Just a thought.. FIX THE CURRENT BUGS before I15

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Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons

Here's a thought:

Learn something about programs before demanding anything.

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Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

And your point? Like you have no bugs? Please. Thanks for your "trolling" of the forums. : D

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Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons

[ QUOTE ]
And your point? Like you have no bugs? Please. Thanks for your "trolling" of the forums. : D

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My point is

Standard Code Rant

If you can't understand anything about programs, how they work, how they're coded, and how complicated even the most simple program really is, then your demands that "all bugs must be fixed NAO" can not be taken seriously.

Therefor, I dismiss it.

Discussion ended.

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Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a thought:

Learn something about programs before demanding anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe thats why he is the player, not the creator. Even if he DID learn more about programs, went and took classes and maybe even earned a degree, he would come home and log into the same bug ridden coh. How exactly does learning about programs alleviate the situation. He is paying THEM to do the programming so he can explore the world they have provided.

No, "programming is hard" is not an excuse, and I think any professional game developer would take offense from such a statement.

OP isnt suggesting something new, and Im all for it. Ive crashed on average three times a session for the past week or two. That is three times more than Im used to. And it IS always when leaving or entering a zone/mission. I dont have the hardware he is working with, but like I said its a new problem.

So, make things easier and wipe the slate clean. Especially considering the bugs Ive been reading about on the test forum...

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FIX THE PLACATE BUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (especially in pvp... )

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Is life perfect? Are we humans beyond error? How come sometimes when I eat at Subways the food is great but when I repeat under the same conditions (same place, same server, same time) it's just missing something. Why is my train sometimes late even though there is a schedual?

Look I'm not saying these bugs shouldn't be fixed, far from it, but I don't want new stuff being witheld to fix things that are proving tricky and/or time consuming. If it cam be fixed, great, if it needs time ok. I don't thing the guys at the Studio are sitting around enjoying the annoyance the bugs elicit and laughing to themselves. They know it exists and will get to them. Case in point, Psychic Shockwave, bugged since i6. Heh heh wonderfully bugged but now finally being fixed, to mines and others consternation.

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Just want to see some general discussion and your thoughts.

How about fixing the current bugs that plague the game before the release of I15. How about the chat bug, mish end bug, freeze bug and about 5 or 6 of the ae bugs that still persistently plaque us before shoving another issue with all it's bugs down our throats. I have crashed more times today then ever before and it's starting to get irritating. 8 gigs of ram and two 2.6ghz processors with two more to spare aren't the problem so don't blame my pc either. Since I14's ticket nerf (and even from i14 itself) the game has so many bugs and things that are not being fixed properly that's it's a pain in the [censored] now.

And low and behold soon I15 may hit us with even more bugs because it's being pushed out for competition with champions. Please don't do it devs! no more bugs. Please fix what is already a pain to everyone. NO one likes the ae bug where peeps can't get back in a mish if a toon quits gameplay without quiting ae mish and ae team first. The chat is so annoying. game freezes for no reason when leaving a mish or anytime. Everyone has these issue so pls fix em before plaguing us with even more from a new issue.

Ok I feel better. So should I15 be released without these things being fixed or No? What are your thoughts?

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Okay... either you are explaining things poorly, or I've never experienced these bugs.

My only recurring issue with the game are all from my end (need a better processor and connection.)

I DO know how hard and time consuming it can be to track down a bug once its worked its way into the code. I also know unlikely it is that the Devs can spend that much time and effort when they have deadlines and pressure for new content - especially in light of Champions coming out this September (as of now), and DC's being released next year.

Repairing annoyance level bugs is just not going to be a priority.

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-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-

Because, yanno... they never include bug fixes in issues or post-patches at all.

Nope. Never. Doesn't happen.

Just because they don't advertise with the big stuff that they're working on a problem, doesn't mean they're totally ignoring it. Some stuff isn't just a simple, magical fix - there has to be consideration to get it fixed properly and hopefully not break something else in the process. Sometimes that takes a few tries.

There's at least a few bug fixes going out with i15, though whether you think they're of any import is another issue altogether.

...for the record, my rig is significantly inferior to yours and I haven't crashed since i14 was up on Test (and then mostly it was due to stuff that was crashing quite literally everyone else). So not sure what the problem is there.

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Ok I feel better. So should I15 be released without these things being fixed or No? What are your thoughts?

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Before side-switching happens, I'd love to have one major issue that was ONLY bug fixes. Major bugs, minor bugs, as many as possible.

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***
Lumin (D4,50), Caelestes Lux (PB,50), Corpus Operandi (MM,50)

That would be a bad idea. People are whining about the lack of content in Issue 15...what do you think would happen if they made Issue 16 have only bug fixes and no content?

There would be QQing on scales never witnessed...ok, maybe not AE Farm QQing or ED QQing, but alot of QQing fo sho.

