me.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Sigh.

I've already said I'm not going to go searching for threads when my claims have been attested to by other posters IN THIS THREAD.

THIS is dismissive. I've aready said these complaints are not rare, so you simply declare I don't know what I'm talking about and wave your hand. It's not going to make me go away.

I didn't invent any problems, they exist. Others noted them before I ever did. Any data I've used has usually come from Mid's, though I have pulled numbers directly from the combat logs, on occasion. If you have an issue with my numbers, I suggest you tell Mids that his numbers are wrong, and inform the devs that the combat log is producing false data.

THIS is what I've been saying over and over, to a chorus of being told I don't know what I'm talking about.

There are Defenders that have low damage AND low defenses. You can't possibly dispute this, yet for some reason, you continue to try.

Interestingly, you describe how Defenders have the ability to boost their damage, and say I missed so many things, but you don't seem to realize that I have never suggested increasing Defender damage. I didn't mention those powers because they don't provide any kind of defense.

I never said that there were sets that have NO mitigation, only that there are sets that suffer from FAR LESS. A Force Fielder can only use Dispersion Bubble (though the powers that bounce foes around help, when they work). An Empath can use only THREE of his 9 powers for his own benefit. Cold and Sonic suffer similarly. You'll notice these are all BUFF sets, and AS I KEEP SAYING, this is where Defenders need some help.

Tough, fully slotted is 23% so Cold Dom's 20% is less than Tough. You can't compare an unslotted power to a slotted one, so I compared them fully slotted with SOs. These are not "Ultimo numbers," they're from Mids, so I suggest you take it up with him.

7% Defense is negligible, however you choose to spin it. Yes, Dark does better with less Defense because it's coupled with debuff to the foe's accuracy, but 7% is still negligible. I've been told that Defense really only starts to be useful around 20% (though, in fairness, my own experience with it, while limited, has shown that 15% is where you start to notice it's value). And AGAIN, I've already said Dark does fairly well.

Regen Aura does provide a very serious regeneration boost, but you have to live long enough for it to be of any use. When foes are often doing 30-50% of your health with every hit, you're not going to last long even with the aura in effect.

The Force Fielder does have protection against most status effects, that's true, but I've seen PLENTY of foes resistant to knockback. Add to this that knocking them back is VERY endurance intensive, and you have little choice but to PFF after a couple of foes (because you have little ability to take damage).
I will say, however, that I'm playing a Force Fielder because by the time he gets into his Epic Pools and picks up Temp Invulnerability, he's going to have 71% resistance to smashing & lethal, as well as 30ish% Defense to everything! Not small numbers, by any means. He just has to wait a rather long time for them.

Until Fulcrum Shift, Kinetics is limited to 25% damage reduction, if it hits. Same for the heal, it's not always reliable. Same with Repel, it's not always reliable. I didn't realize Transference could drain ALL the endurance from foes, and in an AOE, no less! That is useful, indeed. Again, though, I've said all along that Kinetics, like Dark, seems to perform fairly well.

Accelerate Metabolism is only a 30% regeneration increase. Relatively minor considering the Defender's low health. It's most important use is the recovery buff. I already addressed Lingering Radiation, and EMP Pulse is an occasional use power. It's the equivalent of a Nova, and can't be considered a power for regular use.

Sonic Cage, like other similar powers, is of limited value, but can be useful. The repel in Sonic suffers the same disadvantages (reliablity, endurance cost) as other repels, and Liquefy is another occasional power.

Storm's Thunder Clap is borderline useless. Its accuracy is appalling, and it only affects minions. On the upside, if it DOES hit something, it can be stunned for a very long time.
Freezing rain spreads foes out as the run. Hurricane and Gale scatters them. Snow Storm causes them to scatter (very slowly). Tornado tosses foes around randomly. Lightning Storm has significant knockback and will scatter foes too. Only O2 and Steamy Mist don't scatter foes, and O2 can't even be used by the Defender while the mist provides very limited protection. Since the only other source of protection is Hurricane, Storm Defenders facing scattered foes are at a disadvantage. Indoors, they can't scatter as far, and can be pinned in corners. Outdoors, that's not possible.

