Changes to Signature Characters in GR?
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2009-05-20 24:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I imagine none of the villain patrons will switch, given the way they're tied to the epic pools. I'd actually be surprised if any of the established characters did, since it'd mean going through the existing content and replacing them.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
There has already been a side switching signature character: Malaise.
I know I wasn't the only one who was wondering about this after seeing Manticore and Ghost Widow in the GR trailer. Manticore in particular seems like he could stray off the straight and narrow if pushed.
I'd like it if they did shake up the signature characters a little - even if it did require redoing some of the existing content. At the very least it would give the impression that the world of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles isn't standing still.
I've always gotten the impression that Ghost Widow is unlikely to leave Lord Recluse. Scirocco seems much more likely to switch sides than any of them. He's the most like Manticore, less a loyal drone and more a driven individual whose interests generally coincide with his particular faction, but isn't necessarily tied to the ideologies.
His patron arc gave me that impression.
Ghost Widow cannot change sides unless all of Arachnos does. (See "Oh Wretched Man," Seer Marino, villain level 15-20.) If she tried, she would cease to exist. No, not even if Lord Recluse himself changed sides. That being said, who's to know what side Arachnos is on in Praetorian Earth?
We don't even know yet what "side" means in Praetorian Earth. If you work for the PPD busting criminals in Praetoria, does that make you a hero, or a villain? If you're trying to overthrow Emperor "Tyrant" Cole, are you doing it so you can usurp his place, so you can destroy the world, to free the oppressed, for the lulz, or some combination of the above?
Around about the time that Ouroboros and the Menders made contact with Primal Earth, we got a Paragon Times report from an alternate timeline where Manticore was one of Lord Recluse's lead henchmen, from their Latin American lair -- Guatemala, was it? So it's canonical that there's no way to predict what side Manticore is on in any timeline without going to look. Oh, except that we do know what Praetorian Earth's Manticore looks like: he's Chimera, he's a loyal sidekick to Emperor Cole, and he wears the same suit in blue so that's not Praetorian Earth's version of Manticore in the video.
(All I know for sure is that I can't create a mirror universe version of my main character, because he already has a goatee. I guess I am the mirror universe character?)
I think that if any of them go rogue, Manticore would become a villain. I mean, he seems more rogue-ish than any of the other Freedom Phalanx members.
I also think Scirocco could switch to being a hero. He just seems to have more honor than the other Arachnos Patrons.
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TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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Ghost Widow cannot change sides unless all of Arachnos does. (See "Oh Wretched Man," Seer Marino, villain level 15-20.) If she tried, she would cease to exist. No, not even if Lord Recluse himself changed sides.
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As I recall, Ghost Widow is loyal to Arachnos, not Lord Recluse. If she became convinced that Recluse's megalomania was harming Arachnos, I think she'd turn on him. Of course, it's hard to imagine a "good" Arachnos, considering their Fascist roots...
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There has already been a side switching signature character: Malaise.
[/ QUOTE ]Not to mention Foreshadow, who's could have been the poster boy for side switching.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
The obvious answer to everything is that it was a Nemesis plot for Sister Psyche to possess Nemesis and have him make a plot wherein he was possessed. Oh, in an alternate reality. Not just any reality, but a BIZARRO alternate reality.
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Ghost Widow cannot change sides unless all of Arachnos does. (See "Oh Wretched Man," Seer Marino, villain level 15-20.)
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Actually she could very easily change sides if she were resurrected. Hard to say if she would. This is part of the basis for betraying her in her second arc, Arbiter Daos forces you. All signs point to her WANTING to come back to life.
*Also plugs The Wretch's Gift, Dev's Choice sequel to Oh Wretched Man*
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
Here's a question.. is Ghost Widow tied to just our Arachnos? Or is she tied to all of Arachnos, including other timelines/worlds? Granted, I haven't played the 60's retro arc, so I can't tell for certain... but if Arachnos in the Praetorian world is heroic, would she be tied to it and be heroic?
I would venture a guess, only the Arachnos of this world.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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Ghost Widow cannot change sides unless all of Arachnos does. (See "Oh Wretched Man," Seer Marino, villain level 15-20.) If she tried, she would cease to exist. No, not even if Lord Recluse himself changed sides.
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As I recall, Ghost Widow is loyal to Arachnos, not Lord Recluse. If she became convinced that Recluse's megalomania was harming Arachnos, I think she'd turn on him. Of course, it's hard to imagine a "good" Arachnos, considering their Fascist roots...
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Ghost Widow should just off Recluse and take over Arachnos already. She's a better character anyhow.
Plus, then she would be in control of the very organization that she's bound to for so long as it exists. Which could be seen as being better for Arachnos, since she's bound to the service of the organization, she could never do anything that might cause it's downfall. Unlike Recluse, who *could* just up and one day decide he wanted to wipe it out and start over with a clean slate.
It just makes sense.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Ghost Widow may not be dead in an alternate reality.
If you're one of those who believes Infinite Choices = Infinite Realities, then there's an infinite number of non-undead Belladonna Vertano's out there... (as well as infinite number of DEAD dead ones, and UN-dead ones, and ones that never existed in the first place...)
Oh yeah, and On Topic....
