Frustrated at the terrible skill level of players.
By
Acyl,
Posted on: 2009-05-20 19:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That problem pre-dates AE teams.
Not sure why everyone is suddenly under the impression that farming is new and only existed since the implementation of player mission. Get real, guys/gals.
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It's a question, I think, less of it having existed rather the fact that the sheer numbers of instances of this problem have in fact skyrocketed since the MA. It's the population explosion of clueless unskilled high level players that people are discussing now. No one is claiming they never existed prior. They just weren't epidemic before.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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That problem pre-dates AE teams.
Not sure why everyone is suddenly under the impression that farming is new and only existed since the implementation of player mission. Get real, guys/gals.
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It's really a matter of PLing instead of farming; the first may be part of the second but not necessarily.
Note that I'm not against PLing in general, but you should at least make the effort to figure things out if you're going to do it.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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That problem pre-dates AE teams.
Not sure why everyone is suddenly under the impression that farming is new and only existed since the implementation of player mission. Get real, guys/gals.
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It's a question, I think, less of it having existed rather the fact that the sheer numbers of instances of this problem have in fact skyrocketed since the MA. It's the population explosion of clueless unskilled high level players that people are discussing now. No one is claiming they never existed prior. They just weren't epidemic before.
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*cough*
Uh... okay.
Can't say that I've noticed it much more than normal. Idiots will be idiots...
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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To be fair, these questions have been asked often by, oh, level ones and twos and occasionally a LITTLE higher... on up into the teens, even. No big deal, new players, yeah? Welcome, have fun, glad you're here playing our favorite game.
But coming from 50's, it's, well... comedy gold, is what it is.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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Since MA I've encountered veterans with level 50'
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They've somehow discovered the Growth powerset???? 
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Range Enhancements ftw!
Players' Choice Awards: Best Dual-Origin Level Range Arc!
It's a new era, the era of the Mission Architect. Can you save the Universe from...
The Invasion of the Bikini-clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space? - Arc ID 61013
Snippet:
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Used to be that if someone was a level 50, you could count on a certain level of skill and teamwork, because they had worked hard through all the zones, and knew what to do.
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At what point, exactly, was that the case?
Pretty much my entire COH career, was that case. I could depend on looking at a 50 and seeing a player who actually had played the game. In times past the exceptions to that were extremely rare.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
Was never the case since I've been playing this or any other game.
It's easy to make it to max level and not have a clue how to play.
Join team/party, earn exp, remain clueless at the 'endgame'. Stupid people don't suddenly stop being stupid just because they hit 50 nor do young players suddenly become child prodigies just because they maxed out a character.
This game isn't exactly rocket science. There's nothing hard to figure out. Anyone who can't figure it out on their own won't figure it out at all. Doesn't matter if or when they hit 50. That number doesn't mean jack.
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This game isn't exactly rocket science. There's nothing hard to figure out. Anyone who can't figure it out on their own won't figure it out at all. Doesn't matter if or when they hit 50. That number doesn't mean jack.
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That's an easy position to hold as a veteran of the game. Right now, I could probably pick up an AT I've never played before, levelled to 50 already, and still figure out what to do with it within a day. However, I also know almost everything there is to know about this game and can cite precise numbers on most powers off memory, as well as explain the intricacies of obscure in-game mechanics.
This isn't as easy a position to take if you're a newbie, however. For me, it took over a year before I even started to grasp the basic concepts of the game, and I've respecced my old characters many times over because of the stupid stuff I'd done with their builds. And it took me until recently - that's FIVE YEARS - until I figured out the very simple concept that what costs more is not the power with the highest cost, but rather the power with the highest CYCLE cost, meaning the cheapest of powers often end up being more expensive than the most expensive powers. And that's one of the simpler, more obvious things.
I don't know, maybe some of you are geniuses who can figure out the game on your own instantly, but my experience shows me that this is FAR from a simple, obvious game.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Was never the case since I've been playing this or any other game.
It's easy to make it to max level and not have a clue how to play.
Join team/party, earn exp, remain clueless at the 'endgame'. Stupid people don't suddenly stop being stupid just because they hit 50 nor do young players suddenly become child prodigies just because they maxed out a character.
This game isn't exactly rocket science. There's nothing hard to figure out. Anyone who can't figure it out on their own won't figure it out at all. Doesn't matter if or when they hit 50. That number doesn't mean jack.
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And I can tell you... Vet Status doesn't mean much either. Excepting maybe those with the 60 Month Vet, if you have been here since day one, than I would hope you know what you are doing by now.
