All you DOOOOM sayers, listen up. (PvP Population)
By
15thBarrier,
Posted on: 2009-01-08 22:02 in Everything about PvP
[ QUOTE ]
I know what you are getting at.
Took a friend into WB to show them how to launch a missle.
Checked the zone and it was just us. (Could have been a hidden or two lurking)
Anyway, showed them the way to the tunnels and down to a scientist. On the way back up bumped into a Veat Soldier (pretty sure he only saw me), checked zone population again, paused to see what they would do, ran past me and down the ramp, no prob I thought.
Showed friend to the way point, went back to the scientists. In that time he'd called in friends, a corrupter, a brute, himself (soldier) and a Dom. Now I didn't expect to win this gank fight, but gave my friend enough time to get away.
Went to the Hospital and rechecked zone pop. sure enough they were all there. Went back to my friend and they were fighting the corrupter. Then I saw my friend's toon running slow motion sideways on the one spot, it wasn't a mez they'd got dc'd map served.
So I took up the fight, it was a good fight with them. I won and then the Soldier showed up and fought me toe to toe after a stealth strike on me, but he was losing, suddenly they started kiting (no porb with that valid defence to a scrapper) then the brute showed up with the Dom. and the soilder rejoined the gank. Then all but the corrupter (the one that fight me to the last) ganked the dc'd toon. The corrupter even said "I think they've dc'd" yeah there is a challenge.
Now I know its a PvP zone, no issue with that. The soldier attempted a taunt for the code piece that they'd got off my friend, I laughed at him, told him that he couldn't win and needed his friends to gank me. His response? "I'll fight you anywhere 1 vs 1 but not here."????
Needless to say I wished them happy ganking and left, no point staying. I sent a tell to the corrupter complimenting him on having the balls to stay and fight, not running and waiting till backup arrived.
So to all the "Lrn2pvp"/gankers. You aren't helping the pvp cause.
There is no skill in getting 3+ toons and pounding 1 toon into the ground again and again.
There is no chance for said toon to "Lrn2pvp" in that situation and you'll find yourselves in a empty zone.
So don't complain when pvp "dies" cause you reaped what you sowed.
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You just described WHAT PVP IS. If you don't like what occured, then you will not enjoy pvp, regardless of what the devs do. PVP is competition - in competition nobody is equal and everyone looks for advantages to defeat opponents. Nobody likes to lose and nobody likes to be disadvantaged, but sometimes that is going to happen. And when you play against other players, the other player will not always be some really nice buddy, sometimes it will be a cocky, trash-talking jerk. That's the reality of ANY person vs person competition.
Competitive people get this, but obviously many people do not. The inexperienced and unskilled go into these zones and get destroyed. People who really want to compete will try to improve or try to fix truly broken parts of the actual game mechanics, while others simply demand instant equality.
The devs incorrectly tried to appease the latter, something that is really impossible to do. It's impossible to create equality in a game with so many different at's, powers, levels and enhancements, not to mention differing skill and experience levels of the players themselves. The result is similar levels of imbalance, and in some cases even more broken and ridiculous ones. Spirit shark and flurry? Really? LOL.
And how do you stop people from teaming up on other players, or better players from targeting obviously weak ones? You can't. Attacking the weak link is a common practice in any competitive endeavor. If you're the one getting 'ganked', you need to get stronger or get more allies, it's really that simple.
Trashtalking? It's not my thing, but in all the competitive situations I've been in, I've never seen it absent in any of them, lol. In most situations, you just have to deal with it our turn it to your advantage. In COH, you can CLOSE YOUR CHAT WINDOW, lol. If some twit on a computer saying bad things about your mama upsets you too much, maybe competition just isn't your thing.
The old pvp just needed a few tweaks here and there, but instead the devs tried to appease the non-competitive folks by completely changing the game, in effect hurting the core audience of pvp while attracting virtually no new audience.
The oddest move I see coming is the inclusion of pvp IO's after they just got done limiting their effectiveness. It's also sad to see the devs lack of response to the almost universal disdain of the new pvp system, and what appears to be either stubborness, cluelessness or just disinterest in what the pvp audience really wants.
If I had a say, I'd revert the changes and make the pvp game play more like the pve one (tanks would be tanks, spirit shark and flurry would not be uber, etc), make some tweaks to bring weaker at's and powers/powersets up to pvp viability on the go, while adding rewards and new objectives to bring new players in.
Hello. As long as someone /necromancied this thread... a quick comment.
