Honest feedback about the Dominator changes
By
Brawlnstein,
Posted on: 2009-07-13 13:22 in Dominators
Day late and a dollar short?
I rolled a mind/nrg dom and it's no worse then leveling a brute to be honest. I can't just spam my attacks all willy nilly and actually have to considered when to use what. I even time Domination to help out in the low levels.
Feedback is never late, Castle may take this into consideration at a later date. I know he was looking into changes.
It was a joke really, and at level 12 and DOs your buddy should notice a difference. Not OMG difference but better nonetheless.
But having leveled 5+ brutes without PLing and a two doms (after the changes), the endurance usage is similar, IMO of course.
Drive by DOM alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On a serious note, tell your buddy to give it a few more levels. There was an actual numbers chart posted not so recently that outlined exactly what your friend is describing, Ulti. I think the peak for the smoothing intended by the revamp occurs somewhere around lvl 21-25 depending on prim//sec. If I am incorrect I pray a non"driveby Dom" steps up with more information.
The driveby comment was directed at Clouded. I cannot read his posts and have no desire to do so.
Have to agree here. I have had less trouble with any new dom then I ever had with any brute.
Better question is what are his attacks?
At 11 if he is using nothing but AOEs then yeah its gonna be horrible. I find my doms run out of end faster not becuase of my END problems but the fact that I'm just running from mob to mob wiping them out that I don't stop.
Before it would be. Fight a mob or 2. Rest. Fight a mob or 2. Rest
You just have to be more thoughtful of your attack chain. I have leveled since the changes
Fire/Thorn
Mind/Nrg
Plant/Nrg
Earth/Elec
Earth/Nrg
Plant/Ice
Ice/Psi
None had a problem completing a mission, and I don't even slot TOs or DOs unless they drop. They have all run commando (nekkid enhancements) upto 12. At that point each gets 10 lvl 15 IOs till 22. Again only time I ever needed to rest was when I was just rushing from mob to mob and even then it was maybe 1x a map.
Now I use only single target attacks in the low levels. The melee attack from most sets helps a lot. Timing your domination to fill your blue bar also helps. Its extra mag/etc is not extremely vital in the really low levels. It also helps to not use big guns on mobs with a sliver of health. Sometimes waiting a few seconds for the tier 1 to rech is worth it.
Again your friends mileage may vary, but I would seriously look at what attacks he's spamming.
Then slot accordingly, I find that most problems arise from the mind set of AOE is king, spam them like your singing the song.
Note, I'm saying this is what your friend is doing. Just that without knowing what attacks he's using it is hard to judge. It may not be the case.
Hope some of this mess of a post helps you and your friend out. Stick with it, once stamina hits you'll be doing the OMG this rocks take.
Ice/Ice is horrendously End intensive in the low levels. Arctic Air and ISC are the main culprits, so if your friend watches his usage of those powers he should do better. AA in particular can usually be put off until after stamina, as long as you spam the heck out of Shiver.
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Ice/Ice is horrendously End intensive in the low levels. Arctic Air and ISC are the main culprits, so if your friend watches his usage of those powers he should do better. AA in particular can usually be put off until after stamina, as long as you spam the heck out of Shiver.
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Bingo. If he has and is using Arctic Air that is his problem. Even with Stamina and SO's AA can still cause endurance issues.
I agree, skip Arctic Air and Ice Sword Circle in the low levels. Pick them up post Stamina at your own discretion.
I get through whole missions on my Ice/Ice Dom without having to rest. I always take a column of Endurance Inspirations with me, I use Domination as an Endurance fill, I slot for Endurance reduction (yes, even TOs help!) and I avoid the above-mentioned Endurance hogs in the early game (I usually avoid ISC forever).
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Ice/Ice is horrendously End intensive in the low levels.
[/ QUOTE ]Especially since /ice's endurance costs were left alone (unless this guy's attack chain is ISC, ISC, ISC).
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The driveby comment was directed at Clouded. I cannot read his posts and have no desire to do so.
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You should, I regularly give good advice whether people agree with it or not.
Well, interesting thing here: /ice's end costs remained almost untouched in the recent changes. ISC was the only one that changed, and that was a measly 1.7 end increase, which doesn't have much effect on a longer-animating slower-recharging attack like ISC.