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This game isn't exactly rocket science. There's nothing hard to figure out. Anyone who can't figure it out on their own won't figure it out at all. Doesn't matter if or when they hit 50. That number doesn't mean jack.
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That's an easy position to hold as a veteran of the game. Right now, I could probably pick up an AT I've never played before, levelled to 50 already, and still figure out what to do with it within a day. However, I also know almost everything there is to know about this game and can cite precise numbers on most powers off memory, as well as explain the intricacies of obscure in-game mechanics.
This isn't as easy a position to take if you're a newbie, however. For me, it took over a year before I even started to grasp the basic concepts of the game, and I've respecced my old characters many times over because of the stupid stuff I'd done with their builds. And it took me until recently - that's FIVE YEARS - until I figured out the very simple concept that what costs more is not the power with the highest cost, but rather the power with the highest CYCLE cost, meaning the cheapest of powers often end up being more expensive than the most expensive powers. And that's one of the simpler, more obvious things.
I don't know, maybe some of you are geniuses who can figure out the game on your own instantly, but my experience shows me that this is FAR from a simple, obvious game.
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I think I will take the middle ground: this game is neither ridiculously easy and completely intuitive nor is it so hard you may need to have a degree in Rocket Science.
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That's an easy position to hold as a veteran of the game. Right now, I could probably pick up an AT I've never played before, levelled to 50 already, and still figure out what to do with it within a day. However, I also know almost everything there is to know about this game and can cite precise numbers on most powers off memory, as well as explain the intricacies of obscure in-game mechanics.
This isn't as easy a position to take if you're a newbie, however. For me, it took over a year before I even started to grasp the basic concepts of the game, and I've respecced my old characters many times over because of the stupid stuff I'd done with their builds. And it took me until recently - that's FIVE YEARS - until I figured out the very simple concept that what costs more is not the power with the highest cost, but rather the power with the highest CYCLE cost, meaning the cheapest of powers often end up being more expensive than the most expensive powers. And that's one of the simpler, more obvious things.
I don't know, maybe some of you are geniuses who can figure out the game on your own instantly, but my experience shows me that this is FAR from a simple, obvious game.
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There are some small mechanics to the game I've had to ask about. I didn't find it a difficult game to learn. MMs are supposed to be one of the most difficult classes to play as far as learning the game mechanics and my mains both on the EU trial in '08 and my US sub are both MM's. The tutorial spells out most of the primary mechanics. I'm not a big fan of reading guides and being told how I'm supposed to play a game so I didn't really want to explore the guides much and get locked into ideas of how other people think of things. The one thing that changed from the trial i played and now was the bodyguarding. Luckily there were a few players who saw some of my posts and explained that little detail.
I'm not attempting to bash you for anything nor agree with any snide comments about how people should know how to play the game; I am just making an observation from my own experience that I didn't find it a difficult game to pick up.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
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I'm not attempting to bash you for anything nor agree with any snide comments about how people should know how to play the game; I am just making an observation from my own experience that I didn't find it a difficult game to pick up.
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I don't think this is a difficult game to pick up, but it is a difficult game to master - if that makes sense? I had to explain some stuff about IO set bonuses to a friend recently, and he's been playing for a while.
On the other hand, I've been playing for over four years, and he gave me a lecture about Confuse mechanics - I was totally wrong and he corrected me. Very humbling experience.
@Acyl
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Blue: Realpolitik, Leading Lady, Glass Lass, Superball, Alec Kazam
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I don't think this is a difficult game to pick up, but it is a difficult game to master - if that makes sense? I had to explain some stuff about IO set bonuses to a friend recently, and he's been playing for a while.
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That I have to agree with. It's fairly easy to pick a character up learn to play it at least relatively competently in a short amount of time, though I still think handing a brand new player a combat level 50, character level 1 character would be a disaster. But the thing is that most of the veteran players would never settle for "relatively competent." They expect people will be good at fighting deep purples with optimised builds, know their place, uphold their roles and instinctively assume what they're supposed to do. I've seen more than a few instances of people being chastised for not knowing how to speed-run an ITF, for instance, and that's before we even get into the "offender vs. healer" debates. Hell, I think I have reasonably competent builds who can handle most anything solo on Tenacious and I've been on the receiving end of this because I don't have Stamina, need to rest and don't measure up to the other optimised 50s.
