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I agree with you. What really gets me is that 2 MMOs in the same genre are going to be on the market soon, you would think they would be extra nice to their existing customers and not piss them off with stupid changes like this.
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You'd think so, right? That means this change is probably more necessary than you think.
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I havent been this mad about changes since ED.
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And yet ED turned out to be a benefit to the game in the long run. Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Meanwhile, we have a long standing 'bug' that we cannot fix:
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That says it ALL right there.
I don't even play PET classes and this still disgusts me. I'm through accepting THAT answer for all the things wrong with this game, Castle.
Sorry as hell, but I'm sick of it.
Cal2
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And yet ED turned out to be a benefit to the game in the long run. Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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Opinionative, you have no idea what tha game would ahve done had ED not arrived in the form it did. Its an opinion I share though, I too think ED was best for the game.
However developers are not infaliable seers with powers to identify what is best for the game longevity, after all look what SOE did with SWG. The decimated their subscription base and never recovered, they had to rescind a refund offer because of the amount of people returning the trials of obi-wan. Whats really funny is that before Jack left he stated in an interview that what SOE did with SWG was right for the game, mind boggling..... with all evidence of how to destroy a games player base before him he still thought it was a good idea.
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Meanwhile, we have a long standing 'bug' that we cannot fix:
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That says it ALL right there.
I don't even play PET classes and this still disgusts me. I'm through accepting THAT answer for all the things wrong with this game, Castle.
Sorry as hell, but I'm sick of it.
Cal2
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get a degree and help them, sometimes certain answers is all they can give and that's not their fault.
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Meanwhile, we have a long standing 'bug' that we cannot fix:
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That says it ALL right there.
I don't even play PET classes and this still disgusts me. I'm through accepting THAT answer for all the things wrong with this game, Castle.
Sorry as hell, but I'm sick of it.
Cal2
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get a degree and help them
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Five years and millions of dollars later = I don't think there is any help possible. I've been saying this for the last 3 years, in case you haven't noticed.
bah
Cal2
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Meanwhile, we have a long standing 'bug' that we cannot fix:
[/ QUOTE ]
That says it ALL right there.
I don't even play PET classes and this still disgusts me. I'm through accepting THAT answer for all the things wrong with this game, Castle.
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Are you... actually opining that they shouldn't say they're fixing things because they're bugs?
If so, I'm curious what other option you think they have.
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
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Five years and millions of dollars later = I don't think there is any help possible. I've been saying this for the last 3 years, in case you haven't noticed.
bah
Cal2
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if only everyone could have unlimited resources and time eh?
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I referred to this as the GPN, the Global Pet Nerf myself in one of the locked threads.
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GPN V2. GPN V1 was when the ability to summon multiples of the same pet with sufficient recharge was removed for a lot of pet types. (But not all, apparently)
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Which ones? The only one I can think of that might be there would be Warshades, but their pet requires you kill things first, as well. Which is unique.
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It used to be possible to summon multiple controller pets.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
2 Phantasms, 2 Dark Servants, 9-12 Imps I think...oh how fire control was really crazy
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Opinionative, you have no idea what tha game would ahve done had ED not arrived in the form it did. Its an opinion I share though, I too think ED was best for the game.
However developers are not infaliable seers with powers to identify what is best for the game longevity, after all look what SOE did with SWG.
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Oh, I don't deny any of this. I just think it's funny that Ryu is calling on one of the periods of drama that, while painful at the time, proved to be beneficial, and using that as an analogy for why this change is so awful. It doesn't make for a very strong case.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
What about granting all of the single attack pets an extra attack or two?
Even if it's the same attack. If I remember correctly, the MM ninjas have two instances of throw shuriken.
So why not give LS and VS. a second or third bolt? Give the imps a second brawl? Or for the hiliarity of it, boxing and kick and flurry. XD I'd love to have a kung fu Imp.
Will the end cost or damage be altered on LS?
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Opinionative, you have no idea what tha game would ahve done had ED not arrived in the form it did. Its an opinion I share though, I too think ED was best for the game.
