[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Without knowing what happened in between, I can't say for certain, but if the story is as presented the GM should frankly be fired.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the players who freaked out and had a protest deserve a 72hour time out, and the person who posted this thread deserves a temp forum ban, so what's your point?
Players who have a problem with GM action need to take it up with the GM, their superior, or a Community Rep, not freak out and cause disruptions that do more harm to the game and community than good.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which was what I suggested (go over the GM's head). As for why the GM should be fired, because they're going out of line to harass a customer. The thread will likely get deleted and the protest hurts nothing and quite honestly was likely ignored by pretty much everyone not participating (much like most of the costume contests I see when running around).
[ QUOTE ]
TonyV isn't out of line in expecting that people act like adults.
[/ QUOTE ]
Expecting people to act like adults isn't out of line, but his original post (I started mine before he made his second) essentially amounted to "well, the EULA says they can do whatever they want whenever they want and if you don't like it, leave".
While it may be true, that doesn't mean that if they're going to start doing anything they want whenever they want - such as harassing someone about deleting a character that has already been genericed, and then deleting it themselves - they deserve anyone's business or support.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Expecting people to act like adults isn't out of line, but his original post (I started mine before he made his second) essentially amounted to "well, the EULA says they can do whatever they want whenever they want and if you don't like it, leave".
[/ QUOTE ]
No, my point was that the EULA says they can do whatever they want, and if you don't like how it is enforced, pretty much your only recourse is to leave.
Obviously, you do have avenues for appeal. Getting friends together and protesting in Atlas Park and posting threads here are not acceptable ones and have exactly zero chance of working (and quite a significant possibility of causing even more harm). But when all is said and done, if you don't like the final decision of NCsoft, that's pretty much it.
Personally, I think it's enforced just fine. Maybe I'd have done a few things a little differently, but I've never been particularly mad about anything having to do with it. I've never gotten characters nuked, and those who have, I've usually thought, "Yeah, I can see that happening."
People have to understand that there's no such thing as "not infringing enough." Just because a trademark lawsuit might not be won over it does not imply that it's not against the EULA. They're two different beasts. I just get really, really tired of people saying, "It's a parody/homage," "They can't sue over that," and so on. It doesn't matter Again, there's no such thing as "not infringing enough."
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
To everyone that's in support of the player over the GM/Staff:
As what was previously stated, you are getting the story from a disgrunteled player and his friends. You didn't get any comment, nor will you, from a GM on this matter because it's not THEIR form to air grievances in public.
A GM will not ask you to delete your character. They can only suggest that you do not remake the previously genericed costume or else it can lead to an "escalation" in the matter with Customer Services in which constant infractions can lead to a suspension for defying a GM's ruling. That is if CS sees in the favor of the GM.
As to what the Developers/GM's/CS/NCsoft as a whole should do and shouldn't do: it doesn't matter to us. Why? Because we don't make the rules. We "rent" space within THEIR virtual world that THEY provide to those that agree to follow THEIR rules.
If they want to generic an alt for having a green clover because it reminds them that Lucky Charms cereal also has green clovers, they can and the only thing that you can do about it is:
a. Escalate the case with customer services
b. leave the game if they don't see it your way and if you have no other choice than to worry about a costume
c. complain on the forums and wait for the thread to be deleted and yourself get reprimanded by a Moderator, which serves no purpose other than to draw attention to your ignorance that the game doesn't revolve around you or what you "feel" should be done if things don't go your way.
Did I leave anything out?
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
[ QUOTE ]
If they want to generic an alt for having a green clover because it reminds them that Lucky Charms cereal also has green clovers, they can and the only thing that you can do about it is:
a. Escalate the case with customer services
b. leave the game if they don't see it your way and if you have no other choice than to worry about a costume
c. complain on the forums and wait for the thread to be deleted and yourself get reprimanded by a Moderator, which serves no purpose other than to draw attention to your ignorance that the game doesn't revolve around you or what you "feel" should be done if things don't go your way.
