[ QUOTE ]
A level 1 can hit lvl 18 in 1 run "15 min's". So I'd say that would be ok for someone to do since the 1st 18 - 20 levels are painful.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't be surprised if this gets hit as well. The Devs have very specifically mentioned that the Mission Architect is not to be used for PLing. Going from level 1 to 18 in 15 minutes is definitely within the range of PLing.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Not trying to argue...
Well here's the thing. Even if you used all minion on a AE map you can still PL with it.
What's the difference with someone resetting a regular mission and someone resetting a AE mission? I don't get it, why would the dev's say that when it can be done with any mission, it just doesn't make sense.
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"A coward dies many times before their death, the valiant taste death but once." - William Shakespeare
Learn it... OWN IT!
I believe that the ability to create the farm mission irks the devs quite a bit.
@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787
Yes but it doesn't have to be a farm mission, that's my point. You can reset a regular type AE mission too.
That's how you PL in this game, you can reset any type of mission. Doesnt matter what it is.. so that's my point of what they are saying doesnt make any sense or they would have to apply it to every single mission in the game.
I remember when I made my 1st stalker, I didnt know about PL. All I did was crank the difficulty all the way up fill my tray with purples, stealth to the boss kill him & did that with every paper mission I got.
If I remember correctly I got my stalker 1-50 in about 3 or 4 days killing only bosses and to complete paper missions.
---------------------------------------------------------
"A coward dies many times before their death, the valiant taste death but once." - William Shakespeare
Learn it... OWN IT!
[ QUOTE ]
Yes but it doesn't have to be a farm mission, that's my point. You can reset a regular type AE mission too.
That's how you PL in this game, you can reset any type of mission. Doesnt matter what it is.. so that's my point of what they are saying doesnt make any sense or they would have to apply it to every single mission in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they really don't. The Mission Architect was specifically singled-out by the Devs as not meant to be used for farming or PLing. They can very much so cut rewards for the MA and not touch missions outside of it.
The Devs realize that the normal content can be used for farming and PLing. There's fairly little they can do about that without harming most normal players. However, they can mess with the MA all they want, because 'normal' players can use all of the basic content the same way they always have, and use the MA as supplemental content.
However, the real problem comes in when the MA can be used to get rewards FASTER than outside farming can get them. That is where the problem lies, and where the Devs seem to have been focusing most of their efforts.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I can see the point of that. What Ive been doing with bronze recipe rewards is using tickets for those and crafting and either using what I need or selling the crafted recipes I don't need.
They will have a tuff time trying to find some kind of nerf for AE that won't hurt the players that don't use it for PL.
If they nerf tickets then no one will play AE anymore & it will become a ghost town.
My whole point is even a PL'er can use a regular type AE mission and farm it just like a non AE. The amount of tickets gained per map isnt much so why are they even stressing it???
---------------------------------------------------------
"A coward dies many times before their death, the valiant taste death but once." - William Shakespeare
Learn it... OWN IT!
We're very lucky that the MA has rewards at all, I always thought player-made missions would have no rewards until they got official approval. The MA is specifically set up so the devs can control what rewards are available from it, and they WILL nerf it again if they find players continuing to abuse it.
Powerlevelling is bad for the game. The endgame isn't the big draw here, and new players are expected to learn the game as the level up. AE farming brought a new crop of clueness newbies with level 50s who've never been outside of Atlas, and will quickly become frustrated when experienced players have no patience for their lack of knowledge. Also, farming is boring as hell, and newbies who get the impression that farming is all there is to the game will soon quit.
The Architect is meant for players to be creative with, and to provide additional story-driven content to supplement what the devs made, specifically not a farming or powergaming tool.
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
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"A coward dies many times before their death, the valiant taste death but once." - William Shakespeare
Learn it... OWN IT!
[ QUOTE ]
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
[/ QUOTE ] Many of the people I play with.. DON'T PL. I never have, and likely never will. Personally, I like to experience each character as they level up and see how the new powers fit in and it gives me a better idea where the strong points and weaknesses are so I can plan accordingly for future powers and/or IO sets to fill in the gaps.
Sure, there may be the occasional farm when we find a good mission to get a few extra runs out of, but that's not the same thing as Doorsitting on a lowbie and letting other people do the work for you.
I'd like to point out that I'm not against people PL'ing or farming. I don't care how other people want to play their toons. I'm just stating that it's not for me. It probably never will be. That's my personal choice, and there are many others that share it.