There's the usual STFO or GTFO being thrown around here and there, but there's something I don't get. All the focus seems to be on what the OTHER SIDE is doing.
They're the enemy. They're going to be jerks. Even if they're not really jerks, when they see an easy kill they will think "1 2 5 5 3" or whatever their chain is... NOT "hmm, maybe this guy is new and i shouldn't gank him 6 times in a row, cause that really get me noth-" cause by this time in the thought, the thinker himself has been ganked 
.
What i don't see, and what i have been waiting to see, is people addressing the behaviour of THEIR OWN side.
It's pretty common for a premade, even with space avail, not to invite any "noobs" to the team, leaving a new person wandering around confuzzled. It's pretty UNcommon for anyone to spend a second to give advice, or a warning, or even much of a friendly hello, to people they don't know. The "uber pvpers" are a hardened, bitter lot at this point, and the pvers are pretty dismissive and defensive. Very little communication is happening.
If you want pvp to improve, teach people how to do it. Not your SGmates, not your RL friends; maybe the guy who just got ganked 3 times in a row is a good place to start. Offer some advice.
And i mean ADVICE, not "lol noob nice gimped toon go back to pve," ffs.
Maybe then you will actually see some improvement.
As for worrying about how the other side behaves...? Fugeddaboudit. Take care of your own... on both sides. And things might get better. And more people might be interested. And you might even *gasp* meet a couple cool people. It could happen....
Here's my sooper sekrit method:
- toggle up and attack like a madman, click buttons a lot too.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
You speak like there was never, ever, ever any events run to introduce people to PvP. Hell, on Triumph, I was one of the more disliked people, and I still took an entire friday night along with Ohmzy to teach two new people to PvP.
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You speak like there was never, ever, ever any events run to introduce people to PvP. Hell, on Triumph, I was one of the more disliked people, and I still took an entire friday night along with Ohmzy to teach two new people to PvP.
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You speak like many people on a forum do - including myself - when they feel strongly about something: respond to a general observation with "That doesn't apply to me, so i am offended and/or your point is invalid!"
Which is all part of my point. Less impassioned reflex responses, more thought.
edit: hmm, i seem to follow the slax method of pvp, tho i'd be willing to bet his powerset / enh choices are more informed than mine
But XxEshxX has a point.
When I was a very small noob, I was given a leg up. Admittedly it was after I tried several times unsuccessfully, and then asked for help. After i graduated to senior noob, I also helped others.
Here's an observation for you. If a noob's first reaction to being defeated is to whine in broadcast, do you want to help him or her? There are jerks everywhere, but I've found most pvpers are actually pretty cool about sharing their expertise if you try first and ask nicely.
Honestly, if the developers really wanted to boost interest in pvp they'd offer to go into an arena event or a zone, like they offered to run a tf during one of the auctions. Heck, you might even get some of the crowd that left if you gave them a chance to paste Castle and Positron up against a wall.
It seems to me that Castle and Positron are more likely to be able to fit a 10 minute arena match into their schedules than a task force.
Well at least the PvP IO's should help a bit, now people can go into PvP and expect to gain something for their characters instead of it being a purely masturbatory* experience (Though admittedly that does describe the game as a whole >_>
* Don't flame me, I just mean that as a way to describe something you do for no other reason than the pure pleasure of it.**
** Yes I'm aware of the hiprocracy [SP? Hippocracy a government made of hippo's?]
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
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edit: hmm, i seem to follow the slax method of pvp, tho i'd be willing to bet his powerset / enh choices are more informed than mine
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Some are, some are more goofy and SO'd but fun builds.
Ran a 5 man in RV last night heroside. When more of dUmb showed on heroes my entire team logged and brought villains. One of our team had never PvP'd before. A good time was had by all. Still think the i13 changes are retarded and lolz me on a stalker.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
[ QUOTE ]
But XxEshxX has a point.
When I was a very small noob, I was given a leg up. Admittedly it was after I tried several times unsuccessfully, and then asked for help. After i graduated to senior noob, I also helped others.
Here's an observation for you. If a noob's first reaction to being defeated is to whine in broadcast, do you want to help him or her? There are jerks everywhere, but I've found most pvpers are actually pretty cool about sharing their expertise if you try first and ask nicely.
Honestly, if the developers really wanted to boost interest in pvp they'd offer to go into an arena event or a zone, like they offered to run a tf during one of the auctions. Heck, you might even get some of the crowd that left if you gave them a chance to paste Castle and Positron up against a wall.