Did I leave anything out?
[/ QUOTE ]
D: Post a warning on the forums about the dangers of using a green clover so others won't make that same mistake.
[ QUOTE ]
To everyone that's in support of the player over the GM/Staff:
As what was previously stated, you are getting the story from a disgrunteled player and his friends. You didn't get any comment, nor will you, from a GM on this matter because it's not THEIR form to air grievances in public.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's why I included a lot of "if" statements in my posts. 
But IF everything happened as described, the GM was clearly in the wrong (as well as the player for having the trademark violation). It should have stopped with the genericing and there was no need for further action beyond "I feel like deleting someone's character for no good reason".
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
I find this really ironic.
DC sued Fawcet Comics because they said that Captain Marvel was a rip-off of Superman. I can't remember if Fawcett lost this case, but I know that they were pretty much shutdown by paper-rationing that appeared to be directed about them from what ever was or thought to be their politcal views.
Later on DC bought the rights for Captain Marvel. When they put out a Captain Marvel comic, Marvel sued DC because "marvel" was part the characters name on the title of the book. For a while, Captain Marvel was running around as Shazam.
Then Marvel put out Captain Marvel. So you can figure what happened to end up up with the name of Captain Mar'vel.
Marvel Comics sued NCSoft over Marvel look-alike characters in the game. There aren't supposed to be Marvel or Marvel-like characters in this game.
You can bet when DCUO drops (if not before), there is going to be an increase in characters/players getting /petitioned for DC-like characters. There really aren't supposed to be DC or DC-like characters in this game either.
Anyone that has been through the generic-izing of all the Hulks, Captain Americas, Ironmans (Ironmen?), etc. should know that this happens - and it should come as no shock that it does.
I agree with the other posters that something does seem fishy about some of the statements.
[ QUOTE ]
AFTER that happened, now the GMs are demanding that the toon be deleted outright OR the player's 5 tear running account will be banned.
[/ QUOTE ]
This does not ring true at all.
The GM's don't need permission to delete a character or an account.
I would more suspect that the player was warned that if they kept changing their character costume back to the the "banned" costume that their character would be deleted or the account banned.
But this is speculation.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the character was deleted by a GM after being genericed and you want them back (for badges, level 50 of those powersets, whatever) then go over their head. They had already resolved the copyright issue by genericing your character, and were out of line deleting it unless you went through the trouble of duplicating the costume and bio that they just erased.
And to people like TonyV, just because they have the right to do anything to your character per the EULA doesn't mean that they should, and if the character was still generic hero xxxx when deleted the GM doesn't deserve any support whatsoever for completely overreacting.
Without knowing what happened in between, I can't say for certain, but if the story is as presented the GM should frankly be fired.
[/ QUOTE ]
The OP doesn't say that the character in question was deleted by a GM. The story is that a GM is demanding that the player delete the character, which is ridiculous for two reasons: 1) that doesn't happen and 2)if the GM felt the character *did* need deleted they would just do it themselves and not "demand" that the player does.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm referring to this part here:[ QUOTE ]
As it is the character was erased last night after I went offline.
[/ QUOTE ]
Highlighted the important part.
Yes, it's not in the OP, but it's from the person who says they owned the character - and the one that my reply was directed to.
That shouldn't have happened.
[/ QUOTE ]
Last I knew you can't delete a character when you're online so the wording is ambiguous at best. Personally, I don't think a GM did it.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
The Alt oholic
[ QUOTE ]
This does not ring true at all.
The GM's don't need permission to delete a character or an account.
I would more suspect that the player was warned that if they kept changing their character costume back to the the "banned" costume that their character would be deleted or the account banned.
But this is speculation.
[/ QUOTE ]
This and
Lemur Lad
[ QUOTE ]
Last I knew you can't delete a character when you're online so the wording is ambiguous at best. Personally, I don't think a GM did it.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
Learn to follow the rules and this wouldn't happen. As for the support? People love to follow even if they have no clue why they are following....
