I can't for the life of me think that the devs were naive enough to believe that players wouldn't make farming missions, knowing that pro farming appears to be the general attitude of most players.
Having a jaundiced view of the world as I have that was my first thought when they announced that MA was going live.
There is always a lot to be thankful for, if you take the time to look. For example, I'm sitting here thinking how nice it is that wrinkles don't hurt. ~Author Unknown
::does a raindance to summon ModOcho::
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I think they did know players would make farming missions but were surprised out the just how many did and how efficient they were at the creations. Not to mention the devs needed to see what would be abused so they could make the changes based on the datamining rather then guessing.
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::does a raindance to summon ModOcho::
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Red Rover, Red Rover, send Moderator 08 one over...
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I can't for the life of me think that the devs were naive enough to believe that players wouldn't make farming missions, knowing that pro farming appears to be the general attitude of most players.
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Assumptive argument... One cannot say 'most players' in any case in an attempt to validate a practice without having polled the player base...
... No one asked me... 
Test Subject 42 - lvl 50 Sp/DA Scrapper
Oku No Te - lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper
Borg Master - lvl 24 Bots/traps MM
Pinnacle
Nyghtfyre - lvl 50 DM/SR Scrapper
Champion
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Of course, not all PLers feel that way, any more than 99% of players PL. I suppose I'm just tired of being told that I'm lying and that I really agree with a practice I detest. 'Cause I don't.
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Ahh. Alrighty then. Understood. Yeah, the whole "putting words in my mouth" thing is pretty annoying.
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AFT - Another Farming Thread.
And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.
It's in every MMO.
Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
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Oh, yeah. It's fine. No problem with new players getting the impression that this is what the game is all about. No biggie when they get to 50, can't properly play their characters and find out there's not much to do except more farming to grind your way to those purples. No problem at all when they leave 3 months later for another game because their experience of this game was skewed by PLers. Yeah, that's no big deal at all. Let everybody do whatever they want because they're going to find a way to do it anyway.
I hope you sensed the sarcasm there because I was laying it on pretty thick.
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Hmmm, nice sarcasm I guess. Does an illogical argument still get the positive benefit of being really sarcastic? Isn't it pretty reasonable that the same people who can't stand to play the game till lvl 50 without getting PL are probably also the ones who wouldn't stick around for more than three months if PL'ing didn't exist?
Personally...I don't really get PL'ing. Most of my 50s collect dust so getting to 50 so quickly defeats the purpose. But, if there are others that enjoy playing that way then more power to them. The idea that it somehow has a signfnicant impact on the enjoyment of the game is sort of amusing. I haven't had any enjoyment differences over the last two months...anyone else?
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::does a raindance to summon ModOcho::
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Red Rover, Red Rover, send Moderator 08 one over...
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We who are about to get moderated salute you!
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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AFT - Another Farming Thread.
And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.
It's in every MMO.
Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
[/ QUOTE ]Well said.
QR
I really should make out a longish post in notepad or something that I can copy/paste into here detailing everything about farming, similar to Bill's copy/paste responses.
I really do get tired of feeling compelled to respond to these farming threads and trying to go over all my points all over again from scratch to a group of people who refuse to see certain facts -- preferring to hold their biased and destructive opinions over everything else.
And before someone jumps down my throat, this post isn't directed at anyone in particular, but rather, it's a general post for everyone in these "Farming is 100% A-OK in all forms always!" and "Farming is the most vile of gaming sins and we must wash our hands of this filth before it contaminates the rest of our souls!" groups.
I'm going to stop here before I decide to lay out my usual Farm vs. AntiFarm things. I really do need to make one in notepad. /sigh
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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AFT - Another Farming Thread.
And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.
It's in every MMO.
Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
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Oh, yeah. It's fine. No problem with new players getting the impression that this is what the game is all about. No biggie when they get to 50, can't properly play their characters and find out there's not much to do except more farming to grind your way to those purples. No problem at all when they leave 3 months later for another game because their experience of this game was skewed by PLers. Yeah, that's no big deal at all. Let everybody do whatever they want because they're going to find a way to do it anyway.
I hope you sensed the sarcasm there because I was laying it on pretty thick.
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Hmmm, nice sarcasm I guess. Does an illogical argument still get the positive benefit of being really sarcastic? Isn't it pretty reasonable that the same people who can't stand to play the game till lvl 50 without getting PL are probably also the ones who wouldn't stick around for more than three months if PL'ing didn't exist?
Personally...I don't really get PL'ing. Most of my 50s collect dust so getting to 50 so quickly defeats the purpose. But, if there are others that enjoy playing that way then more power to them. The idea that it somehow has a signfnicant impact on the enjoyment of the game is sort of amusing. I haven't had any enjoyment differences over the last two months...anyone else?
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I guess you really didn't get the point of the sarcasm though. I enjoy the game just as much as I always did. The PLers don't affect me at all because I don't play with them.
My main objection to this is that new players get the impression that this is the way the game is supposed to be played. They get PLed to 50, have no clue how to use their character properly, can't play through a TF or SF entirely because their massive misunderstanding of their characters causes wipe after wipe until the team finally dissolves and they finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind for IO sets and purples any more.
