Redside is So Much Better Designed
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2009-05-29 08:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Beats me. Dull zones, duller contacts, horrible contact/mission system. That entire side of the game needs a revamp bad. Wouldn't mind seeing it for I17.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Yes, it is. The Devs learned alot from blueside to redside's benefit.
--Rad
/whereami:
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Why do people still play blueside again?
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Because some people actually enjoy it. If all you know is one side of course you'll see the differences as "strange" or pick it apart. Blueside was the first, so of course redside has improvements overall. That's to be expected. There are improved zones heroside (Faultline and the RWZ) where the devs learned what worked redside and incorporated them blueside. Some people though find the Rogue Isles ugly and unattractive....may not be a legitimate excuse to you, but one thats important to them. My personal opinion is to laugh when someone complains about travel blueside...please! Play some of the other MMOs then come complain about how long it takes to get across one of our zones. (Hint- its nothing.) Are our attention spans so short now instead of thirty seconds to get to a mission door 2 minutes is too long???? Besides, improvements in the trams, Oro, base and WW portals make travel to any zone so, so , so much quicker than it used to be.
Now I won't argue that some of the original 6 TFs could stand some "plastic surgery", esp Posi and Citadel but I'll say that some of the others are quite fun. And if you think the 35 store openings are annoying now, they used to not be listed on the maps, so you had to look for them, which proved hard if you'd never used a particular origin before. Truthfully though since IOs I don't even touch those stores anyway.
Personally I like both sides for different reasons, strangely travel times have nothing to do with it. As an "old timer" thats seen the game since Issue 1 those things (while improvements) aren't really what turns me on or off to either side. One thing to do is expect Praetoria to be an improvement even on what we have now, then prepare to hear people talk about how terrible redside is because they started the game after Rogue went live. Maybe just look at it as all one game and stop thinking about blue v. red.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Man...tell that to my buddy that I duo with....
He hates RedSide...and he isn't even a Dev O.o
:P
Actually, he loves it but hates the lag he gets over there...he swears it is only redside that he gets it...
Is redside on a seperate server? I can't figure out why its different for him...
/shrug
IIRC, it's the more intricate building graphics, etc. I get laggy over there, too.
I also don't like the look, and I'm not particularly fond of playing the "bad guy", although I'm sure I'll get around to it more once I get some better hardware. But, yeah, the design is much better.
Dec out.
Things that continue to bug me about the redside:
- My villains act like heroes waaaaaay too much.
- Too many AVs/EBs in the main missions. I can easily avoid AVs and EBs on the blue side until the 40s.
- Way. Too. Much. Longbow.
- Also excessive use of CoT and Arachnos. Ironically, the red side fights Arachnos far more than the blue side.
Naturally, the blue side has its annoying aspects too, including all that extra travel time. It tends to balance out for me. I enjoy playing both heroes and villains despite the annoyances.
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Man...tell that to my buddy that I duo with....
He hates RedSide...and he isn't even a Dev O.o
:P
Actually, he loves it but hates the lag he gets over there...he swears it is only redside that he gets it...
Is redside on a seperate server? I can't figure out why its different for him...
/shrug
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Different zone design and graphics cause some systems lag red side but not blue.
When CoV came along I had to reduce my settings from the max to recommended to work red side. When I got my new machine last year I was able to crank it back up to the max.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Man...tell that to my buddy that I duo with....
He hates RedSide...and he isn't even a Dev O.o
:P
Actually, he loves it but hates the lag he gets over there...he swears it is only redside that he gets it...
Is redside on a seperate server? I can't figure out why its different for him...
/shrug
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The geometry redside is much more complex in general, which puts more of a load on your system. The easiest fix is to lower your settings a bit.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Why do people still play blueside again
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Because I enjoy it.
I can't stand the layout of redside zones. The lack of any variety whatsoever in contacts, especially low level - and VEATs didn't help there at all. (Wait, you gave me ONE mission as my "arc?" WTH?) The lack of any alternate path to level.