Ice/ice simply has *always* been an end hog, especially pre-stamina, and especially if you took certain powers too early. I had plenty of experience with this when I took my ice/ice through those levels. You just don't have the recovery early on to sustain powers like ISC, arctic air, and frostbite, and even the ST attacks can drain you considering the rather quick animations. This isn't an artifact of the dominator changes. You just have to adapt to it - slot end reducers, use dom strategically (which is even easier now), and make sure you conserve end by not using a big power where a small one will do the job.
Oh, if I'm interpreting her comment correctly, I believe Ditzy's referring to this thread that I made a while back. Long and short of it is, the dom changes don't do much to boost damage before the late teens, assuming that dom was used to boost damage at least some of the time. The base modifier increases mostly start having an impact post 20 when better enhancements are slotted and the modifiers have settled into their final values. So, your friend is playing a naturally end/intensive combo which was not changed, and is not only below DO level, but is also below the level where the changes start to boost overall damage (and thus, overall end efficiency). The dominator changes aren't to blame for his end woes, and it ought to get better.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Arctic air is a massive endurance hog, its over 1.0 you need 3 ends in it & it's still end heavy. When you slot SO's or regular IO's it will get better.
At 50 maybe get numinas & miracle unique's, also the performance shifter chance for +end, they will help.
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Ice/Ice is horrendously End intensive in the low levels. Arctic Air and ISC are the main culprits, so if your friend watches his usage of those powers he should do better. AA in particular can usually be put off until after stamina, as long as you spam the heck out of Shiver.
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Yes, Ice/Ice was end heavy BEFORE the revamp. It's excessively so now IMHO. various Icey doms gave feedback during testing about how end hungry their various builds were. I wish I could find the posts as I believe some already had stamina and were still feeling the crunch.
On the other hand certain /thorny and /Energy doms have made out quite well. Your friend my try a reroll with one of those secondary's to see if that makes a diff. I really hope the dev team takes a look at Icey assualt, it needs rebalanced in terms of end costs.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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Ice/Ice is horrendously End intensive in the low levels. Arctic Air and ISC are the main culprits, so if your friend watches his usage of those powers he should do better. AA in particular can usually be put off until after stamina, as long as you spam the heck out of Shiver.
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Yes, Ice/Ice was end heavy BEFORE the revamp. It's excessively so now IMHO. various Icey doms gave feedback during testing about how end hungry their various builds were. I wish I could find the posts as I believe some already had stamina and were still feeling the crunch.
On the other hand certain /thorny and /Energy doms have made out quite well. Your friend my try a reroll with one of those secondary's to see if that makes a diff. I really hope the dev team takes a look at Icey assualt, it needs rebalanced in terms of end costs.
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Read the part where we say Icy's end costs haven't been touched in the revamp except for Ice Sword Circle.
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I wanted to post this here. One of my friends that I play World of Warcraft here I recently got back into the game. Due to his job, new baby, and wife he only plays at very oddball hours. Thus, he has a hard time finding a group.
His main is an Ice/Ice Dominator that is currently 11. Since the dominator changes he says he has a REALLY hard time leveling or soloing. His exact words were "I run out of endurance every fight and can barely complete a mission." -- I made sure to ask if he was on the lowest difficulty setting and he was.
Now granted the guy isn't using any IO's or anything yet and I haven't exactly seen his slotting. I do know his power choices and his only "mistake" was taking the AOE immobilize in Ice. I asked if he was using it in solo play and he said he did at first but quickly realized it was too endurance draining and didn't use it.
Ultimately, he was feeling very frustrated at low levels as a Dominator and said he wasn't having very much fun. I would definitely describe him as a "new" player even though he played the game around Issues 7-9.
Just wanted to post feedback.
[/ QUOTE ]This I doubt because Ice was the one secondary they didnt change the endurance cost on the single target stuff. Ice has always had issues with endurance but thats due to animation times. If they were playing other secondaries then I could see the complaints on endurance being valid post change. But overall you end up killing more stuff prior to having to rest compared to what it was before the changes.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Being fair, he might find endurance costs more prevalent because he's killing faster.
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The driveby comment was directed at Clouded. I cannot read his posts and have no desire to do so.
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You should, I regularly give good advice whether people agree with it or not.
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"Drive by DOM alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is much better advice when applied to you, then any acorn of wisdom falling from your tree, professor spells a lot.
You, Johnny Butane, and a few others are in a class all your own. Advice - knowledge = Drive by.