Frickin drama queens........
[ QUOTE ]
This is precisely why Congress enacted a DMCA safe harbor and takedown-putback process. The safe harbor protects Internet service providers (such as NCSoft), and the takedown-putback process protects Internet service users (such as City of Heroes players) from bogus copyright claims.
And really, what could be more bogus than copyright claims spammed by third parties (i.e. griefers) until the petition lottery serves up a quick-to-generic GM? No due process involved at any point, either; nobody who knows a damn thing about copyright law ever puts a finger on a button.
This will not be the last time NCSoft's decision not to use the DMCA safe harbor will bite either them or us in the you-know-what.
[/ QUOTE ] Marvel and Cryptic/NCSoft settled a lawsuite, and we don't know what the terms are. So the DMCA could be meaningless(and I bet it is) for cases like these.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doing a Google search for Nexus Argos came up with full bio page with photo.
https://www.virtueverse.com/index.ph...;printable=yes
The character is almost an exact clone of Captain Mar'vell, even the bio. The kicker? at the bottom of the page it reads "Character influenced by Captain Mar-vell from Marvel Comics "
[/ QUOTE ]
There's no resemblance there! 
[/ QUOTE ]
The original costume looks pretty generic as is. I don't see where it stands out any from countless other Silver-Age style 3 color tights/cowl/cape/boots costumes.
Had I seen that guy running around Paragon, I would not have given it a second thought and definitely would not have immediately thought Captain Marvel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong Captain Marvel
Actually, I thought what happened was between DC suing and then aquiring/publishing Capt. Marvel (the original), Marvel put out their own, thus the DC's Capt's comic being "Shazam".
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
Nexus Ar'gos, a 5 yer old character with a 5 year old costume, the GMs are demanding that the toon be deleted outright OR the player's 5 tear running account will be banned.
[/ QUOTE ]
Snipped and bolded for emphasis!
What everyone in this thread is missing is that the character in question is FIVE YEARS OLD! I mean come on! Five years! That's 2004! Five years!
You can't generic characters that are five years old, they're FIVE YEARS OLD. It's obvious. I mean come on. Five years! Count them: | | | | | <---Five. How could they generic a character that was made five years ago, on a five year old account no less? Five years.
I mean, jeez. Five YEARS! What part of five years do you people not understand...your logic and reason are irrelevant in the face of this five year old character/account.
FIVE YEARS!
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not...in case you aren't, and are being serious, the age of the character and costume in question does not matter.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not...in case you aren't, and are being serious, the age of the character and costume in question does not matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector. It's far too over the top for them to actually believe it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not...in case you aren't, and are being serious, the age of the character and costume in question does not matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector. It's far too over the top for them to actually believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
*Breaks out his Tricorder and checks Aggelakis's sarcasm detector
"It's dead, Jim"
Have you read some posts in this thread (and many other rant threads), sweetie? There are people who are more over the top than that and they are 100% serious.
Not to mention I have seen the age of characters/costumes being used as an argument against generic.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not...in case you aren't, and are being serious, the age of the character and costume in question does not matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector. It's far too over the top for them to actually believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've met some people who believe crazier things...
The end of one story always marks the beginning of another...
im 100 % serious,
and even though its not in my habits, i gave in a dude ingame 2 weeks ago, with a name like " Babtists destroyer"
(i made this up not to speak out the real name of teh dude, but its kinda Eulawise similar)
I Saw Him Yesterday... ingame.
With the same name.
so gimme a break with rules, if they only apply to some.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not...in case you aren't, and are being serious, the age of the character and costume in question does not matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector. It's far too over the top for them to actually believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've met some people who believe crazier things...
[/ QUOTE ]
They ramble more, and tend to spell worse. The fact that it stuck to one point all the way through should've been a dead giveaway.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
(QR)
I have a hard time being outraged about this. Mostly because I feel like ~30% of what I'm reading is just [broadsword].