Blueside? Atlas or galaxy - KR, or the hollows - Steel or Skyway, with a wander into Faultline if you so choose - Talos, IP, Croatoa, Striga, FF, Bricks, Cim, RWZ. Mix and match. If I want moody and dark, I can hunt in Kings and DA and play in Croatoa, then Bricks, blow up spawns in Crey's. Wide variety of TFs and trials.
Redside? Kalinda/Mongoose or Burke/Creed. Yay. Again. Newspapers, Bocor-Heck-Vandetti. Radio. On to Cap. Gah, Wheeler the Whiner? PVP contact. Go see Marino (running back to Mercy - yes, you can take the helicopter line, I know.) Oh, brass again. *snooooooooze* All this in what looks like a city that hasn't had trash collection in decades, and being an "old town" is laid out like utter garbage. Then, for some reason, you roll another and, with all the choice you have... do the *exact same series.*
Even the contacts I *enjoy* like Naylor, Television and Von Grunn get very stale when you've done them so much. Might be why I keep *getting* more 50s blueside - one of each AT, including epics, and two each of Controllers, Defenders, and Peacebringers, with a second Blaster a level and a half away. Redside, I still have to get a corruptor and any VEAT up there - I'm just *bored stiff* with it, even when it comes to ATs I enjoy like doms.
That doesn't even TOUCH on "Oh, look, more Longbow. More Arachnos. Hey, what are we fighting next, Arachnos or Longbow? Freakshow? Must be a bug. They must mean Longbow."
Edit: And don't even get me started on the utter *joy* *cough* of fighting hordes of highly mez-resistant enemies as a Dom - more in one arc than ten levels blueside - or the utter FUN of end-draining, recovery-crashing Mu throughout the levels, even more fun early on when there's no way in hell you have Stamina.
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Why do people still play blueside again
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Because I enjoy it.
I can't stand the layout of redside zones. The lack of any variety whatsoever in contacts, especially low level - and VEATs didn't help there at all. (Wait, you gave me ONE mission as my "arc?" WTH?) The lack of any alternate path to level.
Blueside? Atlas or galaxy - KR, or the hollows - Steel or Skyway, with a wander into Faultline if you so choose - Talos, IP, Croatoa, Striga, FF, Bricks, Cim, RWZ. Mix and match. If I want moody and dark, I can hunt in Kings and DA and play in Croatoa, then Bricks, blow up spawns in Crey's. Wide variety of TFs and trials.
Redside? Kalinda/Mongoose or Burke/Creed. Yay. Again. Newspapers, Bocor-Heck-Vandetti. Radio. On to Cap. Gah, Wheeler the Whiner? PVP contact. Go see Marino (running back to Mercy - yes, you can take the helicopter line, I know.) Oh, brass again. *snooooooooze* All this in what looks like a city that hasn't had trash collection in decades, and being an "old town" is laid out like utter garbage. Then, for some reason, you roll another and, with all the choice you have... do the *exact same series.*
Even the contacts I *enjoy* like Naylor, Television and Von Grunn get very stale when you've done them so much. Might be why I keep *getting* more 50s blueside - one of each AT, including epics, and two each of Controllers, Defenders, and Peacebringers, with a second Blaster a level and a half away. Redside, I still have to get a corruptor and any VEAT up there - I'm just *bored stiff* with it, even when it comes to ATs I enjoy like doms.
That doesn't even TOUCH on "Oh, look, more Longbow. More Arachnos. Hey, what are we fighting next, Arachnos or Longbow? Freakshow? Must be a bug. They must mean Longbow."
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That's why I like the 30s the best. Carnies, Freaks, and Wailers galore. 
Yeah, red side can be a bit too streamlined. That's why I flop around between various levels, ATs and sides of the game to keep it fresh. Even blue side too much of Faultline gets old.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Why do people still play blueside again? 
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That's a harder question to answer than you might think.
I play blue-side because I don't like the theme of villains. I find that the missions and content are, at best... morally dubious or grey. You very rarely actually feel villainous, most of the time I just feel like a [censored] as opposed to a villain. I also don't like the feel of the environment, I know it's supposed to be ominous and dangerous but I find it just kind of depressing and bland, not to mention dirty and unwelcoming.