I'd say most of the population will farm something at some point, but saying that 99% PL is just plain false.
[ QUOTE ]
I just came back to the game after a 1 year break, people told me.. you missed it dude, you could have lvl'd a new toon 1-50 in 8 hours!
Well, I have to say I love the new AE. I was tinkering with creating missions, I really enjoy it. Also I tested how fast you can lvl 1-50 after they nerfed it, I ran lvl 54 boss missions and got a new MM 1-50 in 2 days. Not bad.
But... I will not be using AE to powerlevel my character's, I enjoy creating missions to play & have other's play.
AE was a very nice surprise for me coming back after 1 yr. 
A level 1 can hit lvl 18 in 1 run "15 min's". So I'd say that would be ok for someone to do since the 1st 18 - 20 levels are painful.
[/ QUOTE ]
it was more like 4 hours.....
And you can make a legal map on live right now that gets you 1-26 in 28 mins, 26-35 in another 28 mins. So 1-35 in less than an hour.
Leader of the NITES of DARKNESS VG
Join my fan club today!
[ QUOTE ]
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the Devs have simply adopted the mantra of "No matter how impossible to stop, we must never give up and turn a blind eye to Powerleveling. We must continue to work towards eliminating it."
Why would the Devs adopt such a belief to practice? Because if from the start, they did give up, if they turned a blind eye to the PL the likelihood of the servers being shut down before Villains was released would have been far greater.
New players would have joined and found that it was nothing but City of PL and after one or two toons PL'd to 50 they would have become bored and left. Older Players would also have become bored and also quit.
So, now some of us are patiently waiting to see how the Devs will deal with the current MAFE (Mission Architect Farming Environment)
"The one thing that can stop a full team of MasterMinds dead in its tracks... a doorway!" --Frogfather
This threads needs to be locked and the discussion moved to the official farming thread.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
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Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
[/ QUOTE ] Many of the people I play with.. DON'T PL.
[/ QUOTE ]
All of the people I play with don't PL.
I PL! because the pre 35 content is lame.
[ QUOTE ]
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nerf PL? Already been done with most every 'well known' exploit in tha game. And that's where the Devs appear to draw that line. Plus it really depends on your definition of PL. As an adjunct of Power Gaming; no Developer will ever successfully remove Power Leveling from any game which employs 'levels'. It is part and parcel of the Power Gaming paradigm.
As far as limiting areas of Power Gaming such as exponentially faster leveling or garnering of rewards; again, this has already been done, and could be done again. Whether that would be good for MA or the game as a whole remains to be seen. To be consistent though, the Devs will have to nerf or remove major exploitable content whenever it is identified.
There are still AE farms out there that give the 'broken' Rikti Comm style XP out there (apparently), and gathering a good mix of ATs for a highpowered session of gaming will always make the leveling ratio nudge into PL territory, but then it is only a matter of degree at that point.
Where I see the Community's problem with this is twofold:
<ul type="square">[*]Some have found that these 'n00bish' 50's detract from the gaming experience (read: fun) because they have little to no experience or skill playing their toons effectively in a team environment. How could they? They never 'played' as a team member. The Community is correct. At least, until the n00b learns how to play his toon which depends on how much the n00b puts into his PL'd toon. Some will become good teammates; many (if not most) will not.
My POV: the one's who do not get a clue wouldn't have learned or stayed with the game even if they doubled the amount of XP/time it took to get to 50; so the actual effect on the game (and fun) is negligible.
[*]Some will say that their ability to find a non-farm team and 'normal' gameplay is diminished; making the game less enjoyable overall. And that these AE teams should be forced out into the light to team 'like everyone else.'
My POV: this is shortsighted. As I and others have stated: MA is big shiny, but the shine will wear off, and a number will return to 'normal' play. I don't think that all of them will because frankly many people are bored with the older content, and MA delivers a new path which indeed the Devs even advertise as 'a player can go from level 1 to 50 doing only AE missions'.
Patience is the virtue which will be tested for the players with this mindset, but all signs point to the shine wearing off (albeit slowly) as expected.[/list]
A final note that I cannot stress enough to those who wish the Devs to so nerf/gimp MA as to force players out into regular teams: if you think that the Plers and farmers will make teaming easier or teams more available and fun, you are wrong. First: they will not team with you if you are strict in how you wish a team to run. Second: you really don't want to team with them because they will most likely never conform to your idea of normal, fun gameplay.