Slowing an enemy's attacks isn't going to help you if they're demolishing you in a couple of hits. The Trick shooter is still not going to have any actual defenses and his damage is still going to be low, so he's still going do get killed. The "best AOE hold" you refer to is another Nova-style occasional power. If you're going to start counting these, then Tankers have well over 100% mitiagtion (and we both know that would be misleading).


I didn't miss anything. What you say I missed were powers to boost damage, and I wasn't referring to that. Again, I'm simply quoting the numbers directly from Mids. if you don't believe them, I suggest you complain to him.

See, this is just obstinacy. He's saying that you can't convince him and he can't convince you. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the relative validity of either argument.

He was just trying to be polite.

Lack of change doesn't imply balance. It could as easily be that the changes needed would be far too sweeping or damgerous to make without considerable time.

I don't consider a large porportion of an entire AT to be a "tiny fraction."

There has been much evidence to show that some powersets are NOT strong, that what we want ISN'T already provided for. When this evidence is presented, we are told we don't know what we are talking about and dismissed out of hand.

Well perhaps you are unable to hold a discussion WITHOUT being condescending.

I dont expect to "Win" this debate with you. Nor so I expect any 'warm and fuzzy' memories from our debate. But you have not succeeded in convincing me that my opinion is invalid, so we are left on opposite sides of the aisle still.

One thing that seems to escape everyone, is that you ask me for proof that changes would NOT be unbalanced. But unless some of these "Ideas" that myself and others have proposed are actually implemented and tested. We cannot "PROVE" they are not unbalanced, any better than you can prove they are.

So, If I "Walk AWAY" from you and your opinion, I neither view that as a "WIN" or "LOSS" for your side or mine. If you choose to view it in your own way, thats your free right.

No. This is principle. I'm saying that he will actually need to convince me - but I have no intention to simply 'agree to disagree' and move on.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

I didn't say anything that was wrong.
Rad doesn't provide adequate offense or defense (it provides a bit of both - what's to be considered adequate is the issue). Cold, FF, Sonic and other sets don't have the tools to provide offense or defense to the Defender. I've already shown this.

You've already made it abundantly clear you will not be convinced. He's made it equally clear HE will not be convinced.

You're refusing to stop arguing unless he convinces you, when you've made it clear he can't, regardless. That's obstinacy.

You maintain your sterling standard of not actually reading.

I am willing to be convinced, and I have outlined at length in this very thread exactly where I'm coming from. Biospark has not yet responded to the discussion itself, merely to attest that he will respond. I made it known that I'm not going to simply 'move on' from a discussion if he enters same.

You, on the other hand, are further attempting to demonise my position. Do you fancy actually going forth and expounding upon any of my points? Refuting them? Actually contending with facts rather than the lies you make up to justify your bad play coupled with your bad arguments?

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

I dont think I have shifted my position at all. In fact it has remained unchanged. Please dont make it sound like I have changed my position. Neither of us have moved an inch. I actually have only made comments to individuals that have dismissed my opinion out of hand. There are many people in the community that have made their point without calling me ignorant in the process. Call me a mirror. If you start up with me, expect response in kind.
As far as Storm and Rad being bad for soloing, you have me mixed up with someone else, I certainly dont put either of those 2 sets on the 'Hard to solo' list. In fact RAD is perhaps the EASIEST set to jump right into and solo like a champ of all Defender sets.

I agree with this conclusion completely. Variety and differences are Paramount to successful design.

Well, I have to agree with your assessment of the game in an overall way. But I have to ask you how making a game 'Easy' in general promotes group play. I tend to think it would have the opposite effect and push players to challenge their characters by ,hmmm soloing AVs, doing full 8-man mission maps. There is also the Genre to consider. One of my personal tired arguments is "did you sign up to play a Hero or a Sidekick"

Yeah, I think every game evolves from its inception and as players 'Learn' the options, people tend to lump together and form pre-conceived ideas of each "Class, AT, etc..." But just as often, you find really out of the box applications which I kinda gravitate towards. Example: Blappers.