The other reality is that you experienced the crappy parts of the game. The Positron TF is a pain in the neck, no question. Citadel is fun if you're on a good team that works well together and if you enjoy annihilating the enemy. It's one of the few TFs that really allows you to feel powerful if you do it right.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
To me the real problem is that there is no longer any reason to engage mobs as you run from mission to mission, like there used to be.
For those who remember waaay back to the game's beginnings. There was only Heroic setting (huge huge difference) and you could not get to you next set of contacts doing only missions (including all the hunts) except on teams. There was also no reduction in debt in missions.
All together this meant most people HAD to kill mobs outside to level or killing mobs on way from one mission to next might save you running to 1 or 2 additional missions later. Also since mobs in mission gave basically poor experience (being heroic) fighting outdoors was actually preferred by many.
Now fighting purse snatchers on way to next mission wastes time. They are rarely the exact level you like to fight in missions and they give extra debt. For the most part they have become little more than the NPCs walking by on their endless loops through the zone, window dressing.
I've never understood why hunt missions were removed on Red side. Blue side you can choose a mission or a hunt. If you don't like hunts don't choose them, but at least they have a choice. I see no benefit taking away that choice.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
I agree 100% with what Memphis_Bill said, and I'll add:
Hours worth of the same dull brown zones VS the bustling majesty of Steel Canyon and the awesome creepy feeling of Dark Astoria.
Travel in CoV? Why is EVERYTHING just a tiny little bit too high for me to jump over? Can't remember how many times I hit a dead end in Mercy and had to backtrack cause that chain link fence is just a bit too high. Convex architecture. Get super jump -> jump by a high wall, scale it, reach the top, realize it's convex, fall backdown, curse a bit, start your Raptor pack, wonder why you picked SJ anyways.
Has anyone ever used Super Speed in zones like Mercy, Port Oakes or Cap au Diable? heh.
Blueside. Thanks.
<QR>
I suffer from a unique problem. There are several blue side zones I dearly love, but I can't stand the hero AT's. To me, their villain counterparts are just more fun. And I also love MM's, which there is no real equivalent to blue side.
Needless to say, I'm really looking forward to Going Rogue. I'm hoping against hope we'll be able to side switch at a fairly early level, so I can finally have my favorite characters doing my favorite zones.
I too like the design of villains more than heroes for the most part.
What I do not like is the writing, which kills me because I am a fan of Shane Lacy Hensley. I guess he's not good at motivating evil.
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I've played redside almost exclusively for the past three years or so now. However, my server, Champion, is / was in desperate need of bubblers for Rikti mothership raids, so I gritted my teeth, and made a new Force Field / Dark Blast Defender.
Having managed to slog my way through that, I did some radio missions in Kings Row. Wow, they finally added stores there!
Then came the Positron Task Force. "Hey guys, come to Steel to meet me and start my TF!" "Okay, great, we're here in Steel." "Okay, good. Now, go to Skyway." Huff, huff, huff. "Okay, we're done in Skyway." "Great! Now come back to Steel!" Huff, huff, huff. "Okay, we're here." "Cool. Now go beat up these guys in Skyway!" "Again? Okay." Huff, huff, huff. "Vahzilok are terminated, sir." "Good job, guys. Now, head off to Perez Park." And so on, and so forth...
Why do people still play blueside again?
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I play Blueside because I have a large base, accumulated loot and I don't have to fight Snakes or Contaminated at levels 1-5.
I play Blueside because I can clear that same Posi TF in an hour to an hour and a half for 64 Merits.
I play Blueside because I can clear a Synapse TF for 59 Merits (?) in about an hour and a half or two.
By the time I'm level 20, I have almost enough Merits to afford a LOTG 7.5. Level 30 run a Katie (heh), then I cruise to level 35, run some fast ITFs or join FarmTank on a speed ITF/LGTF, collect more Merits with chances for purple drops as well.
Villainside:
Run Virgil Tarikoss for what is it now, 10 or 12 Merits.