It seems to me that Castle and Positron are more likely to be able to fit a 10 minute arena match into their schedules than a task force.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just have Castle and Posi go to WB.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Jake and Esh both have a point. The pvp events you describe would be brilliant, too.
Yeah, sometimes i respond in incendiary mode to someone being a git in chan, tho it really gets me nothing. Sometimes, recognizing that someone's probably just frustrated and lolztyping when they should chill a second helps deal with them or calm them down.
Of course, sometimes they just turn out to be a git . Don't let it get to you, or stop you from talking to the next guy, i guess is all i can hope to remember.
edit:
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Just have Castle and Posi go to WB.
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What, teamed? 
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Ok, took a new build to WB on Freedom today to test a few things.
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Haha I laughed hard son! 
Aight now lemme read the rest of the OP. 
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Defeated complainers have little credibility in PVP land, since they seem unwilling to slog up the road of pain that leads to respectable fighting ability, or to miss the harsh reality of the situation. So yes, your QQ made things worse. And as noted above, if chat PVP can get you spun up, your verbal adversary has gained game advantage by rattling you.
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I approve this message.
Seriously people....TAKE YOUR LUMPS!
Ganked?
Let me tell a lil bit about ganked... (seeing as it's happened/and still happens to me)
At 1st it's frustrating of course, your just getting your feet wet, and boom the toon you've learned to overcome all PvE obstacles with, is starring at a "go to hosp" button.
Most PvE'ers egos are fragile, so seeing their "ZOMG I can PWN AV's with No temps or insp" characters laid to waste in 3 seconds, is a bit traumatic.
Eventually getting ganked becomes more of a compliment. Once you've developed enough skill, it's the one of the only ways for a skilled player, to actually be killed/defeated.
And complaining? Sympathy? From PvP'ers? lol
PvP'ers are wolves. Wolves only run with other wolves. They only respect (to a degree) other wolves.
Why do we gank the new guy and not the "wolf" that's always here?
BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT IF THIS PERSON IS ANOTHER WOLF!
If it's not a wolf, then it doesn't belong here anyway, and needs to be put out of its misery.
There will be no weakening of the pack!
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PvP'ers are wolves. Wolves only run with other wolves. They only respect (to a degree) other wolves.
Why do we gank the new guy and not the "wolf" that's always here?
BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT IF THIS PERSON IS ANOTHER WOLF!
If it's not a wolf, then it doesn't belong here anyway, and needs to be put out of its misery.
There will be no weakening of the pack!
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This sir is so full of win I can't help but grin
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You speak like there was never, ever, ever any events run to introduce people to PvP. Hell, on Triumph, I was one of the more disliked people, and I still took an entire friday night along with Ohmzy to teach two new people to PvP.
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<---Ohmzy
and we still attempt to tell/teach the new to pvp people or the people getting ganked over and over or w/e you want to call them. If we have some room on a team we invite them and have even given them our vent info. Then we talk about builds and/or strategies or whatever kind of help it seems they need. Of course a lot of the time people are hard set on their builds and dont want to hear about or let alone change it because it won't go with their theme but hopefully they still get somekind of help out of our info. Of course sometimes you get the people who dont want to listen to anything you have to say no matter how much good it will do them and they will continue to whine in broadcast. I encourage anyone that has questions about anything PvPwise to not be afraid to ask someone that PvP's regularly the question, more than likely you will get an answer, do with it what you will.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
Well guys, i'm out, been playing this game for 4 years. Too much has changed it's not the "girl" I met back then. I did mainly PvP in Siren's, some know me as Butterfly Kiss (the PFF Watcher) and Envious (the elusive stalker) but after being killed over and over today while hidden (max stealth) I know this game has lost any enjoyment for me. With the nerf to defense there's no sane reason to stay. Hey I almost made it to Issue 14. Good Luck, Have Fun... and see you guys on the Flip-side.
gl hf
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Well guys, i'm out, been playing this game for 4 years. Too much has changed it's not the "girl" I met back then. I did mainly PvP in Siren's, some know me as Butterfly Kiss (the PFF Watcher) and Envious (the elusive stalker) but after being killed over and over today while hidden (max stealth) I know this game has lost any enjoyment for me. With the nerf to defense there's no sane reason to stay. Hey I almost made it to Issue 14. Good Luck, Have Fun... and see you guys on the Flip-side.
[/ QUOTE ]Oh I know, what's up with that? My main Stalker has 1143 max stealth from hide, IO and stealth and people in RV jumps down at me and immediately attacks me as if they saw me from 100ft away or something, I'm thinking stealth also gets DR'd.