However developers are not infaliable seers with powers to identify what is best for the game longevity, after all look what SOE did with SWG.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I don't deny any of this. I just think it's funny that Ryu is calling on one of the periods of drama that, while painful at the time, proved to be beneficial, and using that as an analogy for why this change is so awful. It doesn't make for a very strong case.
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I too think ED turned out to be the right decision though it is still implemented poorly imo much like DR in pvp they seem to really struggle with the concept of curves rather than hard stops. Under ED if I choose (cause they brag about player customization all the time) to 6 slot for damage it should still provide a noticeable benefit over 3 slotting, 4 and even 5 slotting, but shouldn't be overall as beneficial to a power as mixing (diversifying) my enhancements.
They really struggle with that concept though. And while they talk about curves something that scales to 100 but the curve covers a range of 1 to 3 may as well be a straight line for all intents and purposes.
At any rate, we can't really say if ED was beneficial to the game unless the sub numbers went up a lot. I think they may have actually decreased a bit no or they have remained pretty consistent? I think they have stayed more or less the same, so one could suggest that ED did almost nothing for the game.
We also can't say whether a different group of devs wouldn't have come up with a far better (or worse) idea that made the game grow considerably (or fail).
We can ascertain that the "hero" mmo market is a lot bigger than cox is capturing though unless one believes that the new entrants expect to kill off the competition. I have no idea if cox wants to grow, they may be very complacent (yes I chose that word specifically) with their current subs. I think it is fair to say that if they want to grow they have had no idea how up to this point. MA seems like a great attempt and will hopefully prove successful
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Now, you combine the two things...and suddenly, pet powers which were never meant to have recharge be altered (Lightning Storm is a great example here) are firing off much faster than intended.
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What happens when developers let intent dominate design? "Vision."
In City of Heroes, among all MMOs, too much customizability isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the game is working differently than intended (or envisioned), that's worth looking into, but departures from intent can't be safely assumed to be bad. The fact that this change impacts unpopular sets likes Electric Blast while leaving the standard Fire Control/Kinetics farming build nearly untouched might be an indication of something.
Anyway, fewer slotting options, so my pet slotting is probably going to be necessarily identical to everyone else's from now on. As I pride myself on uniqueness, one chunk of this game (pet builds) is going to be less interesting to me -- time I spend playing my stormy might turn into time I spend playing virtual mayor on a certain classic simulation game instead. At least until 14 goes live and I get myself readdicted to the art of interactive storytelling. 
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We need to keep in mind this is a game, and ultimately, players enjoyment (and continued subscriptions) are the goal.
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Since when does your sub mean more than mine?
With the characters I have, and how I play, I only benefit from this. You, apparently, do not. Maybe we will be able to convince the devs of some pet attack recharge buffs, but just because you do not like it all the results, or at least prefer the current live state, doesn't mean everyone will.
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If you're going to look at it that way, clearly your sub is worth more, this change is already a done deal. Maybe it will ultimately makes more people happy than sad, it doesn't seem that way to me ATM.
The point was, fun is subjective, but subscriptions are objective. Breaking peoples builds must always take some toll on the former...
I actually don't care about the change that much, since only one of my toons is effected -- the method by which it has arrived is bugging me.
--
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2 Phantasms, 2 Dark Servants, 9-12 Imps I think...oh how fire control was really crazy
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My Ill/Rad used to have three phantasms with three decoys, partially overlapping perma-PA, and however many spectral terrors I felt like at the time concurrently.
I think a speedy fire controller could get 15 imps out at once at least for a while.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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People will always react badly to changes with a negative impact on their characters. The method of disclosure makes little difference in that regard. However, for those not particularly impacted by the changes, the presentation of this fix as a positive for pet casters causes some dismay. Water under the bridge, at this point.
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And yet ED turned out to be a benefit to the game in the long run. Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Opinionative, you have no idea what tha game would ahve done had ED not arrived in the form it did. Its an opinion I share though, I too think ED was best for the game.