I don't think they would be introducing two new characters (Desdemona/Maelstrom) for the side switching stuff, if they were going to have existing Signature Characters go rogue.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Well see the reason (I believe ) that Manticore and Ghost Widow are in the video is that both of them are borderline characters on the good / evil side of things. Manticore financially backs Wyvern, who , to some people, could be seen as a terrorist group, and Manticore himself, if he felt the situation warranted it, would kill to keep the world safe. Ghost Widow, while being tied to Arachnos, has an honor and sophistication about her that the other Patrons lack. She doesn't kill you after you betray her in her Patron Arc, because her loyalty to the Organization, out weighs her petty need for Personal Venbgeance.
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I think that if any of them go rogue, Manticore would become a villain. I mean, he seems more rogue-ish than any of the other Freedom Phalanx members.
I also think Scirocco could switch to being a hero. He just seems to have more honor than the other Arachnos Patrons.
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Look at Manticore's character, though. His friction with Statesman comes from a drive to do the right thing, even if it doesn't quite coincide with the law. In Praetoria, Tyrant is the law, but not the moral "good" side. Manticore has no real reason to join Tyrant, because they are opposed in both ideology and morality.
By contrast, someone with a more rigid sense of duty to the law, like Valkyrie, or a person with a significant grudge like Mynx, might be more willing to switch sides given enough incentives. Or, perhaps, a nice enough person, such as Numina, might switch sides under the belief that she could help more people that way.
Scirocco can't switch for the same reasons ghost Widow can't switch- the Arbiters are actively ensuring the conditions that would free him from his drive to commit evil aren't met. In this case, Scirocco is cursed such that every act he commits has some evil effect. Poor guy.
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Well see the reason (I believe ) that Manticore and Ghost Widow are in the video is that both of them are borderline characters on the good / evil side of things. Manticore financially backs Wyvern, who , to some people, could be seen as a terrorist group, and Manticore himself, if he felt the situation warranted it, would kill to keep the world safe.
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Hey, anyone who puts an arrow in comic Statesman's chest to save the world is definitely a hero. Comic Statesman is such a [censored].
I don't think Sister Psyche would let Manticore go Rogue unless he's going undercover to impersonate Chimera.
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I don't think Sister Psyche would let Manticore go Rogue unless he's going undercover to impersonate Chimera.
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Oh, yeah! I forgot that they were married! No, Manticore wouldn't do anything to destroy that marriage and becoming a villain WOULD do just that!
to TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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I just had a strange thought about the Going Rogue expansion. Is it possible that some of the NPC Signature Characters could "go rogue" in the new Praetorian world? If so, which ones? What's your opinion?
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Actually there are two NEW side-switching Signature characters. "Maelstrom, a pistol-wielding hero gone rogue, and a Desdemona, a demon-summoning villain who has been redeemed."
Given that, I doubt they will be changing any of the existing signature characters.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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As someone said earlier I doubt that any of the villain patrons will change sides since they would ahve to create a replacement patron to ofer the same anciliary power pool, or else change the way in which villains select their epics.
Task-force offering members of the freedom phalanx would face a similar, if more lower-key, dillema.
All major characters that appear in any significant amoutn fo cotnent would pose a problem since that cotnent would then need to be re-written heavily.
All of these things are made even less likely when we remember that Going Rogue is going to be a (theoretically) optional expansion, and therefor you still ahve to be ble to play in Paraon and the Rogue Isles even if you haven't baught it with no significant change in play experience.
If someone were going to switch sides, Manticore does seem like the most likely option given that he operates independently and much more covertly already, and seems to ahve a more utilitarian ethical framework than the others of the Freedom Phalanx. I don't believe that even he, however, would turn against his Paragon City and Primal Earth to join with the Praetorians. Nor, as someone else pointed out, does it seem likely that he would lightly abandon his blushing bride.
Synapse would be a secondary candidate for recruitment, since he's kindof a bitter jackass. He still seems to be determiend to Make a Difference (tm),a nd so on, and even if he wasn't the more pragmatic reasons above would still hold true, but of all the Freedom Phalanx he is the most likely to join say "screw this, Im out for number one".
Of the villains Ghost-Widow seems like the least likely choice. Although its true that her supernaturally enforced loyalty is to Arachnos as an institution and not to Lord Recluse as its leader (which she explains at the end of one of her arcs in such a manner as to imply that has more respect for the player character than her boss - who has, by this point, been a fairly big jackass to both you and her - and that she might not fight on his side if the two of you ever came into conflict), the fact remains that she can't leave Arachnos to go do her own thing, and she certainly can't join the Praetorians to fight against (which would be necessary if they plan to conquer the world).
Scirocco seems like the most likely turn-coat, given that he's all filled with emo self-loathing about the monster he's become and only serves the forces of evil because he is literally cursed to do so (or at least, believes he is).
Mako and Black Scorpion are essentially oppertunists who server Arachnos because its the best job offer they've gotten. If someone made them a better one there's no compelling reason I know of why they wouldn't take them up on it. Mako perhaps less so than Scorpion, since he has a vested interest in the creepy goings on beneath the coast of Sharkhead Isle.
I do suspect, however, that there will be at leat onr arc for each side where it will APPEAR as if some major character is going rogue for any one of a number of excellent possible reasons, and you will have to investigate.
I just had a strange thought about the Going Rogue expansion. Is it possible that some of the NPC Signature Characters could "go rogue" in the new Praetorian world? If so, which ones? What's your opinion?
Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!