We shouldn't be giving new players the impression that this game is just a costume creation system with a bunch of dings that follow. There's an adventure to be had, but it's not going to be found among the farms, AE or otherwise.
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I guess you really didn't get the point of the sarcasm though. I enjoy the game just as much as I always did. The PLers don't affect me at all because I don't play with them.
My main objection to this is that new players get the impression that this is the way the game is supposed to be played. They get PLed to 50, have no clue how to use their character properly, can't play through a TF or SF entirely because their massive misunderstanding of their characters causes wipe after wipe until the team finally dissolves and they finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind for IO sets and purples any more.
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I think it's you that didnt get his point. Maybe this would help understand the PL PoV; just altering your words a bit:
What if those new players... "finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind THRU BORING LVLS X-Y any more."
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this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
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Um, wait just a minute. What grinding? I mean, come on, man. The missions and story arcs and TFs/SFs throughout the game have great stories. Why is it such a grind to level for people like you? Because you make it that way. If you never read the stories and get into the adventure you will not enjoy the game and you will probably end up just leaving again when your AE farms get nerfed and you can't hurry up the dings all the time any more.
PLing is not what the game is all about and 99% of the players of this game DO NOT do it too, just 99% of the people you happen to see and team with. If you never leave Atlas Park or Peregrine Island you're never going to see teams that don't PL. I suggest you try actually playing through the missions sometime. Take the time to actually read them. Enjoy the story. Stop waiting for the ding of your next level. Otherwise you're just a quitter waiting for a nerf to piss you off.
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These wonderful "stories" you speak of get old after 1-2 times, if that's your idea of compelling content, then you mustalso enjoy watching grass grow, because I, like many people, grew tired of dev's idea of content long ago.
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QR
Personally I have no isues with PL'ing since I do it myself.
However I do have some general rules for PL such as:
If your new to the game get out of my farm team since you lack the proper knowlege of gameplay to warrent it.
If you are a veteran who knows the game inside out then welcome aboard since your mainly doing this to avoid unessesary grinding sincve you are aware of the AT your using.
If you know an AT well enough and are often short on time then hop on in.
Last but not least
If your putting up wit han AT you don't like much to get to an AT you like much more.In my case Since I have several 50's I wanted to make a WS but had to go through the bs of grinding myself retarded to 50 with the closest thing to a MM AT a fire/kin troller.
Needles to say once I got to 50 with some help from PL'ing I was finally able to make my WS and quit the game due to being burnt out yet again for doing the same missions over and over again in a place I feel is overly bland and boring:Hero side.
I for one will be glad to welcome the Rouge system for I am so going to switching my WS over to red side so I can finish what I started with my beloved Kheldian AT and say goodbye to Paragon City you will not be missed.
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What if those new players... "finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind THRU BORING LVLS X-Y any more."
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Well, I think part of the point being made is that the new players being powerleveled to 50 didn't grind through boring levels x-y, at all.
I have no problem with experienced players PLing past the parts that they have played through before and hated. My objection is to taking a new player along for the ride and not letting them decide for themselves that "levels x-y are boring."
It is entirely possible that the levels that you consider boring could be the kind of content the new player was looking for when they came to the game. This is what makes taking a newbie and inducting them into AE farms from the moment they step into Atlas Park a bad idea.
When an experienced player powerlevels, they usually have a goal in mind. The only goal that exists for the new player doing this is the level cap, expecially if they came from another game where the game really kicks in at the level cap. Can you blame them for getting bored or frustrated when they just spent 4-12 hours doing the same mission over and over again to get to 50, just to be told that the major activities to do at 50 is to either farm moar for phat lewt, do the same 5 raids or TF's over and over again, or go back and do the things they missed in Orobouros?
This is how powerleveling "distorts the game" for new players.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Some like it, some don't... nuff said. It's not a game killer or the game would be over by now because it's been going on for years. Period, MOVE ON.
Do not pass go, do not collect 200$
My impression was that the devs look at farming and PLing the way I look at gum chewing in class.
Im not goint to say its allowed. I'll make you spit it out if I see it. But, its a waste of my time to spend all my resources trying to catch you with gum. So, what I don't see I don't know, so dont let me see.
Using the gum chewing analogy, Some of the MA farms were like a kid passing out gum to all his friends, smacking his gum as loudly as possible and then engaging in a bubble blowing contest with the rest of the class as the teacher looks on.
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What if those new players... "finally quit when they decide they don't want to grind THRU BORING LVLS X-Y any more."
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Well, I think part of the point being made is that the new players being powerleveled to 50 didn't grind through boring levels x-y, at all.
I have no problem with experienced players PLing past the parts that they have played through before and hated. My objection is to taking a new player along for the ride and not letting them decide for themselves that "levels x-y are boring."
It is entirely possible that the levels that you consider boring could be the kind of content the new player was looking for when they came to the game. This is what makes taking a newbie and inducting them into AE farms from the moment they step into Atlas Park a bad idea.