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As much as I would love for the devs to just spend an issue fixing some of the existing problems, I can understand why they don't. They could delay I15 just to fix all the various issue, large and small, that people are having, but when I15 does finally get released they may find themselves right back where they were before. Every new issue brings it's own set of bugs as well as occasionally revisiting older bugs. From an efficiency standpoint it makes more sense just to fix things that can be fixed as they come along.

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[ QUOTE ]
That would be a bad idea. People are whining about the lack of content in Issue 15...what do you think would happen if they made Issue 16 have only bug fixes and no content?

There would be QQing on scales never witnessed...ok, maybe not AE Farm QQing or ED QQing, but alot of QQing fo sho.

[/ QUOTE ]


Honestly, I've heard literally DOZENS of people say that they want something like this. The global channel JFA (which is a FULL channel, btw) has had this discussed multiple times.

Btw, if you're confused by what I'm saying simply add a qqqqzzzwwwwwwwwweeeeee to the beginning of my post and it will then be written in proper "game chat" lanugage.

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I understand that fixing bugs is important, but delaying content for bug fixes would be a bigger mistake.

It's really choosing between the lesser of two evils. You're also assuming the devs don't fix bugs AND work on new content simultaneously, which they do.

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I understand that fixing bugs is important, but delaying content for bug fixes would be a bigger mistake.

It's really choosing between the lesser of two evils. You're also assuming the devs don't fix bugs AND work on new content simultaneously, which they do.

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There's also the assumption that the Devs could find and fix all of these bugs in the timeframe of a new issue. They might be able to get one or two of them, and maybe some older bugs, in a reasonable timeframe, but with code this complex, it might not be easy to track them all down.

Bugs can hide in seemingly innocuous places, completely unrelated to where the bug shows up in-game. Finding those can be a PITA.

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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

<QR to tha OP>
I'd just like to point out that how powerful your system is may have nothing to do with crashing in your case. If you're having issues with crashes, post a CoH Helper and Hijackthis report in the tech forums and let the gurus help. It's usually something related to background processes or drivers.

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Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.

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That would be a bad idea. People are whining about the lack of content in Issue 15...what do you think would happen if they made Issue 16 have only bug fixes and no content?

There would be QQing on scales never witnessed...ok, maybe not AE Farm QQing or ED QQing, but alot of QQing fo sho.

[/ QUOTE ]


Honestly, I've heard literally DOZENS of people say that they want something like this. The global channel JFA (which is a FULL channel, btw) has had this discussed multiple times.



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And those same people would complain about having nothing "new"coming out in the time they'd take to "fix all the bugs" - something that, frankly, would be impossible. Hell, some bug fixes end up introducing *new* bugs (or reintroducing old ones.) Would you be happy if the chat bug somehow redid the old Tram bug, where you'd be sitting at a station for several minutes waiting for it to be active? Or maybe if it destabilized the Global server? Of course, then they fix that, which leads to 5% of chat dialog from NPCs (which might not sound like much... but think about all the dialog in game) turning into P-strings. (Ice Thorn Caster: "P02934023409328")

At what point do they get to stop "fixing bugs" and put in new content - knowing, of course, that those same code changes will invairably contain *other* bugs, or may interact with other code in an unexpected way, or open up an exploit that didn't exist before and that wasn't caught because nobody in testing was of a mind to be a jerk?

How many bugs are "good enough?" After all, bugs range from the major (old example: Mastermind pets do no damage to players in PVE) to the irritating but not gamebreaking (the chat bug) to the minor (typos in dialog.)

How many "bugs" are *not theirs* to deal with? (For instance, you say - or someone said - they crash constantly. I haven't experienced a crash in COH in *months* on my main system. On a secondary system, I have - but know I need to improve cooling, as it's a heat related crash.) How many are interactions with specific sound, video, chipset, processor, printer, fancy-keyboard, color calibration, or other-esotaric-device drivers? Do they have to test with every single revision of every single driver of every single piece of hardware out there? Of course, then they need to do the same with software. How many hotfixes are there for Windows XP alone?

How many people do you think would still be subscribed after that long stretch of no new content? Thus what they do now... *both.*

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That would be a bad idea. People are whining about the lack of content in Issue 15...what do you think would happen if they made Issue 16 have only bug fixes and no content?

There would be QQing on scales never witnessed...ok, maybe not AE Farm QQing or ED QQing, but alot of QQing fo sho.

[/ QUOTE ]


Honestly, I've heard literally DOZENS of people say that they want something like this. The global channel JFA (which is a FULL channel, btw) has had this discussed multiple times.

Btw, if you're confused by what I'm saying simply add a qqqqzzzwwwwwwwwweeeeee to the beginning of my post and it will then be written in proper "game chat" lanugage.