This is not a hard game to pick up, but just picking it up and being reasonably competent has never seemed like enough, judging by other people's demanding standards.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm not attempting to bash you for anything nor agree with any snide comments about how people should know how to play the game; I am just making an observation from my own experience that I didn't find it a difficult game to pick up.
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I don't think this is a difficult game to pick up, but it is a difficult game to master - if that makes sense? I had to explain some stuff about IO set bonuses to a friend recently, and he's been playing for a while.
On the other hand, I've been playing for over four years, and he gave me a lecture about Confuse mechanics - I was totally wrong and he corrected me. Very humbling experience.
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I haven't even made that dive yet. I probably won't even get basic IO's til 50, then once I have those in place just grind INF to find the sets I want. I was looking at the Merit Rewards and found some potential sets that might work. One involved henchment implicitly, giving them bonuses once the set was completed. I haven't really decided on what I 'need' since I seem to be doing fine as I am.
I do know what you mean about the differences between basic knowledge and advanced knowledge of gameplay. I've never been a number cruncher or a min-maxer. I don't even know how ppl extrapolate the data in their heads they way they do. I'm a trial and error kind of guy. I take a skill, see how it performs, through use I evaluate what works best for it:defense vs end reduction, damage vs accuracy or range etc... Another way I evaluate my progress is how difficult things are. I hear of people doing strike forces on challenge 5 and completing EBs at that level. I can play normally on challenge 3. I haven't gone past challenge 4 yet, but even on strike forces I have to go back to challenge 1 because I find the SF bosses are too much to handle solo beyond that. Maybe its their sets or maybe theyve jumped into io's before I have. I just know from my experience I can't achieve that level of difficulty successfully.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
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I don't think this is a difficult game to pick up, but it is a difficult game to master - if that makes sense? I had to explain some stuff about IO set bonuses to a friend recently, and he's been playing for a while.
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That I have to agree with. It's fairly easy to pick a character up learn to play it at least relatively competently in a short amount of time, though I still think handing a brand new player a combat level 50, character level 1 character would be a disaster. But the thing is that most of the veteran players would never settle for "relatively competent." They expect people will be good at fighting deep purples with optimised builds, know their place, uphold their roles and instinctively assume what they're supposed to do. I've seen more than a few instances of people being chastised for not knowing how to speed-run an ITF, for instance, and that's before we even get into the "offender vs. healer" debates. Hell, I think I have reasonably competent builds who can handle most anything solo on Tenacious and I've been on the receiving end of this because I don't have Stamina, need to rest and don't measure up to the other optimised 50s.
This is not a hard game to pick up, but just picking it up and being reasonably competent has never seemed like enough, judging by other people's demanding standards.
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This is exactly what I'm referring to in my reply just before you finished yours. I don't know how you people do that. It baffles me how you can complete purples solo on that difficulty.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
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I'm a trial and error kind of guy. I take a skill, see how it performs, through use I evaluate what works best for it:defense vs end reduction, damage vs accuracy or range etc... Another way I evaluate my progress is how difficult things are.
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That's the big thing here. trial and error is how most people play and learn, but the thing with trial and error is you need TRIAL for it to work. I've seen it suggested a lot of times that trial shouldn't be needed, because the game is so simple you shouldn't ever have to be in error. To make it clear, this is NOT something said in this thread, but I've heard it before in others. And the thing is, when you hand a newbie a fully-levelled characters, there are a LOT of new powers, mechanics and techniques to figure out, so trial and error takes a good deal of time. How much time differs between people, but for me it takes a day or two to wrap my head around how MY OWN characters that I haven't logged in in a while played. Being handed a brand new character I've never played before would take me significantly longer get accustomed to.
The game isn't very difficult if you keep away from the complicated stuff (and you can play it well without most of them), but it still takes TIME to learn how to play it. More time the more stuff you have to learn at once.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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How much time differs between people, but for me it takes a day or two to wrap my head around how MY OWN characters that I haven't logged in in a while played.
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I thought I was the only one who had this problem. In WoW, anytime I'd shift from my druid to my shaman, it took me a few fights to get the hang of it again because the shaman plays in such a different way than other classes.
The same goes for LOTRO. My two mains were a Hunter and a Warden. Anytime I'd play the Hunter for awhile and go back to the warden, I had to practice to get the combos back in my head. Wardens have a 3 skill combo sequence that make up 20+ moves that do varying degrees of things...
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
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I think it all boils down to how big a deal it is for you if a player doesn't know what they're doing.
I personally don't care. If the team sucks I leave and find another or make my own. If an individual sucks then they're not enough to make the team stink on their own.