I used to pvp regularily in SC as well before my break last year, I enjoyed zone pvp from i5 to i11 and now I don't like pvp after i13 and nor do most people that I know.
Someone else in another thread said that debuffs will be king and defense will be gone out the window in i14... sounds fun, not.
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Well guys, i'm out, been playing this game for 4 years. Too much has changed it's not the "girl" I met back then. I did mainly PvP in Siren's, some know me as Butterfly Kiss (the PFF Watcher) and Envious (the elusive stalker) but after being killed over and over today while hidden (max stealth) I know this game has lost any enjoyment for me. With the nerf to defense there's no sane reason to stay. Hey I almost made it to Issue 14. Good Luck, Have Fun... and see you guys on the Flip-side.
[/ QUOTE ]Oh I know, what's up with that? My main Stalker has 1143 max stealth from hide, IO and stealth and people in RV jumps down at me and immediately attacks me as if they saw me from 100ft away or something, I'm thinking stealth also gets DR'd.
I used to pvp regularily in SC as well before my break last year, I enjoyed zone pvp from i5 to i11 and now I don't like pvp after i13 and nor do most people that I know.
Someone else in another thread said that debuffs will be king and defense will be gone out the window in i14... sounds fun, not.
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it does when you have a toon arsenal like mine.
guess my rad/ice defender wasn't a waste after all.
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Well guys, i'm out, been playing this game for 4 years. Too much has changed it's not the "girl" I met back then. I did mainly PvP in Siren's, some know me as Butterfly Kiss (the PFF Watcher) and Envious (the elusive stalker) but after being killed over and over today while hidden (max stealth) I know this game has lost any enjoyment for me. With the nerf to defense there's no sane reason to stay. Hey I almost made it to Issue 14. Good Luck, Have Fun... and see you guys on the Flip-side.
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Lol, I was the blaster pew pew'ing you in SC. You kept getting killed while hidden because you kept coming within range of the SD tanker's AAO, which suppresses Stealth and Stealth IO, at that point we were able to see you with just Tactics + Perc IO.
hai krytical.
-phrozen sky.
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Well guys, i'm out, been playing this game for 4 years. Too much has changed it's not the "girl" I met back then. I did mainly PvP in Siren's, some know me as Butterfly Kiss (the PFF Watcher) and Envious (the elusive stalker) but after being killed over and over today while hidden (max stealth) I know this game has lost any enjoyment for me. With the nerf to defense there's no sane reason to stay. Hey I almost made it to Issue 14. Good Luck, Have Fun... and see you guys on the Flip-side.
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LOL...buh bye. Even when I get destroyed in PvP...I can tell if the player that destroyed me is actually any good or are hiding their lack of skills behind fotm builds. How do I know this? Because I know that on a mission or TF they underperform when it counts. And I've still never met a scrapper that was better than Test Model 2. He is still the best /regen scrapper I've ever seen.
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Oh I know, what's up with that? My main Stalker has 1143 max stealth from hide, IO and stealth and people in RV jumps down at me and immediately attacks me as if they saw me from 100ft away or something, I'm thinking stealth also gets DR'd.
I used to pvp regularily in SC as well before my break last year, I enjoyed zone pvp from i5 to i11 and now I don't like pvp after i13 and nor do most people that I know.
Someone else in another thread said that debuffs will be king and defense will be gone out the window in i14... sounds fun, not.
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HAHAHA every time I PvP in Siren's Call, I always see Macho Man pwning with his stalker.
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Lol, I was the blaster pew pew'ing you in SC. You kept getting killed while hidden because you kept coming within range of the SD tanker's AAO, which suppresses Stealth and Stealth IO, at that point we were able to see you with just Tactics + Perc IO.
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Hehe and I was on that team as well.
They should change PvP to TvT, Wait you dont get the TvT Team v' Team cuz PvP is Peer v's Peer Or Player v's Player
Not that i care Heroes never team anyway thats why they cry about ganking, O and to bad about widows and banes,Just saying not that i care, I dont mine being ganked or even killed its something diffrent, Only thing i dont like is base camping the exit to the pvp zone when your trying to leave,"Photo of it hope'n for the 3 day ban for camping in a spot u are not to be in"
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I try to be nice to everybody, but I don't particularly like the whiny willpower villains who cry that I should "stand and fight."
Hi, I am a regen scrapper. Hopping out of reach and popping reactive abilities while disabling your Rise to the Challenge is my game. Deal with it.
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We're in agreement there- play to your strengths and your opponent's weaknesses.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit