Enough is enough.... do something about MA/AE pls
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-05-27 14:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
It is pretty clear that this is the solution. Hopefully i15 on the test servers is is doing just this.
At least one of each level - minion, lt, boss. Preferably a couple of each rank.
The mechanics of the game know what to do they have the right options to pick from.
I also think that all mob groups should be required to have at least one critter with ranged attacks, fight, or reflection.
I'm leaning towards thinking that bosses, ebs, and AVs should always have reflections (for flight) by default.
All of these things would help reduce the rampant abuse that is occurring.
[/ QUOTE ]
my custom mobs are fire/ ice blasters,lts and bosses, with a dual blade melee base. double attack, ranged+dB.
is that an exploit?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It used to be pvp'ers that were the source of all evil in the game. The devs took that opinion to heart and ran them all out of the game.
Now it is the farmers that are the source of all evil and the devs are making a stand against them.
The farmers know that to kill them they need to drastically alter the game. Which, unlike the pvpers they were able to kill by changing all the rules in their confined zones and dropping a chemical weapon in there. It has no impact on pve.
The war against farmers will be long and bloody. There will be many casualties and the collateral damage will be extensive.
[/ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, this was an extremely ignorant thing to say.
PvPers the root of all evil in the game? Are you kidding me? Just because somebody plays the game differently than you does NOT mean that they are evil.
The same goes for farmers. Some people just enjoy the game in different ways. This does NOT make them evil.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think he was arguing that that was TRUE (that PvPers - o0r farmers - really ARE the root of all evil), but rather that the widespready propagation of this belief by a vocal minority fo players who domianted many parts of the official message-boards has helped inform the developers decisions on the topic, driving them first to turn away from developing PvP, and now to hit farmers with the nerf-bat (and, in some cases, the even more feated ban-hammer).
This perception may be partially accurate. there is no denying that developer interest in the PvP game waned for many years after it failed to atain anything resembling widespread popularity amongst the player base, and many in the community complained, in most cases with some legitimacy, about changes made for PvP reasons that affected their PvE performance.
However, I am inclined to believe that, whether you think it succeeded or failed miserably, the recent change to PvP was a genuine good-faith effort on the part of the developers to both revitalize PvP, and also ensure that PvP could be balanced without affecting the PvE game (enabling them to finally keep the promise they made oh so long ago when PvP was first introduced).
The outcry of members of the community undeniably plays a role in their desire to end farming too. Mr. Miller (AKA Positron) has, in fact, said as much in so many words. But I hardly feel that is the ONLY reason, and almost certainly not the most important.
[/ QUOTE ]sweet, nice talk.
can you give us the reason, in 1 short sentence?
i got mine , very short.
Money/jobs/economics.
What is yours?
[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously, I quite agree with you. Paragon Studios are a corporation, and like all succesful corporations, they have only one priority - to maximize profitability of their business (game companies do come along sometimes that place making whatever they subjectively feel is a fun game ahead of maximizing their revenue, but fi you can't think of one, dont feel bad - thats because, for better or worse, theyre almost all out of business).
If Paragon Studios are cracking down on AE farming it must be because the fealt that it would gain them more subscriberst han it lost them - or at least that it would loose them less subscribers than they would loose if they allowed the previous situation to continue.
The repeated, and, shall we say, enthusiastic complaints of many forum-goers may have helped contribute to that decision on their part, but the developers cetainly have access to far more reliable sources of information as well, and at least some experience in gauging the reaction of their player base, and if those sources and that experience had been at odds with the outraged cries of CoHs dedicated forum-warriors, then I tend to think they would have left people to their own devices.
Whether they made the correct decision is another matter. I think they probably did - as much as I wish this were a different kind of game that could better support a rush to the endgame, and a different kind of community that wasn't so concerned about one another's business, neither of those things is true. But even if you feel otherwise, I agree that right or wrong their criteria for making this decision was that they believed it would induce the maximum number of players to continue playing the game for the maximum amount of time.
heh, im joking. my mob is too hard for anyone, even me, thats why i like it.
________________________________________________
Besides, there is no solution to what is happening to this game.