This is, I think one of our core disagreements. First off, I didnt choose to be less solo-able or more team-friendly. Simply put, I did not design the game. Those choices are made before I ever loaded the game on my computer. I do agree that after playing for a very short amount of time, I was able to determine that my FF defender was kinda impaired for solo play. So, in essence, I am left with choosing some other powerset than my first choice in order to feel like a Hero (One who can solo and team to MY satisfaction). Yes, I have placed a personal gauge on what is Heroic. And it may be different than yours. But my game experience and enjoyment are the reasons I pay the monthly fee.

Also one of our core differences. I can see your argument LOUD and clear. It has been repeated over and over,
but what I propose is NO change that would improve these sets in a team environment by any significant amount.
Using FF again as an example. An 8-man team receives the full benefit of 3 shields (or 7/8ths of the team) That 1/8 (lets call it 12.5%) is the Defender. So, your view is that if that 1 man gets defenses as high as the other 7 this is unbalanced. I will admit that the team, is improved by that change, but more along the lines that the defender is less of an achilles heel than before. But I dont see this as such an earth-shattering change for groups at all. But certainly could bring a FF more in-line with the other 'solo-friendly' sets.

I truely understand your fear of changes coming with nerfs in hand. I do. I hope that this is not actually the reason you object to improving the game. Because, I personally feel (this is from observation in game, not calculated server populations) that certain defender sets are much more common as a Controller's secondary than as a Defender primary. I would point to that as evidence as to WHY the changes I feel are necessary are not being done, rather than "working as intended"

Hmm, I am not sure whose ideas these are. I have never advocated powers that shut off.
What I have advocated is precise and surgical changes to certain powers to improve the solo ability without changing the team effects. Additionally, I think only certain powers need to be touched, not ALL ALLY only powers. Could be that you have me confused with others.
The best way I see in helping certain Powersets is to target a power(or 2) and change them into PBAoE much like Accellerate metabolism. I will not list ones I think should be changed, unless you are willing to realistically discuss WHY it would be overpowered.

I'll point out that I never said tankmages aren't overpowered. I said that they couldn't be considered so if EVERYONE was a tankmage. I've also said that this is not necessarily a desirable couse, especially with the game being constructed as it is.

I described a character running out of endurance while spamming a single attack, because that's what happened. Again you omit that I pointed out that the character was fighting endurance drainers (I dont' recall now, but I think it was Freaks). Any anecdotes I provide are simply that, anectodes. I've always described them as extreme examples that illlustrate in no uncertain terms what I'm referring to. You call these "fabricated," in essence calling me a liar. It's this kind of personal slur that I threaten with reports. Personal attacks are not allowed, and I will report them. You are notorious for them. I always approach every new thread from a position of respect and courtesy. It' is only after extreme provocation that I step back from that position.

I didn't say Rad is no good for soloing, I said it, like other Defender sets is at a disadvantage relative to most other ATs and power sets. I subsequently providede numbers from Mids in support of this.

Of course I support my agenda, that greater balance be provided for power sets currently at a disadvantage. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't?

I'm all for reason and debate, but every time I come here, and especially when certain members of this community participate in the debates, I find my person under attack. If choosing to defend myself from personal attacks is indicative of "a man given to reason and debate," then I will take that description with pride.

Okay, this part made me mad, but I'm going to try to explain this as calmly and clearly as I can. There are only a few true statements in the above post, including but not necessarily limited to: thunderclap being useless and O2 boost being unusable on the caster.

In the above post you mention that Snow storm causes enemies to scatter (very slowly). This is the secret to a large part of Storm Summoning's damage mitigation. By dropping snow storm and freezing rain on a mob, you trigger its escape AI which makes them -stop attacking- you. Freezing rain + snow storm will put enemies at the movement floor, which means that it takes a -very- long time for them to escape, during which they aren't attacking anything. This is often more than enough time for your team to AoE death most of the spawn, leaving a few enemies left to be picked off.

Lightning storm does not have significant knockback, and does not cause a notable amount of scatter. It will always attack the closest targets, meaning that all it will do is push a group in a certain direction as long as you don't summon it in the middle of a mob.