Then I can do a Silver Mantis SF for 30 odd Merits...yeah.
So about 50 Merits, 65-70 if you did some story arcs. That's as much as I'd get in a Posi run.
I can get more rewards more quickly Blueside.
I don't have to do a Patron arc for my Epic powers Blueside.
Redside content kicks Blueside content in the posterior consistently.
There isn't enough content, not enough zones, not enough Merit sponging activities at the lower levels either.
Now, AE has made me play MORE Villains because I can skip the tedious Kalinda/Burke arcs and have my friend's Elec/Shield Brute just PL me to 22 or so.
Would love at least ONE grindy low-level SF that can be half-stealthed for 60-70 Merits.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
I enjoy both sides, I must be some kinda freak.
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Why do people still play blueside again?
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Because I still love it. I will never love redside, and only play it for a mere change of pace.
i play both, but for reasons, i just dont like playing a villain, never have, once gr hits all my vills are getting their alignment setting as blue as you can without switching. That siad, i agree entirely that redside benefitted from coming out after 2 years of experience gained from when blueside hit. The tf's are better, the zones are tighter and generally require less pointless zoning, hidden contacts are a interesting bonus and the writing can be brilliant, and mayhems are a lot of fun.
you can tell a stark contrast between launch day blueside content and striga, cro, faultline and the like, they are what blueside would have been if coh had launched with the lessons learned from the start. but hey, we can play both so do what you enjoy, i do love a lot of the redside at's, and while few others appear to, i love doms.
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Why do people still play blueside again?
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For me, it's because a good chunk of redside content makes me sick.
Sick because they are so evil or sick because if this was Fallout 3 you would have murdered most of your contacts for giving you lip?
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Sick because they are so evil or sick because if this was Fallout 3 you would have murdered most of your contacts for giving you lip?
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The first one.
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Sick because they are so evil or sick because if this was Fallout 3 you would have murdered most of your contacts for giving you lip?
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The first one.
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Look, you can't take over the world without breaking a few eggs.
But redside is like the Diet Coke of evil. For every mission approaching villainy, there are a dozen "Go drive the Lost out of a sewer so the Freakshow can live there" missions.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
I've played redside almost exclusively for the past three years or so now. However, my server, Champion, is / was in desperate need of bubblers for Rikti mothership raids, so I gritted my teeth, and made a new Force Field / Dark Blast Defender.
I can't wait until Going Rogue. I started off in Galaxy City, 'cause lol, Atlas Park. My first contact pitted me against the evil forces of Vahzilok. A lone Force Field / Dark Blast Defender against Abominations, Reapers, and Mortificaters. Not a pretty sight.
Having managed to slog my way through that, I did some radio missions in Kings Row. Wow, they finally added stores there!
Then came the Positron Task Force. "Hey guys, come to Steel to meet me and start my TF!" "Okay, great, we're here in Steel." "Okay, good. Now, go to Skyway." Huff, huff, huff. "Okay, we're done in Skyway." "Great! Now come back to Steel!" Huff, huff, huff. "Okay, we're here." "Cool. Now go beat up these guys in Skyway!" "Again? Okay." Huff, huff, huff. "Vahzilok are terminated, sir." "Good job, guys. Now, head off to Perez Park." And so on, and so forth...
After all that running around, I decided to cool my heels and do some AE missions in Atlas Park. Yes, I know, I'm dirty.
Then, out of sheer and utter boredom, I decided to organize a Citadel TF. "Okay guys, I'm here in Talos, right next to the tram. Come to meet me for some great missions." "Okay, we're here." "Great, now go all the way to the southern end of Independence Port, and beat up some Council." Huff, huff, huff. Finished, and ran all 1.5 km back to Citadel. "Good job, guys! Now, go back and beat up some more Council!" "Wait, this is the same spot we were just at. You mean I have to run another 1.5 km back to where we just were?" "Yep." "$@*(!"
Last night, I ran a mission to unlock the Science Enhancement store in Brickstown, which is a frakking maze of a zone.
Why do people still play blueside again?
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too