The very solution would be like in FPS: you want to play version 1? here. version 1.25? there, another server... as for issues in cox.... 14 useless servers, save the servers for the game ppl want, save every sever for the issue ppl like.
i really would like a serious explanation: why the perma 46 if the devs dont like farms? why castle in PI? why PI aint a lvl 40+ restricted area? why atlas is not a minus lvl 20 forbidden one?
its a one click in programming.
Thing is, devs need the farmers, and the rp'ers.
Too bad, they acted very drastically towards the farmers, and the farmed felt guilty, and are so ashamed with nonsense that they leave.
its pretty funny to see how obvious it is, still ppl behave like they are Einstein and got a solution.
Not taking sides means no solution.
not solving this means,
lack of responsability towards customers.
Somebody is biting his nails right now, and its prolly not the nc soft co.
he got Aion
we got Aion, CO, etc... no biggie in the end.
One day, i will speak English as you do 
till then, im going to have a bordeaux 2006 et après, au lit!
Have fun man. 
Very interesting first forum post. Well, basically you made a big write up for nothing as what you are suggesting would change things in a way that is too restrictive for a tool of this type. In the end the devs have these things covered and they certainly will not implement silly suggestions that make no sense like these.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok this isnt a complaint at anyone or any group of players or anything like that, so dont take it anyway personally but...
I have been playing CoX in the EU for many a year now, moved over to the USA servers due to low populations in the EU and was really getting into the game again - a lot of fun to be had..
Then MA comes along and the farming that many knew would happen. Now, I dont care if people farm or pl or both, its up to them, but what I do care about is when its so damn hard now to get a team that firstly isnt doing AE missions, or if they are arent doing lvl 54 boss farms. Its madness. So many in Atlas just looking for great xp.
So we have heard about nerfs of certain critter types, and now... badges.. For heavens sake, no one really cares that much about loosing some badges - if no one has them you cant show off for having them so doesnt really matter, and the majority of people seem to do AE farms/missions for xp or inf/prestige.
So whats an easier way to deal with it... Come on devs... CoX was built with mobs already, they consisted of a boss or two, lts and then minions - why are the devs allowing people to create missions with mobs built solely of bosses.... Change that surely.... Yes people will pl and farm, nothing much is being done about it, and I dont care if they do, what I would love to see is people playing the game through the zones, teams that dont complain when they dont get 6-10k xp per kill and level twice or more in a mission....
and do we really need an auto sk system on created missions, low levels are playing lvl 40 missions and lvl 50 missions, on the back of a team that can actually hit. Turn it back to having to sk
Bring COX back please
Now I know someone will disagree. Cool, its all about peoples opinions, express them, maturely and for once lets not let this go into the gutter.. Thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
Waaa Waaaa. People aren't teaming with me because they want to farm instead. Cry me a freakin river.
You DO care that people are farming because they aren't around to serve YOUR needs. This argument is one of the most selfish ones against farming. Farmers are doing their thing and not expecting anything from anyone. But anti-farmers are expecting the farmers to stop what they are doing and serve their wants instead. It's total crap.
And the devs are handling this stupidly. How many people were really going to leave the game over farming? Now compare that to the number that are leaving due to the nerfs and threats of punitive actions. Smart move devs!
The real solution...
Get rid of teams and make everyone solo
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok this isnt a complaint at anyone or any group of players or anything like that, so dont take it anyway personally but...
I have been playing CoX in the EU for many a year now, moved over to the USA servers due to low populations in the EU and was really getting into the game again - a lot of fun to be had..
Then MA comes along and the farming that many knew would happen. Now, I dont care if people farm or pl or both, its up to them, but what I do care about is when its so damn hard now to get a team that firstly isnt doing AE missions, or if they are arent doing lvl 54 boss farms. Its madness. So many in Atlas just looking for great xp.
So we have heard about nerfs of certain critter types, and now... badges.. For heavens sake, no one really cares that much about loosing some badges - if no one has them you cant show off for having them so doesnt really matter, and the majority of people seem to do AE farms/missions for xp or inf/prestige.
So whats an easier way to deal with it... Come on devs... CoX was built with mobs already, they consisted of a boss or two, lts and then minions - why are the devs allowing people to create missions with mobs built solely of bosses.... Change that surely.... Yes people will pl and farm, nothing much is being done about it, and I dont care if they do, what I would love to see is people playing the game through the zones, teams that dont complain when they dont get 6-10k xp per kill and level twice or more in a mission....
and do we really need an auto sk system on created missions, low levels are playing lvl 40 missions and lvl 50 missions, on the back of a team that can actually hit. Turn it back to having to sk
Bring COX back please
Now I know someone will disagree. Cool, its all about peoples opinions, express them, maturely and for once lets not let this go into the gutter.. Thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
Waaa Waaaa. People aren't teaming with me because they want to farm instead. Cry me a freakin river.
You DO care that people are farming because they aren't around to serve YOUR needs. This argument is one of the most selfish ones against farming. Farmers are doing their thing and not expecting anything from anyone. But anti-farmers are expecting the farmers to stop what they are doing and serve their wants instead. It's total crap.
And the devs are handling this stupidly. How many people were really going to leave the game over farming? Now compare that to the number that are leaving due to the nerfs and threats of punitive actions. Smart move devs!
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the complete opposite of the obvious reality. If AE farms were left unchecked, people would have left in droves. Farmers would get bored of doing meows over and over and quit. Non-farmers, frustrated at the complete inability to get a non-farming team and that there's no point to running regular content when exploits give much better rewards, would have also quit. Newbies would come to a boring, repetitive grindfest and end up with 50s that they have no idea how to play, and quit in frustration.
Instead, we got a few people ragequitting, and an awful lot of people sticking around just to complain on the forums.
Im not sure I agree with this doomsday scenario of yours Backfire, but even if I did, the fact remains that he has a point. The frequent complaint that farming is wrong because the fact that people farm means that less of them are joining or starting the kind of (non-farm) teams that YOU like is a fundamentally selfish one. It is eerily reminiscent of the complaint that many of these same sorts of community members leveled against the old cryptic development team - that they were punishing people for having fun 'the wrong way'.
If you want to argue taht achieving higher levels faster and easier is bad for the game's long term survival, thats one thing, and Stapler is certainly not doing a sterling job of making the oposite argument. Indeed, this line of thinking, although Ive never been entirely sold on it, is really the ONLY legitimate complaint about farming. But dont try adn tell me that when someone whines about how people advertising for farm teams annoys them that they're doing it witha long-term opertunity-cost analysis of the game's future viability in mind. They're doing it because it anoys them that people aren't playing the game the way THEY think is fun. But Ive got news for you - I know quite a few people (not people I ahve a lot fo respect for, but they're out there, and they pay their fees the same as you and I) who find in-character, story-driven teams rediculous and deterimental to /their/ fun, and wish that people would stop forming them so they'd never be "tricked" into joining one again.
Also, on another, related note, there's a lot of hyperbole thrown around about how, "people are leaving in droves", or how the "obvious fact" is that the old system would have been worse. There are arguments to be made on both sides, and personaly Im sympathetic to the latter view, much I dislike the nerfs personally, but I really challenge either of you to provide any actual evidence to backup your bold staments. How many people have quit as a result of these nerfs? How many would have quit if they weren't made? Most importantly where are you getting your numbers from? If you are unable to answer all of those questions clearly and verifiably, then you have no business making declarative statements about what the "obvious" state of the game is.
[ QUOTE ]
i really would like a serious explanation: why the perma 46 if the devs dont like farms? why castle in PI? why PI aint a lvl 40+ restricted area? why atlas is not a minus lvl 20 forbidden one?
its a one click in programming.
Thing is, devs need the farmers, and the rp'ers.
Too bad, they acted very drastically towards the farmers, and the farmed felt guilty, and are so ashamed with nonsense that they leave.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is an obvious explanation to the questions you ask, but no one who has worked themselves into a lather has bothered to consider it because it takes all the wind out of their sails.
THE DEVS ARE OKAY WITH THE FACT THAT FARMING EXISTS!
They have accepted that some amount of farming needs to happen in order for people to reach certain goals
You see, once all the ragequitters accept this truth, then they have nothing to be really mad about. They must then accept that they have been overreacting and making themselves look like idiots. And the farmers aren't leaving because they "feel guilty." That would imply that those who were farming in the Architect have taken responsibility for their actions, which very few have done.