However developers are not infaliable seers with powers to identify what is best for the game longevity, after all look what SOE did with SWG. The decimated their subscription base and never recovered, they had to rescind a refund offer because of the amount of people returning the trials of obi-wan. Whats really funny is that before Jack left he stated in an interview that what SOE did with SWG was right for the game, mind boggling..... with all evidence of how to destroy a games player base before him he still thought it was a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
The issue with SOE and SWG is, the NGE came out right after the Trials of Obi-Wan, invalidating TOW. That would be like having a superbooster that gave us bonuses for 6-slotting the same kind of SO enhancement (Damage, etc), say 6 Damage getting you a set bonus equal to a single SO Accuracy enhancement, the month or so before ED.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I referred to this as the GPN, the Global Pet Nerf myself in one of the locked threads.
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GPN V2. GPN V1 was when the ability to summon multiples of the same pet with sufficient recharge was removed for a lot of pet types. (But not all, apparently)
[/ QUOTE ]
Which ones? The only one I can think of that might be there would be Warshades, but their pet requires you kill things first, as well. Which is unique.
[/ QUOTE ]
It used to be possible to summon multiple controller pets.
[/ QUOTE ]I know - I wasclose to fluffy when that change happened
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2 Phantasms, 2 Dark Servants, 9-12 Imps I think...oh how fire control was really crazy
[/ QUOTE ]
My Ill/Rad used to have three phantasms with three decoys, partially overlapping perma-PA, and however many spectral terrors I felt like at the time concurrently.
I think a speedy fire controller could get 15 imps out at once at least for a while.
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Well, IIRC, back then Imps were 2-4 imps per cast, so if they could get four casts, and where lucky, 16.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I have issue with the fact that the defender LS is not affected on test currently, possibly an oversight.
I also have a question regarding the purple pet set (soulbound allegiance) which was designed specifically to increase the pet's rate of fire. Now that it no longer does this, will we see a reworking of said said at a minimum... one that makes it worthy of being a purple set?
I take issue in the fact that it was LS, VS, GT that were the targets and MM's are going to pay heavily for such a broad and sweeping change. Could you not put this issue off until you have time to re-think it some? You have in the past thought up ways around issues when given time which you currently didn't think were possible (the new changes to Phase come to mind).
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Heh this change has actually improved my masterminds, so im looking forward to it. No more micromanaging my bruiser. Reports from a friend with ninjas and another with a necro claim that both of their toons are performing better with what you call a nerf.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Castle,
I am worried about my Fire Imps. I checked the Info tab on the power and Imps ONLY have Brawl. If this does affect Fire Imps, do you plan on giving them another power so they benefit from the cycling as this fix is intended to provide? Or do you believe Fire is still too powerful because of Kinetics?
How about adding an Immobilize to the Imps or a small version of Burn?
they have only one attack to cycle, I don't see a real problem w/ that unless for some unknown reason after they use their brawl, they stop attacking period.
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they have only one attack to cycle, I don't see a real problem w/ that unless for some unknown reason after they use their brawl, they stop attacking period.
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I believe in this case their DPS will now go down since I can no longer Speed Boost them for a recharge effect whereas other Pets such as Stoney or Fly Trap will at least maintain DPS because they are using other powers. And it does not necessarily have to be DPS but just effectiveness, such as Stoney using Stone Fist more often thus more chances of a stun. Imps do not have any of that to fall back on.
Wasn't this targeted at a power like Lightning Storm? Doesn't LS have one attack? Wasn't one of the issues that it was doing too much damage? Given this, how are Imps different? i.e. How are Imps avoiding the hit to DPS when Lightning Storm is not? That would not make sense.
Even with just one attack to cycle through does anyone know if they will lose DPS with this change because my Speed Boost is no longer as effective?
I'm just trying to figure out how everyone says this is a beneficial change. Is it really for Imps or did they just get caught in the shotgun blast fix and considered a casualty? If that is the way it is, I wish someone would just say it so I can move on and deal with it. Otherwise, I will need to start providing arguments for giving them an additional attack.
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Which ones? The only one I can think of that might be there would be Warshades, but their pet requires you kill things first, as well. Which is unique.
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You can have out multiple Gun Drones.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.