Also, hurricane is perfectly usable outdoors. In fact, I find it -easier- to use on outdoor maps than indoor ones. Outdoor herdicaning involves circling an enemy group, pushing them very lightly into a small clump. Getting them together on an indoor map is actually harder since many rooms are too narrow to hit a group with hurricane from multiple angles without running through the middle of them.

This is all really a moot point though, since this is about soloing, and the only powers I use while soloing are my blasts, toggles, and lightning storm. Freezing rain is used on bosses/elite bosses only. And in case anyone points out that I'm sonic blast, I do the same thing with my storm/energy and storm/ice.

A couple of people does not constitute "endless threads".

Third time, are you going to show me those "endless threads" of people complaining about defender soloability, or are you going to continue to weakly insist that "they're there, you just have to find them"?

Put

Up

Or

Shut

Up.

Okay, let's see how common these complaints are.

First page of the defender forums, I see this thread. Scrolling down, I see a second thread, but by the 9th post of that thread, the OP's complaint was already proven to be dramatization on his part. Nothing else on the first page.

Second page... nope, no-one insisting that defenders suck solo.

Third page... first post, someone demanding a damage scale increase for defenders, but not because of solo concerns, no, it's a Going Rogue "no-one will team with me because corruptors are teh betarer!" panic attack. One more post complaining about defender damage, but as before, it's entirely focused on teams, not solo.

If I keep going, is this mythical "common complaint" going to manifest? No, because no matter how many times you insist that it's happening, it isn't.

So once again, your hyperbole and ranting has been proven to be just that, hyperbole and ranting. Just like every other time you've done this. You provide no evidence when asked. You offer nothing but personal opinion backed by "facts" invented on the spot. And when pushed, you insist that everyone else is wrong and tell us all to go find the proof ourselves.

But we all sit here, trying to explain things to you, trying to reason with you, and you ignore us, then tell us that we're being dismissive because we don't accept your statements without question or stop asking you to provide proof of your statements. I am dismissive because I refuse to acknowledge another one of your blatantly deceitful attempts to get an AT buffed after seeing you do it over and over again dozens of times in the past. Yes, that must be it, I'm the one who's not being reasonable here.

You know, you're about one step away from portraying yourself as a paranoid raving drama queen. Might want to back up a bit before you go completely over the edge. Take it from me, crazy isn't as fun as it looks on television.

You didn't deliberately skip key powers in your FF/Energy build, then argue with everyone who tried to help you improve it?

Bull doody.

Others were given advice, the advice was followed and there was happiness in defenderland again. Except for the handful of people, like you, who simply cannot abide by the thought of the game not changing to suit their whims.

Neither the game nor Mids' lists Tough above 15% for any AT.

Neither the game nor Mids' shows TA defenders having "around 25%" -Res. And you can't even say that you might have had some enhancements skewing this because -Res is not enhanceable, so there goes your only weasel hole.

Do you really think tens of thousands of players who use Mids, or over one hundred thousand who play the game, wouldn't notice these things? Especially after many, including myself, have tested these numbers and verified them so often?

How stupid do you think we are?

No, Ultimo, I don't try to dispute it, I absolutely laugh in the face of it because it's based on the Ultimo Play Style theory of skipping primary and secondary powers which [b]would bring the player up to par[/i].

No, there is nothing to dispute because your entire foundation for the statement is in error. YOU skip key powers and complain about the solo capabilities of your defenders, and YOU see that as a flaw in the AT or game. I don't do that. Talen_Lee doesn't do that. Uberguy doesn't do that. Almost no-one else does that, and of the few who do, they ask for help and we help them by telling them what those skipped powers do and why they're worth taking.

But you keep doing it, and coming back here to fuss about it because you do not want to accept that the game is not City of Ultimo.

You prove nothing, except how inflexible and demanding you are. You certainly don't prove that there's a problem, nor do you prove that any intelligently built defender, regardless of primary or secondary, cannot solo efficiently, safely and easily.

There is no dispute here because you bring nothing but your own personal fantasies to the table.

I quoted you line for line, you started your post discussing options available to defenders for increasing damage output and specifically mentioned Kinetics, Rad and TA, and said "boost damage", "increase damage output" and "boost comparable to what Kinetics provides".