[/ QUOTE ]
Bugs basically come in four categories. Categories I just made up:

1) Game-breaking. Things don't happen the way they're supposed to, and it's causing a problem. These are addressed first. It's important to hit these first because they're actually causing real problems. Instance of such a bug: When quitting a team rewarded the whole team merits, meaning you could get almost 5x the intended number of merits per story arc/TF.

2) Really annoying. Things that are a big pain, but not really impacting anything seriously other than just making lots of people sigh. These are usually hit next, but it sort of depends on how many people complain. Instance of such a bug: When icons got reordered on the HUD and OCD people (like me) went bonkers. Still lasted about an issue, if I recall.

3) Slightly annoying. Bugs that are neither game-breaking or all that noticeable. Stuff people complain about, but most people don't notice, and it's not a big enough issue that people think to report it. Instance of such a bug: The current issue where global channel colors sometimes change when zoning.

4) Really minor bugs. Things that are neither game-breaking, nor really noticeable, nor really annoying to much extent. Usually these are also really easy to fix. It may just be a text bug, which takes 5 seconds to fix, which results in people going "OMG! Fix teh real bugs!!" Instance of such a bug: Anytime they fix the description of a power to reflect its actual attributes.

Any time the devs aren't busy with content, they may have time to look at bugs. But right now, they aren't just busy with i15. There are devs working on live. There are devs (apparently) working on the Science Pack. There are devs working on Going Rogue, i16, and probably a few at least discussing or conceptualizing stuff for i17 and possibly i18. There may be others working on the next booster pack, or other things I can't imagine. So they aren't just lazy, laying around doing nothing. They don't always have time to track down and fix bugs.

When they do, they'll shoot for #1 first, and then probably honestly #4 just because it doesn't take long. Between #2 and #3, it just depends on which one is easier to fix. It's not always quick and easy to fix something like the bio return bug. Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't, and there's research, testing, checking, and troubleshooting that has to be done.

In short, bug fixes will come when they can. Keep reporting issues and they'll eventually be addressed. You can't expect immediate compliance though.

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I also seem to remember a Dev post from a while back saying that it was a mistake to assume that just because new content was being worked on by people that bug fixes weren't being done, or even that the people working on new content could do bug fixes. There are different groups within the studio working on different things and there are always bug fixes and bug hunts going on even if the big red names aren't the ones doing it.

Bug fixes are grand, but it isn't either/or between new content and bug fixes.

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50s: Anaxagoras - En/En/For Blaster, Vicious Kittie - Claws/SR Scrapper, Rad. Therapy - Emp/Rad/For Defender, Anaximander - En/En/Mu Brute, Marble Vanguard - Stone/EM Tanker
Current: Vitriolic - 42 Bots/Poison MM, Aseity - 38 DB/WP Scrapper, Tai Shar - 42 Earth/Storm

Exactly. Having an issue that was 'just bug' fixes would result in the Bug team doing the same work they always do, and the Features Team getting a big paid vacation.

I suppose you could retask the features people to work on bugs, but then you'd lose time while they familiarized themselves with the process.

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<QR to tha OP>
I'd just like to point out that how powerful your system is may have nothing to do with crashing in your case. If you're having issues with crashes, post a CoH Helper and Hijackthis report in the tech forums and let the gurus help. It's usually something related to background processes or drivers.

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I was about to say something similar, basically sounds like a driver conflict error, everyone else is pwning him on his original rant, so I figured I'd work on something else.

I too, have a far inferior system, and can not tell you the last time I crashed.

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No

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

I think you underestimate our fools, sir.

Why /duel is a bad idea

I'd be happy if they just fixed that darn chat bug.

ljklllllllllllllllkekq;kqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqeeewwjjjwww wwwwweqeqq I mean seriously!

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I also seem to remember a Dev post from a while back saying that it was a mistake to assume that just because new content was being worked on by people that bug fixes weren't being done, or even that the people working on new content could do bug fixes. There are different groups within the studio working on different things and there are always bug fixes and bug hunts going on even if the big red names aren't the ones doing it.

Bug fixes are grand, but it isn't either/or between new content and bug fixes.

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Exactly this. And people forget that we basically only hear about what the red names are doing... and as far as I know, none of the red names are actually the programmers that work on the low level stuff where the bugs generally always are. So if they 'devoted an issue to nothing but bug fixes', then basically all the red names would just be sitting around doing nothing.

People often also don't realize that bug fixing is the hardest thing a programmer will ever do, because a bug could really be caused by anything in the entire code base (some of it written by third parties, code they can't look at or modify).

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pohsyb is one of the programmers, but I think he is the only one currently with a redname

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@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

[ QUOTE ]
pohsyb is one of the programmers, but I think he is the only one currently with a redname

[/ QUOTE ]Knew I was forgetting one! Well, it's not like they let him out of his box that often anyways

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