The farmers are leaving because they feel persecuted. The sad part about this is that the only place in the entire game that they are being told they are unwelcome is if they make farming missions in the Architect. The rest of the game is exactly the same as it ever was, with all of their old farms still in place, and not going anywhere anytime soon. Thanks to the hysteria that was worked up inside the farming community, farmers took the actions against them in the Architect to be an attack against all farming. This simply wasn't, and isn't, true, but hysterical people, by definition, lose the ability to think clearly.
The Devs have only acted drastically towards farming IN THE MISSION ARCHITECT. They acted drastically because drastic action was needed.
This is why "perma 46" is still in the game. This is why the Behemoth farms and "Liberate TV" farms are still around. This is why Peregrine Island and Grandville are not level locked. (By the way, level locking Atlas is a spectacularly bad idea. Having veteran players around to show new players the ropes is one of the great things about this game.)
Look folks, it is really simple. The Devs asked us not to make farms in the Architect. Anyone with a modicum of respect for them honored that request. It is common courtesy, which, like common sense, just isn't all that common. If I invite you into my house, and tell you that I don't allow smoking in my house, don't be surprised if I ask you to leave if you light up a cigarette.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
[ QUOTE ]
Now, I dont care if people farm or pl or both, its up to them, but what I do care about is when its so damn hard now to get a team that firstly isnt doing AE missions, or if they are arent doing lvl 54 boss farms. Its madness. So many in Atlas just looking for great xp.
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing worth pointing out about this is that the OP seems to think a majority of players are/were farming, a large enough majority that teaming became "so damn hard".
I don't think that many people were farming.
Plus try looking for teams in another zone instead.
Can we just get rid of MA please?
Honestly, all these problems would just magically dissapear if we didn't have this damned tumor in CoX in the first place. I, for one, would not give a rat's rectum if MA just suddenly ceased to exist. On the contrary, I would be celebrating, and returning to my gleefully "stale" mainstream content.
CoX was fine before MA. Now it's not fine. I wonder what the problem is!?
/rant
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
[ QUOTE ]
Can we just get rid of MA please?
Honestly, all these problems would just magically dissapear if we didn't have this damned tumor in CoX in the first place. I, for one, would not give a rat's rectum if MA just suddenly ceased to exist. On the contrary, I would be celebrating, and returning to my gleefully "stale" mainstream content.
CoX was fine before MA. Now it's not fine. I wonder what the problem is!?
/rant
[/ QUOTE ]
CoH is still fine. MA is a great addition. If you don't like it, don't participate in it. But don't take the fun away from the rest of us.
The only real "issues" are on the forums. The game is going fine.
"It's not a tumor."
[ QUOTE ]
i really would like a serious explanation: why the perma 46 if the devs dont like farms? why castle in PI? why PI aint a lvl 40+ restricted area? why atlas is not a minus lvl 20 forbidden one?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know the answer to the XP off and the perma 46. The XP off option really is for the ability to not skip content, and i know people who like to do this. They had a plan once they figured out people were making lvl 46 perma bridges but i think there is some issues putting it into place. If I remember correct the fix to the perma bridge was going to be that if your XP was off then anyone you sk'd would also not recieve XP. Again not sure why it was never enacted.
The other questions I can't answer.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i really would like a serious explanation: why the perma 46 if the devs dont like farms? why castle in PI? why PI aint a lvl 40+ restricted area? why atlas is not a minus lvl 20 forbidden one?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know the answer to the XP off and the perma 46. The XP off option really is for the ability to not skip content, and i know people who like to do this. They had a plan once they figured out people were making lvl 46 perma bridges but i think there is some issues putting it into place. If I remember correct the fix to the perma bridge was going to be that if your XP was off then anyone you sk'd would also not recieve XP. Again not sure why it was never enacted.
The other questions I can't answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would guess they didn't enact no exp for the SK is because it is not inconceivable that someone might turn it off and SK a friend to get them caught up. A manual leveling pact of sorts. So to fix a perma 46 scenario they would need special coding beyond just an exp block for an SK to.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok this isnt a complaint at anyone or any group of players or anything like that, so dont take it anyway personally but...
I have been playing CoX in the EU for many a year now, moved over to the USA servers due to low populations in the EU and was really getting into the game again - a lot of fun to be had..