When an experienced player powerlevels, they usually have a goal in mind. The only goal that exists for the new player doing this is the level cap, expecially if they came from another game where the game really kicks in at the level cap. Can you blame them for getting bored or frustrated when they just spent 4-12 hours doing the same mission over and over again to get to 50, just to be told that the major activities to do at 50 is to either farm moar for phat lewt, do the same 5 raids or TF's over and over again, or go back and do the things they missed in Orobouros?
This is how powerleveling "distorts the game" for new players.
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Precisely. Thank you, Lightfoot.
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My impression was that the devs look at farming and PLing the way I look at gum chewing in class.
Im not goint to say its allowed. I'll make you spit it out if I see it. But, its a waste of my time to spend all my resources trying to catch you with gum. So, what I don't see I don't know, so dont let me see.
Using the gum chewing analogy, Some of the MA farms were like a kid passing out gum to all his friends, smacking his gum as loudly as possible and then engaging in a bubble blowing contest with the rest of the class as the teacher looks on.
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Excellent analogy bud. 
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Well, I think part of the point being made is that the new players being powerleveled to 50 didn't grind through boring levels x-y, at all.
I have no problem with experienced players PLing past the parts that they have played through before and hated. My objection is to taking a new player along for the ride and not letting them decide for themselves that "levels x-y are boring."
It is entirely possible that the levels that you consider boring could be the kind of content the new player was looking for when they came to the game. This is what makes taking a newbie and inducting them into AE farms from the moment they step into Atlas Park a bad idea.
When an experienced player powerlevels, they usually have a goal in mind. The only goal that exists for the new player doing this is the level cap, expecially if they came from another game where the game really kicks in at the level cap. Can you blame them for getting bored or frustrated when they just spent 4-12 hours doing the same mission over and over again to get to 50, just to be told that the major activities to do at 50 is to either farm moar for phat lewt, do the same 5 raids or TF's over and over again, or go back and do the things they missed in Orobouros?
This is how powerleveling "distorts the game" for new players.
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This. Very well stated, Lightfoot.
My argument 'for' PLing and Farming has to do with the freedom of choice rather than a preference for said activities.
Except humans often get tripped up by a tendency for the path of least resistance. Or, for certain others, the path of bountiful booty. 
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.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
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AFT - Another Farming Thread.
And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.
It's in every MMO.
Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, yeah. It's fine. No problem with new players getting the impression that this is what the game is all about. No biggie when they get to 50, can't properly play their characters and find out there's not much to do except more farming to grind your way to those purples. No problem at all when they leave 3 months later for another game because their experience of this game was skewed by PLers. Yeah, that's no big deal at all. Let everybody do whatever they want because they're going to find a way to do it anyway.
I hope you sensed the sarcasm there because I was laying it on pretty thick.
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Let me revise a bit, then. Farming will occur. There have been new players with 50s in this game in the early issues as well and they couldn't play their characters. There are more now. Agreed Agreed Agreed. It's not good for them. Yes.
Now, the hype is dying off. Some will quit. That's not good either.
But it will happen. It's been happeneing for a while now. Life goes on.
Just as many new players to CoH are not new to MMOs and know what they're doing. Some take the scenic route, some PL.
Is it sad that some will never experience the full game before they quit? Yes, of course. But quite a few I know and speak with will stick around and love the game. Even some who jumped to 50 and found nothing there.
The game is extremely fun.
I like it the way it is right now. So do many others.
QR
You know AE is a huge success if the goal was to spark endless forum debate on the issue of "farming"
Yes,I know it wasn't.Just thought I would post something.Carry on.
I've been called 'Fun Police' 'XP Nazis' and 'Kontent Korps' for trying to point out that powerlevelling isn't the way the game was meant to be played. Don't think that the pro-farming side is any less self-righteous.
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I've been called 'Fun Police' 'XP Nazis' and 'Kontent Korps' for trying to point out that powerlevelling isn't the way the game was meant to be played. Don't think that the pro-farming side is any less self-righteous.
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You forgot "Dev Worshipper"
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Why is it that the pro-PL people always seem to try to make this argument? "Everyone does it" or "All of you have done it at one time or another" or "You people who don't do it are just jealous and wish you could be doing it". Very presumptuous, very arrogant and completely wrong.
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That's not the main argument pro-PL people have. Their main argument is that stop imposing a "self righteous holier than thou" attitude that anti-Farm folks have regarding farming.
If they exploit, so what? They'll get caught. If they get more 50s in their account, so what? They're paying for their way of gaming. The Devs will do what is necessary to limit that, but to think that everyone SHOULD "slow" down as opposed to just zerging everything because slowing down is HOW the game is supposed to be played is stupid.
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I don't think I said it was the main argument for PL and I'm sorry if my post was unclear. I've seen far more rational arguments for PL, mostly to bypass level ranges that an experienced player finds tiresome or to create high-level characters specifically for purposes of PvP.
However, I do see that argument coming from PLers quite a bit and it seems no less self righteous to assume that absolutely everyone secretly agrees with you and is being a hypocrite to disagree. Of course, not all PLers feel that way, any more than 99% of players PL. I suppose I'm just tired of being told that I'm lying and that I really agree with a practice I detest. 'Cause I don't.
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