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Being fair, he might find endurance costs more prevalent because he's killing faster.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually that would make it seem less because you kill more stuff between the time you rest or use domination.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Being fair, he might find endurance costs more prevalent because he's killing faster.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually that would make it seem less because you kill more stuff between the time you rest or use domination.
[/ QUOTE ]Eh, I haven't found the experience of which I speak - but I hear it a common complaint about Stone Melee.
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The driveby comment was directed at Clouded. I cannot read his posts and have no desire to do so.
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You should, I regularly give good advice whether people agree with it or not.
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"Drive by DOM alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is much better advice when applied to you, then any acorn of wisdom falling from your tree, professor spells a lot.
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Is this the best you can do? So sad.
I have a 50 Fire/Psi who is completely IO'd out with huge end bonuses, accolades, 2 end recovery powers, the works.
Most of the changes that have happened with the doms I have been pleased with overall, or can deal with, but I think the end cost overhaul is a bit drastic.
I realize my playstyle is fast and furious, and that plays into the end cost, but I can only imagine what it would be like for a player who enjoys the fantic pace but doesn't have all the end bonuses that I have...to me, slowing down negates what a Dominator is. YMMV
So in summary, I would like to see some of the end costs scaled back, but otherwise, I think the changes are fine.
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I have been simultaneously leveling an Ice/Ice and a Mind/Psi, and I have found Ice to be more end intensive for essentially the same build (single target hold, single target immob/sleep, three single target attacks, and Confuse/Ice Slick). For example, my mind/psi ends a domination run with end to burn, while my ice/ice runs out before domination is done.
But I've played this game for a long time, so I'm aware that these things tend to even out in the end. I don't see a great reason for the early level discrepancy (especially given the usefulness of sleep versus the near-uselessness of immob), but I have the good sense to tough it out.
Addendum: Edited to say that I am very pleased with the dom changes. So far, the new doms have been next-level fun to play, and have really rekindled my enthusiasm for the game (and CoV, which I have never really been into before).
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Being fair, he might find endurance costs more prevalent because he's killing faster.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually that would make it seem less because you kill more stuff between the time you rest or use domination.
[/ QUOTE ]Eh, I haven't found the experience of which I speak - but I hear it a common complaint about Stone Melee.
[/ QUOTE ]That just means your not thinking about it in the right way. If you are killing more stuff in between rests then its supposed to feel like you are killing more stuff for same amount of endurance. The issue is with doms is we have a ton of over kill damage. To be honest I like it better when all the tier 1s did more damage because I actually overkilled less and had reason to slot the tier 1 for damage. The tier 1 actually got used as opposed to now.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Being fair, he might find endurance costs more prevalent because he's killing faster.
[/ QUOTE ]Actually that would make it seem less because you kill more stuff between the time you rest or use domination.
[/ QUOTE ]Eh, I haven't found the experience of which I speak - but I hear it a common complaint about Stone Melee.
[/ QUOTE ]That just means your not thinking about it in the right way. If you are killing more stuff in between rests then its supposed to feel like you are killing more stuff for same amount of endurance. The issue is with doms is we have a ton of over kill damage. To be honest I like it better when all the tier 1s did more damage because I actually overkilled less and had reason to slot the tier 1 for damage. The tier 1 actually got used as opposed to now.
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This is my one complaint as well. The tier 1's still aren't worth slotting (except possibly for set bonuses. ) I guess their whole point now is just as an unslotted filler attack for low level doms to put in chains.
I know that this is what seemingly many people wanted though so I suppose Castle is just satisfying that.
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A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
I wanted to post this here. One of my friends that I play World of Warcraft here I recently got back into the game. Due to his job, new baby, and wife he only plays at very oddball hours. Thus, he has a hard time finding a group.
His main is an Ice/Ice Dominator that is currently 11. Since the dominator changes he says he has a REALLY hard time leveling or soloing. His exact words were "I run out of endurance every fight and can barely complete a mission." -- I made sure to ask if he was on the lowest difficulty setting and he was.
Now granted the guy isn't using any IO's or anything yet and I haven't exactly seen his slotting. I do know his power choices and his only "mistake" was taking the AOE immobilize in Ice. I asked if he was using it in solo play and he said he did at first but quickly realized it was too endurance draining and didn't use it.
Ultimately, he was feeling very frustrated at low levels as a Dominator and said he wasn't having very much fun. I would definitely describe him as a "new" player even though he played the game around Issues 7-9.
Just wanted to post feedback.