Then MA comes along and the farming that many knew would happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
So in all the time playing EU, you never learned how to use the search tool to find people?
Have a look for it in the guides forum.
But if you do know how to use the search tool, here are some quick tips.
1) Sound excited. Ideally, BE excited, but sound excited.
2) Have a plan.
3) Communicate with your team.
People will usually be happy to play with someone enthusiastic who has a clear direction and keeps them in the loop, barring gross differences in playstyle.
Also, check your server board for global channels.
I realize that's more effort than broadcasting LFT in Atlas and hoping, but it's not much effort overall.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
See heres my point! WHY ARE PVPERS EVIL? Pvp is the funnest part of this game! Fighting Frostfire isn't! Destroying ai isnt a challenge. So if a person wants to fight another person in pvp zones, they are evil?
To the OP, I feel you on people not teaming to do anything else. Everyone is doing boss farms or some other cheesy mission and no one wants to run actual story arcs in ae. Thats not cool. But if thats what people want to do ........ ohh well.
one
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i really would like a serious explanation: why the perma 46 if the devs dont like farms? why castle in PI? why PI aint a lvl 40+ restricted area? why atlas is not a minus lvl 20 forbidden one?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know the answer to the XP off and the perma 46. The XP off option really is for the ability to not skip content, and i know people who like to do this. They had a plan once they figured out people were making lvl 46 perma bridges but i think there is some issues putting it into place. If I remember correct the fix to the perma bridge was going to be that if your XP was off then anyone you sk'd would also not recieve XP. Again not sure why it was never enacted.
The other questions I can't answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would guess they didn't enact no exp for the SK is because it is not inconceivable that someone might turn it off and SK a friend to get them caught up. A manual leveling pact of sorts. So to fix a perma 46 scenario they would need special coding beyond just an exp block for an SK to.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking it went along those lines but i know nothing about programing so left it vague. That makes the most sense though.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
City_Life wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
i really would like a serious explanation: why the perma 46 if the devs dont like farms?
[/ QUOTE ]
"Perma 46" is an exploit of the "no xp" feature in the game.
Although I'm sure you can spin =that= into your persecution complex as well.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
.....WHA???
Get a grip , dude. Perma 42 is ALOT better xp. Since when did using the "no xp" feature turn into an "exploit"?Last I read its "working as intended". You all are sooooooooo funny!! 
I remember some of these same complaints being directed at scanner/newspaper missions as well. For a long time, it seemed all I could find were teams grinding paper missions - endless herds of Council and Freakshow. Content designed as filler appeared to be displacing the main part of the game.
One reason was convenience. Newspaper/scanner missions don't require you to change zones, and they're quick, efficient means to XP and drops. AE shares these features, with the potential of having more entertaining stories than the filler missions.
What got me out of the scanner mission rut was joining one of my server's global channels. I found out there was lots of other activity other than the filler mission grind, and I had more fun.
So, my suggestion is to join a channel and not to be bashful. Even a comment along the lines of "Who wants to do something beside AE missions?" might help you find a team. Also, AE is the shiny new feature right now. After it matures a bit, you'll probably see teaming activity even out.
Good luck.
Some days I wonder if there should be an XP bonus for *non* TF/SF/MA teams only. Is that crazy?
[ QUOTE ]
.....WHA???
Get a grip , dude. Perma 42 is ALOT better xp. Since when did using the "no xp" feature turn into an "exploit"?Last I read its "working as intended". You all are sooooooooo funny!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Everything is quickly getting labeled as an exploit. Another thread has controlling mobs deemed an exploit now.
This is beyond ridiculous now. The devs have created one heck of a mess. As the head of the maids union I keep telling them "we need more lemon pledge" and Posi has told me a I'm supposed to bring that from home.
It is pretty clear that this is the solution. Hopefully i15 on the test servers is is doing just this.
At least one of each level - minion, lt, boss. Preferably a couple of each rank.
The mechanics of the game know what to do they have the right options to pick from.
I also think that all mob groups should be required to have at least one critter with ranged attacks, fight, or reflection.
I'm leaning towards thinking that bosses, ebs, and AVs should always have reflections (for flight) by default.
All of these things would help reduce the rampant abuse that is occurring.