I could blather on and on and on about why I think that, but really, what's the point. Woo hoo another furious forum post. Can I get my Jaded badge now?
Something about this style of indignant outrage really gums my goat.
[ QUOTE ]
Proly just be an excuse to ban both of us and dlete this post however
[/ QUOTE ] -- And that makes it sound like you WANT to be deleted and banned and suchlike. More ammo for the hate cannons!
Chill out. Everyone else, too.
Whether the character was a Captain Marvel Lookalike, or a Captain Mar'vell Lookalike, apparently doesn't matter, because the character was generic'ed. But even I know that a player cannot delete a character they made when that player is off-line!
Try my 3 MArcs: I.D.#67166:Protect the Artifacts!! I.D.#97724:Level-Up Time. I.D.#243803:Witch War! Salem vs. Croatoa!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not...in case you aren't, and are being serious, the age of the character and costume in question does not matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to check the batteries in your sarcasm detector. It's far too over the top for them to actually believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that burned out my sarcasm detector...
Anywho. I have a character that is pretty much a ripoff of a relatively popular computer game from the 90s put out by Toys for Bob. You can see him over there on the left under my name. Had him for very close to 4 years now, and won't be surprised if he's Generic'd tomorrow.
Um...did I have a point? Hmm... 
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
[ QUOTE ]
im 100 % serious,
and even though its not in my habits, i gave in a dude ingame 2 weeks ago, with a name like " Babtists destroyer"
(i made this up not to speak out the real name of teh dude, but its kinda Eulawise similar)
I Saw Him Yesterday... ingame.
With the same name.
so gimme a break with rules, if they only apply to some.
[/ QUOTE ]
The rules apply to all, but unless they have a truly remarkable AI specifically set to search out rule breakers, and all the possible aural permutations of possible actionable names, including colloquialisms such as leet-speak; they will never be able to 'find' these rule breakers. Yes; we are the police if we chose to be. If not; then let it slide, but realize when YOU let it slide, you have no right to kvetch here on the Boards about it.
What I'm saying is that somehow either the GM's directly notice a candidate for genericing or they are apprised of same. Either way, it is a time consuming job, and only one part of a multifaceted job keeping the game CS running smoothly from the inside. And seeing the number of uncreative dorks in the game (ie: Wulfereen, Capt Marbell, etc.); is it any wonder that Bugs and Glitches, and other petitions get backlogged? I'm not surprised at all, and tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the GMs. Yeah, I'm a fanboi; an adult who realizes that dealing with the public USUALLY isnt worth ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, and I appreciate those who chose to 'do the heavy lifting for me' for monetary remuneration.
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the character was deleted by a GM after being genericed and you want them back (for badges, level 50 of those powersets, whatever) then go over their head. They had already resolved the copyright issue by genericing your character, and were out of line deleting it unless you went through the trouble of duplicating the costume and bio that they just erased.
And to people like TonyV, just because they have the right to do anything to your character per the EULA doesn't mean that they should, and if the character was still generic hero xxxx when deleted the GM doesn't deserve any support whatsoever for completely overreacting.
Without knowing what happened in between, I can't say for certain, but if the story is as presented the GM should frankly be fired.
[/ QUOTE ]
The OP doesn't say that the character in question was deleted by a GM. The story is that a GM is demanding that the player delete the character, which is ridiculous for two reasons: 1) that doesn't happen and 2)if the GM felt the character *did* need deleted they would just do it themselves and not "demand" that the player does.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm referring to this part here:[ QUOTE ]
As it is the character was erased last night after I went offline.
[/ QUOTE ]
Highlighted the important part.
Yes, it's not in the OP, but it's from the person who says they owned the character - and the one that my reply was directed to.
That shouldn't have happened.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I missed that post. Yeah, that definitely shouldn't have happened. Unless there's just more to the story than we're being told, and even then it probably shouldn't have happened.