City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Vahzilok Zombie AI... is this as intended?

BBhumeBB

By BBhumeBB,
Posted on: 2009-05-25 18:29 in Player Questions

 

Posted

I'm asking just as a curiosity, since this saved my bacon a few times just today, but I have to ask if the Vahzilok Zombie AI is working as it's supposed to.

Are they really just supposed to stand around and do nothing after you aggro them? Sometimes they lumber toward me and make a single attack... and then just stop.

This never pops up if there's a Reaper, Mortificator, or an Eidolon in the group. But if it's just Zombies? They just ignore as I destroy their fellows, and patiently wait for their own turn.

Is this just me, or is this actually as their AI is intended to act?

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Posted

That's how it's always been since day one, in my experience.

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Posted

If you lure away a zombie and defeat it, it brings Mortificators.

Zombies without Mortis, Reapers or Eidolons tend to be pretty helpless. I've noticed that as well.

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Posted

Their perception is hilariously bad. It's possible to use Assassin's Strike on one without alerting another that's standing right next to him

 

Posted

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I'm pretty sure that it's working as intended and they are supposed to be monumentally stupid.

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This; it also makes a bit of sense.

From a RP aspect, let's face it: they don't have enough brains to do anything they aren't ordered to. That's why they don't behave that way when there's another Vahz mob type (Morti, Reaper, Eidolon) around.

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Posted

They've always been like that. In fact I remember waaaay back in 2004 when I started playing, I was on a team with my two friends, and they were like, "wait, wait, just stand right here, down the hall, this is hilarious."

There was a mob of zombies standing *facing the other way* from us and we pretty much crept right up behind them, they never noticed us. Their perception is pretty zombie-like.

Their vomit, however, is horrible...

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Posted

Once you pull them away from the mob and lose interest in you, you can walk right past them. Dumb as bricks. However tick them off as a group, they'll cause you a world of pain between the projectile and melee vomit attacks.

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Posted

They're a rather annoying group to fight for low levels thanks to their toxic damage and suicide bombers, so the dumb AI is just to make them a little easier.

 

Posted

The zombies in the absence of "brain caste" (Reapers, Morificators, and the bosses) do indeed lose a battle of wits with a sack of hammers. This has been the case from go-live as far as I am aware.

Translating Zombie to English:
Hero hits Vahz zombie. Steps around corner out of sight.
Zombie: Graaaah! (Where him go! It like fighting da wind!)

I assume this is to offset their high damage for lower level opponents. Also they are very effective opponents if you tangle with them and don't take out their controllers first.

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Posted

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Also they are very effective opponents if you tangle with them and don't take out their controllers first.

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Confuse the bomber then watch the rest of the zombies with him drop as he explodes. It might take 2 bombers to actually drop the whole group, but you get the idea.

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Posted

I find their intelligence to be in direct proportion to their ability to kill me quickly. The higher their relative level the smarter they get, the more squishy I am the smarter they get.

This was obvious when we ran Posi for the first time at 11th level and got swarmed by a gang of purple zombies who just wouldn't quit. We dropped the TF and went back a few levels later and in the same mission when they were "only" yellow and orange it was a little easier to separate them. By the end of the TF they were back to their usual stupid selves.

I've also noticed that when I have a melee type the even-levels by themselves are pretty dumb. When I have my low level controller, whose immobilize is totally useless, they swarm me. Or maybe it is related to how quickly I kill them.

But that's just my experience. I can almost guarantee that the one time you need to depend on them being stupid they won't be.

 

Posted

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But that's just my experience. I can almost guarantee that the one time you need to depend on them being stupid they won't be.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. An observation on warfare worthy of Clausewitz.

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Posted

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... or maybe the dumb AI came first and their massive damage was put in for balance. Either way, I consider it well-coded Artificial Stupidity. I've shot a zombie who came after me and, halfway there, FORGOT WHAT IT WAS DOING.

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Originally, Vomit was untyped (There was no toxic damage type originally).

Then everything that was seen as "toxic" was typed to fire, to give players resistance (note the attacks themselves were not "Fire Attack", so fire defense didn't help).

Then they got around to coding the Toxic Damage type and things are as they are now.

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Posted

Immobilizes aren't useless. Just need to either stack them or have them proc their overpower.

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Posted

It is when you are only 3rd or 4th level with a single hold and a single immobilize and neither one recharges nearly fast enough for the five zombies that inexplicably decided to be smart and hunt you down - yay, even unto the ends of the earth to smite you for your temerity.

 

Posted

So, how does the zombie AI work from a game mechanic perspective? Do the Reapers, Mortificaters, etc have some sort of AoE power that boost the perception range of the zombies?

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Are they really just supposed to stand around and do nothing after you aggro them? Sometimes they lumber toward me and make a single attack... and then just stop.


[/ QUOTE ]
In real life, if you aggro me, I probably don't know how to respond and do nothing. So, this makes me as stupid as the zombies, I guess.

 

Posted

Vahz are tough in numbers but yeah, the zombies really are dumb as stumps. If you catch a bunch of them facing away from you and you use single-target attacks you can thin them down a lot before the rest will notice.

I always thought this was because they're resistant to Immobs and that makes them HELL for lowbie Controllers.

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Posted

Vahzilok Zombie AI from my own testing seems to be:
-If a human is in the spawn and alive, have normal aggro properties
-If a human is in the spawn and dead, lose aggro and go to no-human aggro
-If a human is not in the spawn, have very low aggro, approximately 5 feet?
-If a zombie is within this aggro range of one being attacked, will also attack
-Zombies move so slowly they lose aggro after a short DISTANCE although not time precisely

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Posted

<QR>
Good list. One I've noticed is if the human is in the spawn and dead, and 'flee' code kicks in, the zombie will go to next nearest spawn with a human in it and stay there.

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Posted

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Do the Reapers, Mortificaters, etc have some sort of AoE power that boost the perception range of the zombies?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they have normal perception, but they'll alert the mobs around them if they're attacked, just like any other enemy. The alert may be enough to bring the zombie horde down upon you, but if you can pick off one of the "brain trust" and run, the zombies will eventually forget what happened and return to their meditations.

 

Posted

Considering the strength of Zombies, and their Vomit (which in the early days of the game was unresistable) this is probably working as intended. Taking on Vahzilok the wrong way can and will get you killed. There are still some people who dislike starting as the Science Origin because they can be so deadly in the early levels.

I find them fun, personally. I particularly like Confusing an Embalmed Cadaver in the middle of his friends. With luck he will take out the Reapers.