Wipes don't bother me since debt is a joke. Not moving at the absolute optimum speed doesn't bother me(if I want speed I'll join an sg only team).
I really just take a carefree approach to the game. I don't see the big deal if a player doesn't know what they're doing regardless of level. That's their problem, not mine. I have the option of leaving the team and I use it quite often. This is also on Victory where the chances of running into the player again are pretty high and it's still not a problem for me.
I'd say stop playing on Freedom is dumb players are really that big an issue. The less populated servers generally have better players.
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Form your own teams, find out who the idiots are, give them one star and add a Note saying "idiot", and then kick them. There, problem solved.
Unless you don't want to be a total jerk, then you might try to start a conversation with them and help them learn how to play the REAL game.
Yeah, good luck with that. 
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this.
I cant believe that im actually agreeing with you...
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
I actually don't play on Freedom. Most of my characters, including all my 50s, are on Victory
I generally don't mind imperfect players (unless they're complete idiots), as most of my characters are designed to take care of themselves and my preferred teams are small - duets and trios. I can typically take care of myself and pick up the slack of anyone underperforming. But most of the time I run into an "imperfect" high level player (often due to having been absent from the game for a couple of years) I spend half my time explaining the intricacies of the various systems.
I enjoy doing that, mind you, and most people seem to appreciate it. I'd say we agree for the most part, just that I wouldn't question the ability of those who cannot grasp the game. It takes some time and some effort.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Form your own teams, find out who the idiots are, give them one star and add a Note saying "idiot", and then kick them. There, problem solved.
Unless you don't want to be a total jerk, then you might try to start a conversation with them and help them learn how to play the REAL game.
Yeah, good luck with that.
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this.
I cant believe that im actually agreeing with you...
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I don't agree at all. I've Mal'd people to teach them how to bodyguard. People need to learn and if all you're willing to do is write them off then maybe its not so much a problem they are having...
I remember in Everquest... I was on a shadowknight, coming from befallen for part of my Epic. I ran across a couple of toons fighting mobs in the middle of the zone and they kept getting mob after mob cuz they would range aggro. They died a couple times, I summoned their corpses and got them dusted off and aked if they wanted me to show them something. I procceeded to teach them how to pull closer to the zone line, away from aggro paths. To you they were probably idiots, but to me they were new, didn't have experience and needed help...
It was one of those days that made me feel exceptionally happy in a game.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
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I don't agree at all. I've Mal'd people to teach them how to bodyguard. People need to learn and if all you're willing to do is write them off then maybe its not so much a problem they are having...
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I guess you missed the second half entirely.
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I don't agree at all. I've Mal'd people to teach them how to bodyguard. People need to learn and if all you're willing to do is write them off then maybe its not so much a problem they are having...
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I guess you missed the second half entirely.
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No I didn't, the poster said it in a sardonic half [censored] way and even ended it with 'good luck with that'. It wasn't meant as anything positive therefore I didn't take it as anything more. The poster has hardly any history of saying anything nice therefore I don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
Crey Radiation Tank (Exalted): 50 Rad/Rad Corr
Servers: Exalted, Triumph, Champion
Alts: 32
Steam Profile
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Let's see:
I've had level 50's ask me the following:
* Where is City Hall? (I was standing under the atlas statue at the time).
* How do I buy a cape? (NCsoft Store, same as everything else you buy)
* Who gives quests? (Well, let's see, you've outleveled nearly everyone, I'd suggest that Selnum guy in PI, or Levantra in the RWZ...)
* How do I get to the Hollows? (*facepalm* You're not serious... oh snap! you are serious!)
* Where are the Lost? (uhhh... if we knew that, they wouldn't be Lost... oh, wait you want to hang out with them cos YOU'RE lost, riiight. Skyway, "Land of the Lost" neighborhood. No really, don't mention it.)
* How do I get into City Hall? (by... opening the door, same as everything else you enter and exit in the game?)
* Where is the mailbox? (it gets delivered electronically, just click the word Email above your chat area. Oh yeah, when that guy advertises a great rate on gold? it's a really lowball figure. Stand firm, you'll profit.)
* NED TEAM PLZ - INVITE NAO? ( uhhh... I'm busy erp'ing with this hawt vampire catgirl FBI agent, shoo! )
The answers have been changed to protect the humor, but, yes, the questions are all direct from game chat, folks.
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Maybe it is a good thing I've been avioding Atlas as much as I have been.
Yesh...
Thank you for the time...