Now as far as 99% of players PLing? Ridiculous... for the msot part. I don't even think that 50% of the playerbase even PowerGames. They will gladly garner a little extra XP here and there, or even truly PL if they feel stuck in level overly long, but once they get over whatever personal obstacle that normal gameplay has imposed on them they return to normal play readily.
But even the Devs cannot 'force' this upon them. So, don't worry or fret about it.
Farm, or do not. There is no whine.
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nerf PL? Already been done with most every 'well known' exploit in tha game. And that's where the Devs appear to draw that line. Plus it really depends on your definition of PL. As an adjunct of Power Gaming; no Developer will ever successfully remove Power Leveling from any game which employs 'levels'. It is part and parcel of the Power Gaming paradigm.
As far as limiting areas of Power Gaming such as exponentially faster leveling or garnering of rewards; again, this has already been done, and could be done again. Whether that would be good for MA or the game as a whole remains to be seen. To be consistent though, the Devs will have to nerf or remove major exploitable content whenever it is identified.
There are still AE farms out there that give the 'broken' Rikti Comm style XP out there (apparently), and gathering a good mix of ATs for a highpowered session of gaming will always make the leveling ratio nudge into PL territory, but then it is only a matter of degree at that point.
Where I see the Community's problem with this is twofold:
<ul type="square">[*]Some have found that these 'n00bish' 50's detract from the gaming experience (read: fun) because they have little to no experience or skill playing their toons effectively in a team environment. How could they? They never 'played' as a team member. The Community is correct. At least, until the n00b learns how to play his toon which depends on how much the n00b puts into his PL'd toon. Some will become good teammates; many (if not most) will not.
My POV: the one's who do not get a clue wouldn't have learned or stayed with the game even if they doubled the amount of XP/time it took to get to 50; so the actual effect on the game (and fun) is negligible.
[*]Some will say that their ability to find a non-farm team and 'normal' gameplay is diminished; making the game less enjoyable overall. And that these AE teams should be forced out into the light to team 'like everyone else.'
My POV: this is shortsighted. As I and others have stated: MA is big shiny, but the shine will wear off, and a number will return to 'normal' play. I don't think that all of them will because frankly many people are bored with the older content, and MA delivers a new path which indeed the Devs even advertise as 'a player can go from level 1 to 50 doing only AE missions'.
Patience is the virtue which will be tested for the players with this mindset, but all signs point to the shine wearing off (albeit slowly) as expected.[/list]
A final note that I cannot stress enough to those who wish the Devs to so nerf/gimp MA as to force players out into regular teams: if you think that the Plers and farmers will make teaming easier or teams more available and fun, you are wrong. First: they will not team with you if you are strict in how you wish a team to run. Second: you really don't want to team with them because they will most likely never conform to your idea of normal, fun gameplay.
Now as far as 99% of players PLing? Ridiculous... for the msot part. I don't even think that 50% of the playerbase even PowerGames. They will gladly garner a little extra XP here and there, or even truly PL if they feel stuck in level overly long, but once they get over whatever personal obstacle that normal gameplay has imposed on them they return to normal play readily.
But even the Devs cannot 'force' this upon them. So, don't worry or fret about it.
Farm, or do not. There is no whine.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my EXACT sentiment. Well said Ninus.
[ QUOTE ]
this game isnt hard to play lol
People dont wanna waste their life away grinding.
99% of the people who play this game PL & its been like that since I started this game yrs ago.
GL to them trying to nerf PL.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, wait just a minute. What grinding? I mean, come on, man. The missions and story arcs and TFs/SFs throughout the game have great stories. Why is it such a grind to level for people like you? Because you make it that way. If you never read the stories and get into the adventure you will not enjoy the game and you will probably end up just leaving again when your AE farms get nerfed and you can't hurry up the dings all the time any more.
PLing is not what the game is all about and 99% of the players of this game DO NOT do it too, just 99% of the people you happen to see and team with. If you never leave Atlas Park or Peregrine Island you're never going to see teams that don't PL. I suggest you try actually playing through the missions sometime. Take the time to actually read them. Enjoy the story. Stop waiting for the ding of your next level. Otherwise you're just a quitter waiting for a nerf to piss you off.
Why is it that the pro-PL people always seem to try to make this argument? "Everyone does it" or "All of you have done it at one time or another" or "You people who don't do it are just jealous and wish you could be doing it". Very presumptuous, very arrogant and completely wrong.
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AFT - Another Farming Thread.
And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.
It's in every MMO.
Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
[ QUOTE ]
AFT - Another Farming Thread.
And by that I mean - You can't eliminate it in game, you can't stop the threads here.
It's in every MMO.
Let's just keep things as is and admit it's okay. The broadcast spam has stopped. The hype is over. It's fine. Get to 50 in 4 hours. Besides the anti farming stance, there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, yeah. It's fine. No problem with new players getting the impression that this is what the game is all about. No biggie when they get to 50, can't properly play their characters and find out there's not much to do except more farming to grind your way to those purples. No problem at all when they leave 3 months later for another game because their experience of this game was skewed by PLers. Yeah, that's no big deal at all. Let everybody do whatever they want because they're going to find a way to do it anyway.
I hope you sensed the sarcasm there because I was laying it on pretty thick.
Personally I have never gotten the whole if you pl to lvl 50 you wont know how to play your toon idea. It doesnt make sense because I still see lvl 50s who didnt pl their toons and still play just as clueless. Really what it all boils down to is whether or not the player gets exposed to other players who know the set and teach them a thing or two or they find out something by accident. Its got nothing to do with level speed at all. They can just as easily learn something from another player while on a pling team as they could on a regular team.
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Um, wait just a minute. What grinding? I mean, come on, man. The missions and story arcs and TFs/SFs throughout the game have great stories. Why is it such a grind to level for people like you? Because you make it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ever occur to you that he might've tried to? But nonetheless, if he wanted a story, he'd read an actual book or comic book or what not? Maybe he just likes to pwn things? Next thing you'll say, this game isn't for you. Please. He pays his sub. He'll play the way he plays. Period.
[ QUOTE ]
Why is it that the pro-PL people always seem to try to make this argument? "Everyone does it" or "All of you have done it at one time or another" or "You people who don't do it are just jealous and wish you could be doing it". Very presumptuous, very arrogant and completely wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not the main argument pro-PL people have. Their main argument is that stop imposing a "self righteous holier than thou" attitude that anti-Farm folks have regarding farming.
If they exploit, so what? They'll get caught. If they get more 50s in their account, so what? They're paying for their way of gaming. The Devs will do what is necessary to limit that, but to think that everyone SHOULD "slow" down as opposed to just zerging everything because slowing down is HOW the game is supposed to be played is stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
there's nothing to stop it besides gutting the game and making it City of Heroes: Level 10 Forever!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a blatantly false statement. If the devs wanted they could easily put a stop to all farming without gutting the game.
All they need to do is make all missions timed.
NOTE: What I said is NOT a suggestion. I personally hate timed missions. It was put forth only to refute the stupid claim that the game would need to be gutted to stop farming.
I know from your posts here that you are at least a bit of a Power Gamer, Black. So, I think you understand that at least some of the low level content can get a little long-in-the-tooth even for a short term player. Personally, I haven't seen even half the content Heroside even in my long term here. So, I'm not looking at boredom or 'gotta get to 30 NAO!' anytime soon on my lowbie Heroes. I have seen all the content Vill side, but that was on purpose, with one toon, and most of the content on my next 50 redside. Stiill not bored with it after slowleveling a 3rd 50.
Perhaps for some of us, it will never be a problem. But even I have to admit some parts can feel like a grind when your toon either isn't 'built' to be effective against X level enemies that are prolific at whatever level. Most of my toons have some group they are just torture to play against while my main (and most played) toon just chews up the baddies. I'll never stop playing when I'm having that kind of fun eventhough I do grind away badges with him.
Everyone's just got to find their niche, and for some it isn't the stories (eventhough they are generally good). I can't say that TFs/SFs are on my list of ways to level, but to each their own.
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
I just came back to the game after a 1 year break, people told me.. you missed it dude, you could have lvl'd a new toon 1-50 in 8 hours!
Well, I have to say I love the new AE. I was tinkering with creating missions, I really enjoy it. Also I tested how fast you can lvl 1-50 after they nerfed it, I ran lvl 54 boss missions and got a new MM 1-50 in 2 days. Not bad.
But... I will not be using AE to powerlevel my character's, I enjoy creating missions to play & have other's play.
AE was a very nice surprise for me coming back after 1 yr.
A level 1 can hit lvl 18 in 1 run "15 min's". So I'd say that would be ok for someone to do since the 1st 18 - 20 levels are painful.
---------------------------------------------------------
"A coward dies many times before their death, the valiant taste death but once." - William Shakespeare
Learn it... OWN IT!