If you don't even know what you're saying at this point, it's a good time to stop saying anything.

"SOME have access to defensive tools"

That implies that others do not.

How far are you going to backpedal? You are aware that everything you've said has been quoted, so even if you try to edit it all out or change it, you're still hoist on your own petard.

And you also utterly ignore all of the other things these defenders can do, or imply that auto-hit powers are not reliable, or that having the same 95% chance to hit that everyone else has is not reliable enough, or that having any kind of "kryptonite" like a foe resistant to KB is somehow utterly debilitating for all time, throughout the entire lifetime of that defender.

You take the most extreme corner cases and try to paint them as the most common situations. Not just once in a while, consistently, and at the same time, you categorically deny that the defender has other tools to deal with those corner cases, you simply say "He's going to do this, then the enemy will do this and the defender is toast! TOAST! DOOMTOAST!". You refuse, absolutely refuse to accept that the defender in question could do something else and sidestep his/her "kryptonite", you just insist that the only solution is to buff the buffing sets.

Don't think or use any other powers, the solution is to change the game!

No.

I suggest you take another look at the planner yourself, because I'm looking at Arctic Fog right now, in Mids', and it's 20% base.

Need some catsup for that foot?

What is 7% Defense plus 10% -ToHit?

What is 7% Defense plus 30% -Damage and 20% +Resistance?

Stop thinking in one dimension.

Don't stand in melee range and let them hit you without doing anything at all to protect yourself. That's the only way you're going to be in a situation where enemies are capable of defeating you faster than fully slotted Regen Aura can bump your HP back up.

Is that really how you play? I doubt it, but I'm starting to wonder, since you're so adamant that the only way to survive as a defender is by relying on one power in your primary.

The occasional boss, EBs and AVs and GMs. KB resistance is even more rare than your mythical "endless threads" about players struggling while soloing defenders.

Force Bolt is 5.2 endurance.

Force Bubble is 0.69 endurance/s. For comparison, Snap Shot (the tier one with the fastest recharge) slotted with ~95% Endurance Reduction and 66% Recharge Reduction costs 0.82 endurance/s if all you do is shoot it repeatedly. It costs more to attack than it does to use Force Bubble.

Your FUD doesn't work here.

You have many, many choices. You can use Force Bubble or Force Bolt to knock them back/down/away from you. You can use Detention Field to give yourself time to recover. You can use your blasts and controls to disable and defeat the enemies.

You turtle up and pretend there's no other option, then come to the forums and insist that FF is horribly broken because you chose to ignore every other tool available.

And that irks you, so you come here to complain and demand changes.

What, you thought no-one saw your thread about making an Iron Man homage and turning down the blaster suggestion because you didn't want to wait until 41 to pick up the Force Mastery APP?

Be honest. If you'd done this character as a blaster, you'd be having this argument over on the blaster forums, insisting that everyone who disagreed with you was just being dismissive, that the AT was broken, that half the powersets were terribly designed, etc.

No it isn't. Go back and read my post where I responded to someone else on this exact point.

It has a base 1.2 accuracy mod. It's more reliable than Archery attacks.

It's auto-hit. The only way it couldn't be reliable is if you were using it against one of those rare foes with KB resistance.

Transference drains endurance from one hostile target and gives endurance to all friendly targets near the hostile target. Slotted for Endurance Modification, it can drain one target completely (as long as that target does not resist endurance drain, like an AV).

Perhaps you'll struggle less if you... read... pay attention...

But you've been implying that Kinetics is not performing acceptably. You complain that it can "only" apply a 25% damage debuff (wrong), you ignored FS completely, saying that it "wasn't something you use frequently", you keep referring to the heal as "unreliable"...

So it's bad, but it's good?

Backpedaling, the new Co* travel power, courtesy of Ultimo.

I mentioned it to address your complaint that "The other drawback is the extreme endurance cost. Before Stamina, the endurance cost of running these toggles and attacking is prohibitive." You can access AM at level four. Guess that shoots your theory that Rad struggles before Stamina right out of the water, doesn't it.

"Radiation has multiple debuffs to reduce enemy defense, making them easier to hit. With accuracy a limited problem, this is actually a limited benefit, and doesn't actually increase damage output much."

"Radiation Emission has a small heal, and powers that debuff enemy to-hit and damage, and even a hold. that makes it one of the most effective defensive sets. However, it has limits. RI reduces To-Hit by 48%, which is pretty decent. However, if your foe DOES hit you, you have no defenses. Fortunately, Enervating Field reduces damage by 25%. The other drawback is the extreme endurance cost. Before Stamina, the endurance cost of running these toggles and attacking is prohibitive."

That's your entire commentary on Radiation Emission. Nothing about LR. I'm guessing that you don't even know what LR does, but you're going to look it up as soon as you read this then come back and backpedal around for a while to try to convince everyone that you know what you're talking about. Again.

The same way FS can't be considered a power for regular use?

In other words, you don't want to use those powers and therefore consider the powersets broken and in need of repair, and are willing to crusade for as long as it takes to get them changed despite the fact that tens of thousands of other players are using them successfully.

You can slot for Accuracy, you have a power in the same primary which debuffs Defense, the Stun stacks with other Stuns and your penchant for deciding that you'll never use certain powers without even trying them to find out how they work still doesn't mean the AT or powerset is broken.

...

IT HAS A KNOCKDOWN COMPONENT! IT HAS A 70% -RUNSPEED DEBUFF! IT'S IN A POWERSET THAT CAN FLOOR THE MOVEMENT SPEED OF +3 FOES WITHOUT ENHANCEMENTS!

Why do you believe all powers only do one thing and can't be used in conjunction with other powers?

And can also be used to corral critters. KB/Repel management is not particle physics.

Snow Storm has no Avoid component, and it has a lower RunSpeed debuff than Freezing Rain.

If they're being knocked around randomly, then they're not attacking you, and if they're not attacking you, you're not taking damage. Correct? So you have a power which provides damage and damage mitigation, and you don't like it?

Would anything short of Castle's IWIN button make you happy?

Mag 1 is "significant knockback"? It's barely higher than KD, meaning they get knocked back about one foot, and it's "significant knockback"?

I suppose you consider a mag 0.67 KB, which is effectively KD, to be "almost as bad"?

Not

if

you

use

your

other

powers

like

Snow

Storm

or

Freezing

Rain.

Good grief, when will you grasp the concept of using more than one power at a time.

Then you should do something to prevent them from hitting you again. Think.

Do yourself a favor and stop now. You darn well know who you're talking to and you darn well know I can lay you to waste in any argument about TA. You are categorically and undeniably wrong, back down before you get humiliated so badly that your face turns red permanently.

The only problem TA faces, at the severity you describe, is in taking the alpha for a large (5+) team.

Disagree with me. Go ahead. Talk to me like you know TA one hundredth as well as I do. I relish the hilarity that I already know will ensue.

Ultimo, there is a world of difference between a tier 9 with a base recharge time of 1000s and a tier 9 with a base recharge time of 300s. Despite your continued refusal to accept it, a defender can and does use that tier 9 much, much more frequently than the tank uses his tier 9.

And the fact that you've never used those tier 9 powers which you steadfastly deny can be used frequently just betrays how little you know about them, about how they are used, about how they can be used or about how players tend to use them.

Give it a rest already. You're not saving face, you're just making yourself look worse with every sentence.

The equivalent of soft capped defence at 22 (against anything bar an AV) is not adequate ?

Really? Cold/ provides no offense or defense?

I don't understand why you keep inserting your foot in your mouth.

Artic Fog gives +resistance and +defense to the defender (and the team). Sleet provides excellent defense in the form of mitigation, and then there's Heatloss. Heatloss replenishes endurance and hits the enemy with -resistance (think of it as +damage to the defender) which gives the defender more offense.

I have limited experience with Sonic and FF but I've already seen some posters explain how off base you are with FF/ but you simply ignore their posts.

Lastly, it's obvious to me that you have very little experience with most of the sets you claim to be adequate or lacking. Perhaps you should take the time to ask about the sets or actually garner some experience. I have experience with Rad/, Dark/ and Cold/ from defenders and everything you've said regarding those sets has been incorrect.